Are moderators allowed to proactively regulate content?

Daen·Aug 27, 2014·10 votes·5,600 views

Title. Are moderators able to use their judgement to deal with threads, or are they restricted to the voting system and player reports?

In the picture attached, there are two threads (on Hot sorting's first page) that clearly break the following rule:

Don’t be a jerk

We’re aiming for the most sportsmanlike gaming community in the world, in-game and out. Just because you’re anonymous doesn't give you a license to be an asshat. Posts that walk over the line will be deleted. Repeat offenders may be permanently kicked out.

Moderators will take action against the following:

Players posting content that would seen as extremely offensive to others Players attacking an individual or group in a way that could be considered severe Players making baseless complaints or contesting private matters that isn't relevant to an active discussion

One of them has been up for 18 hours and has almost 90 comments, most of which are outright against the OP's post. I think it's awesome how fast the moderators are able to react to player reports, but I have to wonder whether they rely exclusively on said reports or if they are able to be somewhat autonomous.

TL;DR, are moderators allowed to take initiative on removing posts, or do they rely on reports? Either way is fine, I'm just curious.

15 Comments

PendragonAug 28, 20148 votes

I deleted that first one around the same time you posted this.

The second one is more of a tossup, I probably would have killed it personally if I saw it early in its life.

we have to get better at snagging the more obvious ones before we can improve at the ones that are more grey though.

mysticalsoapAug 28, 20142 votes

If it's a tossup would you consult someone else before making a final decision?

PendragonAug 28, 20146 votes

Depends on lots of factors - how close of a call is it, how active is it, do I have someone readily available (maybe I'm reading from my phone at 3 AM), etc

Lots of it is subjective though. The subjectivity in my mind is what can often separate good communities from great communities. Making those hard choices sometimes is what makes you authentic, unique, special.

The problem is that sometimes that's not fair right? In my view if you strive for absolute fairness you sacrifice a lot. The DMV is really fair

DaenAug 28, 20141 votes

The DMV is really fair

I probably would have killed it personally if I saw it early in its life.

If it's something you would have killed early on, why does it become something that shouldn't be killed later? The content of the offending post doesn't change, it's still very clearly not conducive to healthy conversation.

Lots of it is subjective though. The subjectivity in my mind is what can often separate good communities from great communities.

As far as subjectivity is concerned, the subject matter of that particular post is a known troll/spam comment on GD. Is that the kind of thing we want to consider legitimate discussion on the Boards?

how active is it

I have to ask; why is this a factor? If it's clearly a post that should be removed, should activity on said thread negate that?

mysticalsoapAug 28, 20142 votes

If good discussion is going on why should the original post affect that discussion?

BabySledgeAug 28, 20144 votes

Good discussion can always be moved to a different thread, under a much less antagonistic heading. I'm all for healthy debates and discussions between players, but when it's wrapped up in condescension and rudeness, it negates any positive effects that can be pulled from said thread.

Plus letting such negative threads exist without action can basically be considered an endorsement.

PryotraAug 28, 20142 votes

They don't "move" anything, they tell us to restart from scratch in another spot. Killing the thread would effectively kill all conversation within it.

PendragonAug 28, 20143 votes

The question I have actually is - is there a context in which nonsense spam is legitimate discussion? I think one thing we're hoping to do really well on the boards here is compartmentalizing things.

There are a bunch of people who like to engage in those types of discussions. In my perfect world - the rest of us just don't have to see or know about them right?

I have to ask; why is this a factor? If it's clearly a post that should be removed, should activity on said thread negate that?

It's really about - what is the impact that a removal is going to have. Sometimes it's better for overall health to let something die naturally than to kill it and have the ripple effect generate even more nonsense than the original OP.

DaenAug 28, 20141 votes

There are a bunch of people who like to engage in those types of discussions. In my perfect world - the rest of us just don't have to see or know about them right?

I was able to see and know about it by finding it listed as one of the most popular threads on a board.

I understand that many people like the drama of going against really inflammatory or ignorant comments, but is that actually something we want to be highly visible to anyone looking on a given board? Does a discussion of "intentionally inflammatory comment > community outrage/rebuke" have enough merit to warrant it being near the top?

Sometimes it's better for overall health to let something die naturally than to kill it and have the ripple effect generate even more nonsense than the original OP.

Isn't the opposite true as well? The thread is dying naturally, but there has been a ripple effect of nonsense about the fact it hasn't been killed.

As far as I'm aware, comments that are spam, intentionally inflammatory, and directly condescending are reportable within the client. Why is it that this sort of content is not only allowed on the Boards but essentially supported, particularly when these comments directly conflict with the Universal Rules?

PendragonAug 28, 20142 votes

As far as I'm aware, comments that are spam, intentionally inflammatory, and directly condescending are reportable within the client. Why is it that this sort of content is not only allowed on the Boards but essentially supported, particularly when these comments directly conflict with the Universal Rules?

I really don't think it's allowed. Right now we're developing the ability to consistently and reliably address it. Our coverage overall is good - and we address most bad or reported posts pretty quickly. When some slip through like these - the team gets together and has conversations about what needs to be done to prevent it in the future, etc.

It's getting better

PryotraAug 28, 20145 votes

I think the moderation team needs new management. Not to rag on Tamat, but he has been told numerous times that this simply won't cut it, since he first mentioned the Idea of ghost mods. Tamat is a great guy, but he simply isn't suited for moderation. Similar to how Kitae is a great person, just not suited towards Lore. His version of Moderation, while idealistic, is frankly not effective with what the boards are facing. It might have worked if GD hadn't been neglected for over a year, but that time is sooooo far behind us now, I think we can all admit that there is something that needs mutual acknowledgement from both sides of the table. There is a monster in the room, and everyone has helped create it. Now we either live with it, or work together to put it down.

This is not even the filth of GD, this is 2 threads. Imagine this level of garbage posting, but at a rate of... How fast did GD move again? I think you see how having "ghost mods" who can't be easily called will not work with how the boards are built, nor with how bad the community has become due to years of neglect. This isn't even the full force of the circle jerk either. Remember when posting pr0n was a thing? Before I had to wipe my drive, I had come across over 10 GB of raw pr0n on GD. I know, because every image I saved in a folder to make some attempt to track just how much pr0n you were hosting on your forums. Imagine if that became a thing again. Seriously, consider it. It wouldn't take much to hide, and it isn't even like you host the images anymore. In fact, I can think of about 20 abuse scenarios right now that don't even require me to put my mind to the matter.

I'm not surprised this is an issue. This leddit style has always catered to the very worst part of GD, the Circlejerk. Now that GD went down for an extended period, and this is the forums that Riot is advertising, the filth is slowly moving over here. The moderation team has tied their own hands with dumb policies, assuming that the "community oriented approach" of reddit would save the Boards. In reality, it only empowered the circle jerk, to levels that no one can stop without severe overuse of power from the mods. I mean, now that the ball is rolling in those threads, it would be very bad to close all that discussion, right? Moving? Nope, mods don't do that here! (I hope you are starting to see the foolishness of all this.)

The moderation team needs to come to the table at this point. Hiding them has proven ineffective, and if immediate action isn't taken, this brainchild of yours will become GD 2.0. There have been many of us who have offered help, either by joining the ranks or working together on a community level. We have been shunned, and now our forewarning has been proven to hold weight. I am still willing to help, but I'm not going to pretend I have the magic bullet that can kill this beast. Like any game of league, it's going to take a team effort to win, between Riot and the community. And that means Riot needs to sit down with players, and really talk it out, and use that to fuel the restructuring (yes, it's gonna take some changing at that level) to bring this neglected community back to the light.

Will you be like Tamat, and turn a deaf ear, or will you be like BaconHawk, and sit down to have a chat with us? The choice is yours. I spent alot of time trying to be civil, and now I'm just being honest. My intention wasn't to be hostile, but just to be upfront. I hope I didn't offend, but I also hope you see where we are.

TheVoiceofExileAug 28, 20142 votes

I think moderators should be able to exercise instant powers on things of that nature. However it should go to a sort of "double check" pool in which another moderator has to approve to remove the thread forever. Something of that nature so that these kind of threads don't persist for long.

mysticalsoapAug 28, 20142 votes

Don't cross out my name I worked really hard on that post and deserve credit. Also I don't think the post is that bad to be honest. Borderline but not really breaking the rules.

FlintfallAug 28, 20141 votes

Judging from my past history (one small misstep on my part, I learned my lesson), they follow a set of guidelines and if anyone breaks those they can just remove the thread.