Some thoughts on Support

Been playing Support since before Support was a role (Preseason 1/Beta).

Simple answers for the above sections:

Gold Income as a Support -

Make it so support champs scale off something entirely different than AP/AD. Make their items stronger through tank stats for tank support items and cdr/movespeed/gold per 10/mana hp regen for the mage supports and heal/shield supports. As they scale they do not gain in damage but rather utility. This could be seen as a radical shake up, but it would make a huge impact to have insane supports providing longer cc, better shields/heals, but at the end of the day, still unable to 1v1 anybody. A support should always be rewarded for being one of the first to group up, and provide vision/utility.

Recognition -

I think everyone who mains support receives the recognition they always wanted. Ally recognition is all that matters. I don't need the "Pentakill Woman" telling me I made a "Penta Save" because that seems worthless and hard t judge. Only solution I see here is more stats in the post game. Shielding, Keystone numbers (how often did bond of stone or windspeakers negate dmg).

**Itemization **-

Feels good with 6.22 making items cheaper. Two quick fixes here and a control ward idea... Make Sightstone after a certain champion level gain another ward charge AND increase total green wards on map ex: At level 11 Sightstone has 5 wards and you can place a max of 4 on the map (scales with Ruby and Sightstone + Support item merged items). Maybe make the Merged item have an added benefit to the ward you've placed ex: I buy Eye of the Oasis typically an item for Soraka, maybe for X seconds my placed ward provides a heal. Maybe a Tank Support who scales buys Ruby or Equinox gains a reduced damage aura around his wards? This makes a supports wards truly the most impactful, and will incentivize purchasing wards. With more wards available for a support, he can still ward for vision but also have a few pocket wards for fights. Also maybe a control ward gains more gold per ward killed after being placed? 30 gold + 10 gold per additional wards killed.

Pre-Game - This section sucks. I feel like gold per 10 runes blow, the xp runes do not even feel like they work, and there has never been utility style runes. Mastery side is decent but I was personally upset when they got rid of the xp per 10 seconds when underlevelled. I used to purposely let my ADC get level 2 so I could create a steady source of xp for lane phase, and reap free xp all game. I thought it was a clever use of the mastery. I have always felt that supports should get their own Tree on the mastery section. 3 Lines down to 3 keystones one for heal/shield, a mage support, and a tank support. The secondary 12 pt tree could still be unique as mages might go ferocity, tanks in resolve, and utility supports in cunning. If any of your above sections gets a radical shake up, please make it this section. Believe me. This one matters the most. 6 years of supporting. This. One. Matters. Most.

Laning Patterns - I don't personally understand why this section is being questioned. This feels great. Very rock paper scissors. I main healers/shielders and I know I negate mages damage to allow my adc to out win trades, but I also know how I am weaker against the tanks or the hook champs. Lanes feel amazing. Do not change this.

I recently hit 1 Million Soraka mastery, so please whatever you do... don't touch her. You cannot have her.

~Utility Backline I have all the answers, and I am big league smart.

I'd choose support as my secondary if I would get it 30% of the time instead of 90% of th time. imo it's my second best role but I have to choose mid or jg because of how it dominates what you get to play consistently.

the reason I dont like the support role is that you are way to dependant of the performance of your ADC, yes a good support is supposed to make the job easier for the ADC, but a really bad ADC will ruin the lane for both him and the support player (as your EXP and gold comes directly for the work of your ADC).

and if you play a more aggresive role, then you have to deal with things like "OMG YOU KILL STEAL!!, MY FARM!!!"

I think giving the Support a little bit more of "freedom" when it comes to the experience and the gold and not being 100% dependent of the ADC last hitting the minions would be a good incentive.

The Spoils of War Passive from is a good example, but is an item not all Supports build

I'm a support main, and I think support gets little recognition is because it's very hard to see statistically what they're doing right and wrong. An adc has hard numbers in kda, cs, damage dealt, etc, but there's very little statistical feedback for support players. Being a good support is largely just doing your job correctly, but many people don't realize the little things they're supposed to be doing, which leads to poor supports who got auto filled in that position. Here are a few things I think would help give support a little more distinction:

1. Perhaps adding some reward/bonus for when an enemy is killed within vision of a ward that you placed? That way you get some feedback on whether or not that was a good ward and if it was useful to the team.

2. Kill participation. I feel kill participation largely determines whether or not you get an S or an A as support. It seems really difficult to get an S or S+ as support unless you "accidentally" steal some kills. My last S+ game on Braum was because I accidentally got a double kill as we were ending, which seems like it's rewarding bad support play. But if granting vision of enemies added towards that total, or if you had hard numbers post game that showed exactly how many units of the rift you revealed with your wards, that would help feel like you're really contributing to the team's success.

3. I agree with the above points; either make supports earn more gold or make support items cheaper. Support can be pretty boring because most games you have to build the same three items before you can start buying situational items. You have to rush , , and and THEN you get to have some free will with what you build. The addition of the new support items feels good because it feels like what you buy has an actual impact on the game.

Ultimately I think more feedback for supports to let them know if they did well or poorly is needed.

I love playing support, but it's actually made me uncomfortable in trying new roles because I feel mmr matches me with my support-level play. Getting support nearly 90%+ time while playing ranked has been beneficial to me, because I only had to learn one role. It does always stink that you may or may not have enough gold to buy crucial items (like mikael's). These items are easy to get when you're ahead, but you're out of luck and insignificantly contributing if you're behind. Maybe make ruby sightstone increase your gold income somehow? Maybe make successfully defended wards contribute to your gold (the ward dies on its own)?

Also, don't nerf Nami. She enjoyed the wave of popularity at worlds.

Im a support main with a rank 7 , i'd love to see a banner just for being a good support, especially if i jump and shield just to save my dying adc or risking my life to save the adc, making plays and keeping everyone safe is what we supports do, i can never play any other role because nobody knows how to play support, they never get or they start off with and the supports never get any recognition for what they do, if we die saving the adc, we just get reported and called a feeder

I don't play support just because I don't feel satisfied in the role like you said. People don't give a shit about what you do as support. 1/8/32? Feeder. Why be support when I can see my icon next to a pentakill across the top of the screen?

If I was in charge I would make it so champs get a banner thing for saving an ally multiple times, or receiving several assists without dying

Support Main here ... I hate being weaker / having less gold / being underleveled than my teammates. I also dislike how saving / making great plays in helping my team survives doesn't count for anything but the announcer goes crazy over people getting killstreaks. I believe if Riot was to reward people in good assist plays / doing good as Support with more benefits, people would enjoy trying Support but i'll still be maining it regardless lol.

Being behind multiple levels and thousands of gold is incredibly crippling when snowballing is out of control; just compare the disparity between season 2 and 6. Also I'd say there's another reason unlisted here; harassment. You would not believe how common it is for other players to outright disregard what a support says, simply because they're a support; likewise they're often the first person blamed, even when the situation is out of their control.

Some supports, or at least some supports in certain lane match ups, can end up having to play really passively though. How can we improve that?

Don't. There's nothing wrong with playing a losing lane aiming to go even and outscale. A lane bully vs lategame monster lane dynamic is a fun one to play in because it causes a lot of aggression and puts pressure on all players to perform as well as possible to do well in lane, as opposed to two botlanes content with farming it out and waiting for teamfights.

This is also true for other lanes, with heroes like Akali and Kassadin having poor earlygames in return for stronger lategames. Recently Riot has seemed like they want to turn every lane into a 50/50 skill matchup for lane dominance, but I'd really love it if bully vs. scaling lanes were still an option

I don't think you can solve the problem because the problem is a PEBCAK one. You're not going to make players stop being kill-crazy glory hounds.

To a large portion of players, the entire concept of support is unrewarding. If they aren't killing people, they aren't happy.

Sure, you could make supports be just another carry, but that isn't really fixing the problem, it's caving to the pressure.

Hell, even in things like MMO's, where good tanks and healers are gods of their guilds, getting enough of them is hard. You can be raid leader, big officer, main tank, hero of the world. And nobody else wants your job, because they want to do damage.

However... the one things MMOs do succeed in, mostly due to guilds, and large organized content, is the fellow player, recognition aspect. You can be a celebrated player within your sphere, without being a professional player.

So that's where I would focus. If you work to improve recognition by other players (not necessarily by in-game announcements), I think that you can aim for a remotely achievable goal.

More recognizable statistics might be the/a way to go.

Shield damage absorption. Seconds of CC applied to enemy champions. (maybe with an additional one for hard CC?) Have healing actually display amount healing allies, not just total healing. And this doesn't even hurt damage supports. They already have damage as a measured stat.

Wow, this must be how people feel when they think God answers their prayers. I submitted a lengthy question/rant to almighty Riot about this very subject via 'Ask Riot' maybe four days ago and now this. Whether the post was pure coincidence or an actual response, TY Riot. Nice to know you are out there and care because when marksmen, tanks, mages, and assassins all get significant updates but not even a mention of your preferred class, feelsbadman.

I have read nearly every comment on this post. Many people have addressed the symptoms of the support role's current state but almost no one has addressed the cause. In fact, I made the same error in my initial 'Ask Riot' question. However, after this inspiring discussion I actually think I see the problem more clearly.

The biggest problem with supports is this: the role lacks an overarching, appealing identity, responsibility, and purpose. Currently, every other role has this regardless of the subtype of champ that is played within the role. Here is how each role is currently expected to win the game:

TOP: Teleport plays and/or split-pushing JUNGLE: Ganking and objective-control (specifically dragon and baron) MID: Roaming ADC: Tons of damage through good positioning SUPPORT: Vision Control? (You might argue damage or high CC engage/disengage but really those are just subtypes.)

Let's face it, while every good support and high ELO player knows its importance, winning games through vision control is never going to have widespread appeal in a 'sign me up to focus on this one thing all game' sort of way. Neither is 'just help your teammates.' I like those things. I am a support main. But we are trying to attract more support mains.

The good news is that there is a solution. In my opinion, the support's new identity should be the "Generals", the primary shot-callers in League of Legends. They are arguably already best-suited to take on this role. As a role, they are already usually the most map-aware and often the most objective-focused (like when you have a jungler who would rather chase his 10th kill than his first dragon).

The benefits of this new identity would be numerous.

• Supports often feel the least in control of the outcome of the game. By increasing their ability to control and take objectives and lead their team into good decisions, it would markedly improve their experience and actual ability to win.

• In League, as in life, people love to feel in charge so you would attract more players to the role.

• I became a support main because of my RTS background and the emphasis the role puts on strategy via vision control, engaging/disengaging, etc. I suspect this is the case for many, many other support mains as well. Thus, it would tap into a previously neglected 'skill fantasy' that doesn't involve doing or taking lots of damage.

So how could this actually be accomplished? Few thoughts:

• An active item (let's call it the Jimber Jammer for now) that would mark turrets for a short duration (maybe a minute) on both teams' minimaps. On each attack from the support, it would reduce the turret's resistance and/or DPS. The big catch is that you can't mark turrets within in remotely close range, maybe 3000 units. So no free extra damage while already seige-ing. The idea is to incentivize your team's rotation to the correct objective. Yes, ohmwrecker exists and while I love it, it requires too much communication and coordination for the average team.

• Or how about another item: activate the item to create icons in the HUD above your team that displays the opposing teams current health and the cool down status of ultimates. Fits strongly with the theme that Generals require knowledge to make good battle decisions, just like having vision. Maybe even pair it with the ability to grant vision in area similar to Quinn's Heightened Senses but with a long cast range and healthy duration (5 seconds?). The idea, again, is that the team becomes reliant on the support's items to group around objectives rather than "follow the fed guy even if he has no clue about overall game strategy."
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There have been many complaints in this thread about supports being too dependent on ADCs. While it is true that if your ADCs is absolutely feeding, you'll hardly ever win, that isn't a very valid complaint because the same is true in every possible combination i.e. if your top goes 0/7 in 10 minutes, good luck) so you would have lost whether you played support or not. The truth in the complaint is that if your ADC is below average but not complete garbage, often the best way to win is to go help other lanes. Unfortunately, there is currently nothing that enables the support to do this without leaving his ADC vulnerable to dives. I propose an item that you can only cast on an ally (no self-cast) that gives them increased resistances when near an allied turret. This incentivizes lower-ELO players to do the right thing (farm under tower) while the support is roaming. Maybe the support could even collect gold from minions killed by the ally while they have the buff?

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As far as the pregame is concerned, I am not very dissatisfied. Still have two suggestions in this area though. This has been debated in the forums but I am in favor of swapping Expose Weakness and Assassain. If the goal of the masteries is to create meaningful choices, this would make decisions much harder for marksmen, mages, top laners and supports, who are practically forced into biscuits right now en route to Bandit. Second, with Bond of Stone nearly being rendered obsolete by Colossus and Knight's Vow, make that keystone slot a CC enhancement, like anti-tenacity. Maybe CC lasts 10% longer? CC is the common thread that all supports have in common, even high damage picks. Could create a hard decision for supports that feel they might already be tanky enough but want their abilities to have more impact. Perhaps it could even be a stat on runes?

Overall, recognition is the least of my concerns and the most easily solved (like everyone has said, jut let me know how CC I am doing and how much damage I am negating).

Ultimately, I just want to have an equal impact on the team and more customizable experience.

(Edited formatting.)

I think providing extra ip to someone who queued as support or giving in game recognition if there is an assist spree would do wonders

Owing to all the hate that supports receive from the ADC after unintentionally taking a kill, it would be interesting if there was a way to transfer kill gold to the ADC, possibly via a link akin to Zeke's Harbinger or Knight's Vow. I feel that supports are too pressured to stop their damage output once the enemy champion gets low, making for awkward play in the event that the enemy champion gets away as a result of this. Right-clicking the ground and watching your ADC deliver the last few shots doesn't offer much in the way of fun or a feeling of active contribution. Supports should not have to live in fear of criticism for actually dealing damage, when in the vast majority of cases they are simply trying to guarantee a kill.

If you want to improve the life of a support, give us a Control Ward Trinket! The price reduction was nice, but if we can only have 5 slots, how can we use that to the full extend?

I'm a mid lane main who enjoys playing support when possible. Support is actually a contested role within my friend circle, so I've talked a lot over the years about what is and isn't fun about it. Here are the thoughts I've gathered:

Gold income as support

I don't think gold income matters (much). High damage supports (Zyra, Vel'koz, Brand) already do their job very well with their current income. Lower damage supports have access to tanky or support items that do their jobs as well. Potentially you could increase income via support patterns that need it (Spellthief's), but it would have to be done in such a way that non-damaging supports can't benefit from it (Janna taking Spellthief's despite being low-damage just for the better income it provides)

Recognition of success as support

Recognition shouldn't matter, ultimately, but the lack thereof contributes to a bigger problem - the stigma that I feel holds a lot of players back from the role: the idea that the support cannot contribute meaningfully enough to single-handedly carry a game. At best, the support's job is to ensure the ADC carries, which feels too secondary for many players. Trust is somewhat of an issue in League of Legends, and for a fair reason. If you want to win, who better to trust than yourself?

Certain champions will inevitably save lives more than others (Janna, Tahm) so tangible rewards (such as gold or shutdowns or something) would too heavily favor those champions, and nods to them (via game announcements) would feel cheap and insignificant compared to kills. Especially if they didn't have tangible rewards as discussed prior, it comes into question what the point of announcing it was in the first place.

Itemization

Sightstone feels bad. 800g for an item that only gives HP, and is a required buy on all supports. Damage supports don't really want to buy it early, but have to. Some potential thoughts:

• New support item (or perhaps just Spellthief's Edge), which buffs your warding trinket so it is much more usable (wards last full length, recharges slightly faster? As an example). This allows damage supports to feel better about doing their job, and gives them an extra slot with which to do it better late-game. The downside is that they couldn't use sweeper, but with the addition of plants, the jungler picking up sweeper, and other vision changes (control wards, duskblade, etc), I think this is viable.
• Sightstone still exists, and turns into a tank (or maybe mobility?) item. Perhaps sightstone allows you to have more than three wards out at a time. In this way, all supports bring something of tangible value to the table. Damage supports feel they can contribute more with damage, other supports feel like they can play the vision game significantly better than the other players. Also of potential, Sightstone could allow you to place wards further away (Feral Flare, anyone?). A big problem with warding is often that wards need to be put down (Baron, Dragon), but getting to the places that they need to be placed is often perilous unless you ward along the way, which leaves suboptimal wards.

Stealing kills also feels bad. When it happens, people often look down on you, despite the kill being secured. Support items could potentially grant the kill gold to the nearest player, giving the support the assist gold. While not the most elegant solution in teamfights, it relieves any stress of taking kills in laning phase. This could also (potentially) open the door to other champions playing in the support role (though maybe not, as gold would be a barrier to entry for many). Notably, there shouldn't be any gold benefit to doing this, as that would promote supports always securing kills when possible.

Pre-Game

Gold runes are cool, but being that they're only in Seals and Quints, they feel somewhat ineffective. If the gold Seals moved to gold Marks, they could see a lot more use, but then run the risk of being somewhat strong, even, as you could use efficient armor and MR runes, and then stack gold runes. The only truly efficient options for Marks are AD, AS, and penetration, none of which feel great on some supports. (Armor Marks aren't great)

Certain champions don't really have a great keystone choice (Thresh). Now that Courage of the Colossus exists, it's a bit better, but prior to that he often took Thunderlord's, despite rarely being able to proc it (compared to other users). With Courage of the Colossus now existing, and Knight's Vow also existing, Bond of Stone is only okay. More important than its power, however, it doesn't feel nearly as satisfying as any of the other keystones (Fervor and Windspeaker's aren't often noticeable, but the niche they serve is obvious). Right now taking Bond of Stone feels like more of a "well nothing else really benefits me" moreso than "I want to have this ability", which feels bad when talking keystones.

Laning patterns

Some lanes feel great. I can't say enough good about how fun Jhin / Brand is. Having 8 seconds to land W catches people off guard, Sear leads to a guaranteed root, and people can't group during Pyroclasm or the Blaze proc, which makes it very hard to body block Curtain Call.

Some lanes also feel terrible. Braum relies on autoattacks to get his passive off, which Jhin isn't particularly good at, and also Jhin prefers to bully people early, while Braum prefers to protect him, which leads to a conflict of interests.

This does cause problems for players who aren't queued together with their ADC, as it impacts lane synergy, although I'm not certain how to best address this issue. This isn't just an issue for the support though, so I don't think it has a significant impact on role choice, but for those who stray away from bot lane itself, I'd cite this as a major reason.

i main support and the two biggest problems are vision and gold/exp.

the problem with vision is you need an entire item for it. that would be great if the item was better... but it doesnt offer enough (other than vision) to make it amazing. you REALLY have to be careful with what you build, because you don't have as many options considering you need boots and vision. there are two slots right there filled. then you need cdr, then you need support items if you're a healer, but also damage... _there's way too much you need vs what you have room for. _

you also don't have enough gold or exp unless you have a strong start. you're usually far behind in items, meaning you have to stay behind everyone. you also don't get cs and supports tend to roam once it gets to midgame. this means you're not near any minions and have to struggle to level up/get money. either you camp a lane for awhile and try to get cs or you steal the enemy's jungle. (i usually start stealing the enemy jungle in mid/late game if i can.) _usually, unless my game starts off very strong, i'm 2-3 levels behind. i'm also usually building my third item when everyone is working on four and five. _

even if i'm ABLE to buy a lot, i still have vision and boots to worry about. this means i usually can't buy the defense items since i don't have room. as a more aggressive support, this means i'm a glass cannon. you have to play very smart but with assassins you get SHREDDED since they can just jump you.

even though mage supports are STRONG, their defense is incredibly weak. they basically rely on positioning and playing smart. if you don't have a tank, you're gonna get shredded. you HAVE to have someone with you at all times. so you want to go place wards and you aren't strong enough to 1v1? your only chance is to peel them away but with some champions, you're dead the moment you're spotted.

imo, supports are only good if their team is winning. it doesn't matter HOW good of a support you are. you're so dependent on your adc (and the rest of your team) that you can't do anything. you can't help if you had a bad start because you don't have nearly enough items so you become a huge liability. you're not only underleveled but you don't have as many items. sometimes i just spend the last half of the game running around trying to get gold because i'm so far behind.

and even though imo spellthief's is the best item to start with, if you're in a bad matchup then you won't get any money. some games you can't poke at all so you're left with no income and your late game is destined to suck because of it.

TL;DR support is only good if the game is going well for you. there's not nearly enough gold or experience to go around and you are so dependent on everyone else that you can't ever be alone. supports have to rely on their adc for exp (and possibly gold, depending on the item). they also have to rely on other positions for protection in team fights. if left alone, they aren't usually able to 1v1 or even get away. most people would rather prioritize objectives over the support so you might be left alone to die more often than not.

the support = how the team is doing but the support = least important team member.

Make the Gold Income items, , allow you to upgrade your trinket slot into a healthless sightstone.

Or introduce a new Summoner Ability, similar to how all Junglers take . Perhaps a summoner ability that enables you to bind to a nearby champion every 2 minutes, during which, being around them gives you passive gold, or increased health/mana regen. Allow that summoner ability to let you upgrade your trinket into a healthless sightstone.

A cool idea: If a ward spots an enemy and then you happen to kill that enemy within 20 (or X amount of) seconds, the ward's life is increased and it makes a vfx/sound to the allied team celebrating the fact that your knowledge of the enemy probably helped you prepare to kill the enemy- a killing spree-esque feel for wards!

I am a low ranked support main, I haven't been for long so my input probably doesn't matter as much as someone whose been playing support and high ranking for a few seasons. The one thing I've noticed, and I dislike about the role in general at the moment is that my success as a support, is heavily dependent on how my ADC chooses to play. For the most part I play nautilus, but I also work with soraka and morgana quit a bit. When I decide to go with my main man naut, it's pretty important to have a decent early game, where my lane partner and I are able to play aggressively. My goal is to keep my ADC alive, and get them kills. That's pretty hard to do when most ADC's in my rank like to -dive under turret -don't take advantage of the opportunity when I set up kills, for no reason -constantly get stuck in bad situations where I could either A. help them, and I die but they do not, I get yelled at, B. help them and we both die, and I get yelled at, or C. I do not help, and I get yelled at for being smart and not engaging and feeding the other team. The league of legends community in low ranks is overall extremely toxic towards the supports if they aren't up to their "standards" but it is also very hard when the ADC's do not even know how to work with the supports selected champion. I feel like my post is a little all over the place with my complaints, but I also want to look at a way can fix the problems I stated above.

Create options for supports in the case that they have a bad early game, whether it be a tough match up or a bad ADC. The way this could be done is possibly to have more ways for supports to get gold, or to lower the costs for early game support items, or more but cheaper buildups into them. Different masteries for support players would help immensely. Summoner spells would be pretty cool too, making it so that barrier can not only be applied to yourself, but also your team mates. The runes that supports need to actually be efficient are extremely expensive. New items/masteries to keep your ADC alive than bond of stone and face of the mountain, perhaps more early game centric.

Perhaps more exposure to how important the support role is in general would probably help with the toxicity. Emphasize how crucial it is for the ADC and the support to communicate with each other without being toxic. I've found that a good support can carry a game, securing those kills that your team mates need, tanking towers, OHMWRECKER (an underrated but situational item that most have not heard of, and only supports ever buy, that can potentially change the outcome of the entire game if used correctly.).

Not sure how to do it, but a lot of support champions that aren't played as much as others like zyra, janna, and nami, tend to be pretty useless in the meta right now if they have a bad start or have never played those champions before. It's all about finding ways to recover from a bad spot, and right now that's extremely difficult for supports.