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Why isn't racism against whites considered toxic by Riot Games?

LaceUp23··9 votes·2,913 views

Edit: I'm going to try and ask rito is a support ticket lol. Let's shall be interesting! Will keep you guys updated.

Mr. rito guy posted about our new boards profanity filter. Here is the list that he gave:

beaner n1gger nigger nigg3r n1gg3r nigg@ nigga niqqa n1qqa n1qq4 n1qq@ niqq4 niqq@ n1gg@ n1gga ching chong chinaman chink tranny sand nigger cunt faget f@get f4get fag3t f@g3t f4g3t fag f@g f4g fgt f@gget fagget f@ggit fagit f@g1t f4g1t fag1t faggit faggot f@ggot fagg0t f@gg0t f4ggot f4gg0t gook g00k go0k g0ok spick

Notice that there are not any hate speech words against whites on here, such as cracker or honkey. I'm just confused as to why rito thinks it's ok to be toxic and racist towards whites but not other races? The bottom line is that these words mean the exact same thing as racial slurs against other races. There is no difference. The are all based off of racial hate.

54 Comments

Deep Terror Nami6 votes

Because there's no hate speech against white people that people think is offensive.

Twisted Tea3 votes

This, right here. It's impossible to take being called a racial white-people slur seriously.

Crowe Stalker1 votes

I legit don't understand how being called a Cracker is being called a Racial Slur. Frankly, I'd find the term Waffle more offensive :0

redniwediS3 votes

Just based on definition cracker is a racial slur, however no one in their right mind would take offense to it. In all honesty someone who uses it seriously is basically insulting themselves.

LaceUp231 votes

Only if it's blue.

LaceUp232 votes

Whether you personally take offense to it or not doesn't matter. It is still a word that is used as hate speech towards a race. Period.

Angry Monster3 votes

So the problem with cracker is that it is a food item. When i was growing up (80s kid) i had no context when i heard black comedians talk about crackers. I never followed black culture; and being called a saltine was just werid, thought it had to do with skin color. I had to look up what it meant for a black person to say it. I still get a laugh when i hear the term though.

I am going to say it is sorta proof that certain communities are better about letting things go. I was never taught racist names were by my parents. Half of what i learned actually came from school, history books, the half from the world refusing to let go.

Why bother empowering those people that want to bring food to a fight?

TNHA Baritone1 votes

i know you arent trying to, but your comment sounds very accusatory to black people as if african americans only say it

LaceUp232 votes

Yeah, and faggot means a bundle of sticks.

Vekkna1 votes

True! Fun fact: it's an insult because said bundle of sticks is to be set on fire and was initially used as a threat on a gay man's life. Same reason gay men are/were called "flamers." In other words, its derogatory nature has roots in lynching by immolation.

redniwediS1 votes

I don't know if I'd call that fact fun, but it's definitely informative!

blkKalameet1 votes

Or a cigarette.

The point about that is that the mean of words change with time depending on the cultural belief of the word, and in some cases if said word invokes a desired reaction against the target audience and catches hold.

The tearms "cracker" and "honkey" have simply never actually gained a negative stigmata in association with being an insult. They are seem as primarily as comical in nature by those address as such, and thus never seem as problematic.

It becomes even more interesting to consider the origin of the phrases.

"Cracker" originated from either a turm used for slave driveres (this even being quoted from Darwin's wrightings), or as a slang turm for crack addicts. While "honkey" is possibly a derogative of "hunkie" (a slur for east- European imagrents), or may have started as a slang turm for people who would honk there car horn at prostitutes to get there attention.
So with these words it entirely unclear if the meaning behind them is at all racist to begin with, and if they are they have simply never managed to gain momentum as such.

SwapShadows3 votes

As you grow up you realize that it's not racist when it's not a white person.

Also you'll realize every problem is blamed on white people

"dropped my pencil, god damn white people"

Archon X2 votes

honkey and cracker are not hate speech. I'm white I would know.

LaceUp237 votes

Please tell me what the difference between a black calling a white a honkey and a white calling a black a nigga would be. I'll wait.

redniwediS1 votes

Our societal view is the difference. The words may, by definition, be just as bad as one another, but one is considered offensive where as the other might as well only be a joke.

It's a much larger problem, and can't really be used to place blame on Riot.

LaceUp232 votes

But I can because they are choosing to say that racism against blacks is bad, but racism against whites is ok.

redniwediS2 votes

They have said nothing of the sort. At most they have implied that they are on the side of the majority in thinking that only some racial slurs are still offensive.

Do not put words in their mouth, it weakens your argument.

LaceUp231 votes

By not banning racist words against whites they kind of are saying it's fine to use them.

redniwediS1 votes

The key here is "kind of". They did not outright say it, which was your original claim.

We should pressure them to cover all slurs equally, but until they say no we can't even remotely support the claim that they think "racism against whites is ok".

Archon X3 votes

When have lynch mobs of blacks hunted down whites while calling them crackers? When have blacks enslaved whites and referred to them disparagingly as honkeys?

LaceUp235 votes

Wait wait wait. So because black people were slaves a long long time ago, they can't be racist?

Also, there are plenty of cases of blacks rioting to kill whites based solely on race. Your argument is invalid.

redniwediS2 votes

I have to side with you on this one. Archon's reasoning is completely ridiculous.

Archon X1 votes

{quoted}

Because slurs are/were used to reinforce social oppression and reinforce underclasses of minorities. White people have not been oppressed or forced into an underclass on the basis of race, therefore racial insults against white people have no clout or sting or stigma.

redniwediS2 votes

A derogatory term is a derogatory term regardless of historical context. Equality is about all things being equal, not one being favored due to past injustices, or one not being favored due to no past injustices.

I, for one, would rather see Riot support equality here.

LaceUp231 votes

I can't apply for the african american scholarship because I'm white. Last time I checked there was no Caucasian only scholarship. #whitelivesmatter

LaceUp231 votes

No, I can't apply for that by being white. I would be able to apply for that if I were Italian, but I'm not. Not exactly the same thingy broski. I realize that my post wasn't geared for critical thinkers, though. So I'm sorry that you misinterpreted the comment. I shall try again. I am unaware of a scholarship that's only requirement is being white (besides GPA stuff obviously lol).

Vekkna2 votes

Because slurs are/were used to reinforce social oppression and reinforce underclasses of minorities. White people have not been oppressed or forced into an underclass on the basis of race, therefore racial insults against white people have no clout or sting or stigma.

LaceUp231 votes

There is no social oppression against blacks anymore. So does that mean the words aren't offensive anymore?

Sniper 01 votes

{quoted}

Please tell me what the difference between a black calling a white a honkey and a white calling a black a nigga would be. I'll wait.

Cracker or honkey doesn't give the same implication of hate.

LaceUp231 votes

Yeah, it does.

Sniper 01 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, it does.

Explain how? How is a white individual being oppressed when they are called a cracker or a honkey? You're either a troll or the most ignorant individual I've spoken to on these forums yet.

The n-word was a term used by slave owners to describe their black slaves. Cracker was a term used for the slave owners.... these words are not equivocal in the level of hate....

LaceUp231 votes

How is a white individual being oppressed when they are called a cracker or a honkey?

How is a black individual being oppressed when they are called a nigger? They aren't. So again, you are saying blacks can't be racist because they were once slaves. That is the most idiotic argument I've heard. There are PLENTY of gangs that say things like, "man, let's go kill these honkeys". Pretty sure that is a high level of hate.

TeemoJenkins2 votes

Politics and religion... two things I don't get into with others... and this is absolutely political.

redniwediS1 votes

It is, but it also directly relates to Riot's policy changes. If we keep things clean maybe we can get a legitimate discussion out of it before it's locked.

LaceUp231 votes

There should be no reason whatsoever to close this thread lol.

warpenguin5552 votes

if this gets took down due to swear words i will laugh so hard

Blastermine2 votes

OP, the answer is because no one cares.

LaceUp231 votes

I care :D

Reaper Soraka1 votes

Ha! Look at this crazy cracka thinking honkeys can be victims of racism.

Honestly, I've never found those words to be offensive, but it does refer to a skin color. I don't know if they should be censored or not... Nigga is a reference to someone's skin color, and usually isn't considered negative. So it appears they should be censored as well, judging by Riots current list.

LaceUp231 votes

It doesn't just refer to skin color, it does so it a hateful way. The same as nigger does to blacks. I don't see the difference here.

Reaper Soraka1 votes

I don't really see how it is in a hateful way, the person sounds like they're just trying to describe who they're talking about. It is in a poor way/taste though.

Edit: Such a sensitive topic, I was downvoted! lol

powerbats1 votes

{quoted}

I don't really see how it is in a hateful way, the person sounds like they're just trying to describe who they're talking about. It is in a poor way/taste though.

Edit: Such a sensitive topic, I was downvoted! lol

Hate speech/racism discussions along with politics and religion are some of the more polarizing and nasty ones around. Since even when you get a good discussion going the trolls come out of the woodwork.

LaceUp231 votes

What I'm saying is that if rito bans certain words for being hateful against a race, why shouldn't they ban words that are hateful against a difference race?

powerbats1 votes

Cracker when used as an insult is considered an offensive term, while fa***t is actually a historical term referring to railroad ties back in the late 1800's early 1900's. It wasn't really used widespread as a negative term until the late 50's early 60's and later.

Here's some historical definitions for those interested since it was also used as far back as 1590 for other definitions. Hopefully this clears up some misconceptions about it.

late 13c., "bundle of twigs bound up," also fagald, faggald, from Old French fagot "bundle of sticks" (13c.), of uncertain origin, probably from Italian faggotto "bundle of sticks," diminutive of Vulgar Latin *facus, from Latin fascis "bundle of wood" (see fasces).

Especially used for burning heretics (emblematic of this from 1550s), so that phrase fire and faggot was used to indicate "punishment of a heretic." Heretics who recanted were required to wear an embroidered figure of a faggot on the sleeve as an emblem and reminder of what they deserved.

"male homosexual," 1914, American English slang, probably from earlier contemptuous term for "woman" (1590s), especially an old and unpleasant one, in reference to faggot (n.1) "bundle of sticks," as something awkward that has to be carried (compare baggage "worthless woman," 1590s). It may also be reinforced by Yiddish faygele "homosexual" (n.), literally "little bird." It also may have roots in British public school slang noun fag "a junior who does certain duties for a senior" (1785), with suggestions of "catamite," from fag. This also spun off a verb (see fag).

He [the prefect] used to fag me to blow the chapel organ for him. ["Boy's Own Paper," 1889] Other obsolete British senses of faggot were "man hired into military service merely to fill out the ranks at muster" (1700) and "vote manufactured for party purposes" (1817).

The explanation that male homosexuals were called faggots because they were burned at the stake as punishment is an etymological urban legend. Burning sometimes was a punishment meted out to homosexuals in Christian Europe (on the suggestion of the Biblical fate of Sodom and Gomorrah), but in England, where parliament had made homosexuality a capital offense in 1533, hanging was the method prescribed. Use of faggot in connection with public executions had long been obscure English historical trivia by the time the word began to be used for "male homosexual" in 20th century American slang, whereas the contemptuous slang word for "woman" (in common with the other possible sources or influences listed here) was in active use early 20c., by D.H. Lawrence and James Joyce, among others.

Another historical dissertation.

The term faggot or fagot, meaning bundle of sticks, shows up around 1300 in English. It almost certainly came from Old French, possibly going back to Greek phakelos. Since those bundles of sticks were mainly used for fires, it's not surprising that the term came to mean burning sticks. Then there was that nasty business in medieval times where heretics were burned at the stake. Some later cites indicate heretics who repented and were spared a fiery death had to wear a picture of a faggot on their sleeve to show what might have been their fate. But no print evidence exists that homosexuals were referred to as faggots before the twentieth century, with the origin definitely in the U.S., not Britain.

The British continued to use the words fag and faggot as nouns, verbs and adjectives right through the early 20th century, never applying it to homosexuals at any time. To fag or to be a fag was a common term in British schools from the late 1700s and referred to a lower classman who performed chores for upperclassmen. While this term was also in vogue at Harvard in the first half of the 19th century, it died out by the mid-1800s in the U.S., leaving it in use only in England. Nineteenth century Britons also heard "faggot" used in reference to an ill-tempered woman, i.e., a ball-buster, a battleaxe, a shrew. That meaning of the term continued into the early 20th century, and the usage was gradually applied to children as well as women. The relationship, if any, between faggot-as-bundle-of-sticks and faggot-as-shrewish-woman is unknown.

The first known published use of the word faggot or fag to refer to a male homosexual appeared in 1914 in the U.S. It referred to a homosexual ball where the men were dressed in drag and called them "fagots (sissies)." Ernest Hemingway, in The Sun Also Rises (1926), included the line, "You're a hell of a good guy, and I'm fonder of you than anybody on earth. I couldn't tell you that in New York. It'd mean I was a faggot." A 1921 cite says, "Androgynes [are] known as 'fairies,' 'fags,' or 'brownies.'"

George Chauncey, in his excellent 1994 work Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World, 1890-1940, says that the terms fairy, faggot, and queen were used by homosexuals to refer to men who were ostentatiously effeminate. Homosexuals who were not as showy referred to themselves as "queer" in the first decades of the 20th century. But the general public mainly called homosexuals "fairies." If you were in London in the 1920s through the 1940s and used the term "fag," the man in the street might have offered you a cigarette, and quite possibly that would have been the case with many Americans at the time.

All of this does little to answer your original question: How did a bundle of sticks come to mean a homosexual male? Most likely it didn't. Here we'll have to go to theory. Since I'm writing this, mine will have to do.

We notice with some words a progression of usage that morphs along the lines of "woman/girl" > "woman/girl/child" > "effeminate male" > "homosexual male." The word fairy is a good example. "Faggot" in the sense of an ill-tempered woman is another. I independently came to that conclusion while answering a general question on the SDMB. But, in a post to the American Dialect Society mailing list, Dr. Laurence Horn, professor of linguistics at Yale University, posted the progression that I just used (he did it much more succinctly than I could). Still unexplained is how a Britishism jumped the ocean in a short period of time to acquire a new meaning in the U.S. Perhaps it was an independent formation. Words happen.

As a last thought, a current notion holds that the Yiddish word faygeleh, "little bird," might have been the source, but lacks evidence other than the claim that the word was commonly used in Yiddish prior to WWII to indicate a homosexual. With the digitizing of publications allowing searching never before possible, perhaps some further scholarship will be forthcoming to help solve the mystery.

Resources: Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, edited by J. E. Lighter, New York, 1994-1997.

— samclem

LaceUp231 votes

You most definitely need a too long didn't read lol.

Baunjo1 votes

Because only white people can be racist, all the other races are above reproach

Meep Man1 votes

Because I don't find any "white person insult" thrown my way to be very offensive. I mean, sure, ban names and people who really go far with it, but I haven't been offended by being called a cracker before.

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