[Idea] Demographics

Sir ArmaMalum·Jul 3, 2014·3 votes·705 views

http://i.imgur.com/4XneLQ4.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/WLLrwOL.jpg?1

Hey, so after my own learning (and somewhat trying) experience of the very basics of statistics and demographic data, I've come to realize how weak the data is for the video game industry as a whole as compared to older, less electronically based industries. It's no one's fault really, just the nature of the beast when it comes to anonymous and worldwide communities.

Riot has been known as a frontier company with one of the largest active playerbases in the world. Wouldn't it make sense for that same company to start tracking specific areas of a record setting, trending market? That being said I'm sure it's already being done in some form or fashion, but can we do this publicly where complete nonprofessionals like myself can both contribute and see the results?

So my idea is this: Have a PvP.net restricted, Riot Official, incentiveized, and public poll for the major areas like age, estimated hours player per week, what season they created their account, etc etc.

More specifically, have a public poll on the home site or forums (where one has to log-in with a LoL account) and provide a very, very small amount of RP (1-5?) for participation in any poll. No poll is without bias or risk of course, but I believe it would get a decent amount of statistical data out there as well as possibly showing some stereotype-breaking results.

Thoughts?

18 Comments

GundayMondayJul 3, 20142 votes

The ESA actually does a really good job with industry metrics. Check out this nice summary as an example: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2014.pdf

You can find some really good info if you know where to look :-)

EDIT: Apparently that link tries to attach the giant pdf. You can get to the same thing by clicking the link at the very bottom of this ESA site: http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp

Sir ArmaMalumJul 4, 20141 votes

Yup I had actually gone by here as well. I agree it's very detailed and very well done. Unfortunately the scope is simply too large for my purposes or any person's interest in a demographic of a specific MMO. Naturally that's in the jurisdiction of the game devs themselves and I don't expect the ESA to do that or anything :)

JiviraJul 3, 20141 votes

I like the general idea, so long as the public stuff is voluntary participation and declared at the start. (Aggregating data of course.)

Sir ArmaMalumJul 3, 20141 votes

Oh of course! No hidden data taking or forced surveys, those will just defeat themselves faster than you can blink, lol.

EMOFRATPARTYJul 3, 20141 votes

Data gathering is used as a way to prevent the error-margin in voluntary polls. Surely there is information being collected, but it's not always in a company's best interests to release such information.

Competitive advantage would likely be the largest factor of this, but numbers can also fluctuate the industry as a whole.

Sir ArmaMalumJul 4, 20141 votes

Understandable, I don't pretend to know the full implications of the information release. As long as there's an effort being made to track the info I'll be happy, it's a still young and, as you said, very changing playerbase and it would probably be a great benefit to get the changes recorded sooner rather than later

EMOFRATPARTYJul 4, 20141 votes

Cheers to that. But that's why you see companies like Facebook, Twitter, etc. mining a lot of data as a condition of the ToS or EULA -- it makes things so much easier for them.

Your posts are awesome, by the way.

Sir ArmaMalumJul 4, 20141 votes

Thank you! I'll admit when I sink my teeth into a huge subject like this upcoming SALT I get easily sidetracked with stuff like this, it's just plain interesting! lol

EMOFRATPARTYJul 4, 20141 votes

I definitely agree! I think you should hop on this one with me, I'm working on a long response right now:

http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/site-feedback/eEAE3sid-idea-player-council-eve-online-style

Sir ArmaMalumJul 4, 20141 votes

I am literally typing up a reply right now actually! lol, ya beat me to it though

Angry MonsterJul 5, 20141 votes

Why should Riot do this? Like literally what is this going to do for the company and therefore share holders? To do something like this takes man hours, this would be literally throwing money away since you are make it GNU.

I understand why people want Lyte to do peer review stuff, it is expected academic thing. Lyte makes claims and the only people that would be qualified to judge him are other scientists. People want a independent verification of claims being made.

The stuff you seem to be asking for is usually paid for. There are plenty of companies that do research like you are requesting but it is expensive. There is a reason why companies just do not random research or hand out the results.

Sir ArmaMalumJul 5, 20141 votes

Look at the big picture here. Riot has access to the largest active playerbase in the world during a time where entire generations are being brought up by the internet and the interactions they get from it. League has broken the 'Nerd in the basement' social stigma that most MMO's (like WoW) had before and has accumlated a larger targetable audience of young (primarily male) people. You want shareholders to be happy? How about the fact that the LCS got a sponsorship from Coca-cola instead of the superbowl because of League's more specialized primary audience?

For me personally the biggest reason is the history books. The internet's influence on the average person, especially American generations, is only going to increase, and League is in the best position right now to spearhead that influence from a sport angle. Besides the fact that I think a few people at Riot would like to do this just because it would be beneficial academically, it also really wouldn't be difficult or costly. the 1-5 RP a problem? Okay a 1-win IP boost per survey then, and making a survey in any website is super-easy. Hell, if they wanted to really do it quick they could just create a Google Form like I did.

As for the peer review on statistics, of course there will be people saying "this and this could be better", that's going to happen with any action Riot takes. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if someone told Ironstylus he could sneeze better if given the chance. But keeping any of these survey to a) require a PvP.net account, implying a league player b) be voluntary and low incentivized, decreasing the chance of false results (because there would be literally no point to, aside from trolling) and c) publicly displayed then is someone like me asked the question "How old is the average League player?" I could go find a relatively accurate answer. No, it wouldn't be every league player and therefore wouldn't be ideal, but trying to get a perfect scope on a survey is nigh impossible.

Angry MonsterJul 6, 20141 votes

I think you miss my point, Why should Riot pick up the bill for GNU information.

I think Riot should and does this research but that they kept is a secret marketing tool. They provide this information to people under the strongest of NDAs and so they get sponsors.

So why should riot weaken its position and make any info GNU(free to use)?

Sir ArmaMalumJul 6, 20141 votes

My idea specifically deals with creating a public poll that has equally public results. While releasing their current research and general market information would be pretty cool on an informational standpoint, I do agree that would probably end up hurting them slightly.

I'm not that interested in their targeted, highly marketable research, as the general public simply wouldn't be able to use it. But a broad, untargeted and voluntary (beyond simply being on the forums) survey will simply be an official poll that won't be terribly reliable but would allow for generalized answers to broad questions like the age of an average league player and opinions on a patch. Most of that can be gleaned anyway just from sterotypes (players being 16-30 in age and usually hating the patch and what not) but having actual numbers to look at would be nice.

Angry MonsterJul 6, 20141 votes

Wouldn't it be easier to just make a poll on some website. And then find a RED to tag it in GD and hope for hits that way?

Does not cost riot anything but using the red to attract attention.

Sir ArmaMalumJul 6, 20141 votes

But that would eventually fall into obscurity, as well as not garner enough attention to produce a large enough sample size. Take my survey, for example, the only people who would be willing to fill it out are kind-hearted people and/or ones who just enjoy filling out surveys, which doesn't happen often and probably don't accurately represent the playerbase. Adding even a very small incentive dramatically increases the scope, because it gives a reason for the average player to fill it out, even if it's something as small as 1RP or a single IP boost.

The danger about the obscurity is that one major thing about the League playerbase is that it's unprecedented. There has never been a larger, more global playerbase of any online game. As th Video game and game design industry itself grows, data from Riot could prove invaluable for dealing with such a large and diverse community. As such, long-term tracking would be needed. Although I am sure it's already being done with more precise targeted surveys, a larger, public survey would give people like game design students and gaming news something to anchor onto without having to go through the red tape of getting access to Riot's more sensitive data through NDA's and what not.

Now that I think about it, if you're really worried about the data working against Riot's position the publicly displayed results could be on a time delay of something like half a year. What would matter is simply the trends being produced and watching them change.

Angry MonsterJul 6, 20141 votes

So at first i thought you wanted something for your self. Now I get you are going for something more worldish(even a term?) I am sure the stuff you are talkign about is importation to someone but i have no clue why(beyond marketing).

I just do not get why this data is important to schools? Schools teach you how to make a game or how to interpret data, they are not responsible for getting you real current data to learn from. Fake data can be used to teach people.

So the thing if Riot does one game type(MOBA). The data is going to be slanted to a specific type of gamer. If you want a real gaming dynamic type info I would say Valve should be your target.

Valve with their STEAM platform (with its 20 million users) would actually benefit from publishing any kinds of data. Mostly since they make most of their money on the platform and not the few titles they have produced. This open data then in theory help indie publishers make more interesting games( which is your goal?, still not sure)

So side comment since their is no MSG system. Since you do true discussions thread, I thought i would throw a possible topic was sorta borught up on your last one. Competitive Gaming should it be fun?

Sir ArmaMalumJul 6, 20141 votes

I can do that as a next possible topic for sure! (Also, if you have any other ideas for discussion, or would like me to revisit a topic, feel free to drop as many replies as you'd like on my [SALT] "Nexus" post (The 'Master List' post))

I agree Steam would also be a great source of data, but it can't target the same scope as League can, largely due to the very very wide variety of games that the Steam community plays. League, however, is all centered around one singular game and is even now the poster-child for "free-to-play done right", and will also hopefully be known for simply being able to handle a playerbase of millions.

As far as academic value, Game Design is an up and coming field that has yet to make a name for itself, but imho probably will in the future. University of Texas actually has made a huge leap in that regard and I wouldn't be surprised if many universities follow. And what this field will need is two major things: teachers and data. Teachers will be very hard to come by, and will probably consist largely of visiting game designers currently working on projects and products. Data, however, is in a much more dire straight simple because of young the field of game design is. You can't count all the back to Pong because Game Design as an established and applied science has only come up within the last 20 years or so. And we already have an industry reaching over $10 Billion in revenue that will need all the designers it can get. Simply put, 'large' data like demographics are hard to get in a short amount of time, 'large' data trends over years are even more difficult. And while, yes, there is definitely market research right now that can be used a few years from now wouldn't you want a Lesson on, say, handling an MMO community and the effect of making major gameplay changes to said game, be off of more current and not drastically outdated figures? Imagine if a Lesson right this very moment was teaching MMO playerbase lessons based off of Runescape 1's market data. That honestly wasn't that far back.

End of the day, if we think even a few years in the future, would we regret not having that publicly available data now?