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Dynamic Queue matchmaking update

Riot··13 votes·45,685 views

A few weeks ago we shared plans to bring back Ranked 5s along with the introduction of ranked emblems and a deeper look at autofill. Now let’s talk about changes to dynamic queue matchmaking to address fairness issues, high tier match quality, and why it’s not easy to earn a solo badge.


Premade Advantage

Working together with teammates you trust--from the support who knows when you’re gonna make a risky Flash to the jungler who knows you like to bait enemy top laners into overextending--provides more than just a reassuring voice in chat.

At launch, almost-full and full premades were winning far too many of their games over smaller premades, and we prioritized accounting for the benefits of teamwork. When we released our roundtable discussion, we still weren’t where we wanted to be but we knew we were on the way. After optimizing the algorithms and sprinkling in some creative tuning, here’s where we’re at now:

We’re almost there. Overall, we’re happy with the result and we’ll continue to optimize the system, concentrating now on specific adjustments to account for different regions’ peak hours and different size populations to fine-tune the matchmaker at a local level.


Master Tier Match Quality

With queue times above Diamond settling in a more reasonable place (right under 15 mins, with many queues popping even before that), we’ve focused on narrowing the skill gap between teams competing around Master tier.

We’ve seen dramatically fewer imbalanced games, and despite lower tiers already having really close pairings, the changes made an impact at every level.


Solo Ranked Emblems

Before we get into what we’re doing next, we wanted to circle back to ranked emblems--and specifically the solo badge. We wanted to offer the opportunity for players to really demonstrate they’d earned their placement in pure solo fashion.

We knew we might disagree on exactly where to draw the line, because for someone who plays 100% of their games alone, even 1 or 2 dynamic games might be pushing their definition of solo. But even ignoring squeaky straw voices, it seems reasonable to say winning 13 out of 25 games without a premade partner doesn’t make a player a solo player. Even winning 20 out of 25 games on their own probably doesn’t qualify either because that’d mean a fifth of the time, that player is queuing with at least one teammate.

We settled on 90% because we wanted to maintain the integrity of the emblem. When you see it, you know absolutely that player earned a solo achievement. The buffer’s just in case a player accidentally enters a game with a teammate without realizing it, or duos very rarely.

The emblem is designed to represent a commitment to playing solo, so we couldn’t make it too easy to get, or it doesn’t actually do its job. The whole point is to show off that the player reached their rank by playing alone only. If you can still get a solo badge despite duoing or tri-queuing in 1 out of every 5 games, then having a solo emblem doesn’t mean anything.

The emblem isn’t permanent. If someone doesn’t want a dynamic emblem, they can change it by winning games solo. We’re still looking into future ways of representing individual skill. The emblems just show whether someone plays alone or if they team up before heading into queue.


Up Next

While autofill helped reduce queue times generally, we still see rare edge cases of long queue times at all tiers. Often, it’s a situation where a player doesn’t have a long enough queue time to trigger autofill, but then gets stuck in queue waiting anyway. However rare it is, we want to eliminate the edge cases if we can. We’ll also follow up with another update in the coming weeks.

300 Comments

JustCasual53 votes

I would be more curious to see a comparison between winrates when it comes to queueing as 1 or 2 compared to queueing 3 and 4.

InstaGibbs5 votes

Same

Sailor Mint17 votes

It'd be basically 50%, since premade compositions are mostly mirrored.

What you want to know is "Does the win rate of a player who plays primarily in premades go down when they play solo?" and vice versa.

From my experience, it's on a per person basis. some people have a lot of success in premades. Meanwhile, I have a <45% win rate playing with friends and a near 70% win rate by myself.

FeelMyNuggets6 votes

~53% premade ~72% solo

we are twins, friend.

RiotRiot Cactopus91 votes

Here you go fam

This is NA only: http://imgur.com/a/JGJQc

This is all riot regions: http://imgur.com/a/tCJrM

These are win rates of 1,2,3,4,5 man vs. every other kind of premade, bundled together.

Keep in mind, solos is a much larger group, hence these not averaging to 50%.

*I stole this data from Riot Socrates so I could take all his upvotes.

Bônes9 votes

What does it mean where it says Type of Match and the choices are mirror, non-mirror, or all?

RiotRiot Cactopus36 votes

Non-mirrored is like not the same type of matchup. So this is specifically solos vs. non-solos.

Mirrored is exclusively games with perfect matchups (5v5s, 1-1-1-1-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1s etc)

This is including mirrored games, which are actually the vast majority of games: http://imgur.com/a/BfJmA

This is mirrored only. Try not to laugh: http://imgur.com/a/cTHHv

AMYS GRAVE7 votes

i'm dumb. sorry for spam. misread the graphs.

RiotRiot Cactopus49 votes

you're not dumb, sixdogman. You're a beautiful, brilliant flower in a world that needs your light

AMYS GRAVE10 votes

Good guy Cactopus, I still think that solos being the only group with sub 50% is telling but it isn't nearly as important as i thought it was. Thanks for sharing.

RiotRiot Cactopus20 votes

For sure, it's not yet perfect (like the mirrored matchups). But a 0.3% winrate difference is pretty close to what we want. I imagine a lot of people are now like "oh, that's why they're not bringing back solo queue." I wish we'd been able to share these charts sooner for that reason lol

And we're gonna keep pushing new tweaks and features to try and get it there. TBH solo-only players deserve a perfect 50-50 if it's at all possible.

AMYS GRAVE8 votes

tbh 49.7% in non mirror matchups is quite impressive. Props to the folks responsible.

I've shared my thoughts on match fairness vs. match quality elsewhere so i wont restart that discussion here.

IICrowII47 votes

What I really want is a check box that says "Don't match me with a pre-made." I'm not talking about the enemy team, I'm talking about MY team. Trying to work with a premade group of 3 or 4 is a hair pulling exercise in frustration every single time for me, and the fact that I can no longer opt out of that horrible experience is the biggest reason I have a hard time justifying playing this game this year.

gubigubi9 votes

Some of my absolute worst experiences in this game are from being matched with a 4 man premade.

Quixaphid15 votes

Very much this. As JG playing with a premade is awful. No one wants to blame anyone on their premade for anything, so any time anyone screws up you have 3-4 people hating on you in chat. Its really unpleasant. Not to mention they often are on coms and so don't ping or use chat. You should get some extra IP or something to compensate you for having to deal with that

FunkyMonkey369647 votes

As a mostly solo player, I have question. I feel isolated by rito, dare i say almost discriminated against. The issue is not just match making or dynamic queue, it's the lack of incentives for solo players. Every single time there is a rewards, bonus etc, it is always for group players, not solo. Oh look "party" ip weekend because your region won. Want to earn more hextech easily, better play as a group. And now even ranked rewards are easier to obtain as a group then solo. I understand the point is to have fun and enjoy league and its not just about in game rewards, but when you consistently only reward your group players, solo players like me can't help but feel that you don't care about us. Rant over.

Quixaphid18 votes

Yeah, I feel this too. I work a tough job with long variable hours. Sometimes I get home and just want to play lol, and always feel like I'm being punished for playing on my own. Feels bad.

bowlasoup1 votes

[deleted]

n00b eXpr3ss15 votes

I agree, it is easy to max out a friend list, but I have to side with the two people above. My work is very long and demanding. I'd rather come home to a quick game or two before bed. Trying to match up with random people that you pretend to know isn't all that much fun. It's even worse when you find out they are just want to troll in groups. I feel better off playing solo most of the time.

Moeuguudes44 votes

That's such a biased graph it's not even funny (the winrates one).

Of course the winrates are going to begin to even out over time; there's never going to be a constant climb because people will reach a stagnation point even as a premade team. If that wasn't the case, queing up as a five man premade vs solo's or duo's would result would land everyone in higher plat eventually. No matter what, a premade -will- reach a stagnation point where they begin to get matched against solo players that are skilled enough to outdo their tremendous advantage of voice communication and compatibility with their teammates.

You're saying your "tweaks" and changes have balanced out the winrates when it really hasn't. A premade team of five in any division will outperform their competition in that respective division until they ascend to a higher division where their premade status won't matter as much because they'll be vastly out skilled. It seems like this is what you want, considering you "account" for premades by matching them against higher skilled players, but the issue is that these premade teams shouldn't be matched against them to begin with.

A player that only plays premade full teams that was in silver before can now rise to plat by relying on his teammates. That's not a "plat" player, that's a silver player abusing the dynamic que system, aka "boosted" player. This is the problem, and all the graph you've presented shows is that more boosted players have reached their stagnation point even with premades, meaning they're still in divisions they don't belong in, which causes the value of having the rank to drop.

Honestly, badges are a horrible band-aid over the gash that is dynamic que. All it's going to do is cause more flaming, which is going to worsen the community, and they don't hold enough tangible value to solo players. You think premade five players care if they get called boosted? Of course not, they KNOW they're being boosted. It's why they're doing it. And what does it mean to a solo player? More likely to get targeted by the enemy team, and what's the return for it? A purely aesthetic feature that's supposed to be an "accomplishment" but doesn't improve anything tangible for the solo player. What do premades get? A badge that shows that they're boosted or boosting others, and better players because they're climbing.

You're pretty much saying fuck off to solo players, tbh. I'd rather there not be an attempt made to give solo players something to make solo play worthwhile until you understand what the problem is (because you clearly don't) than to get these half-assed band-aids that just shows you're grabbing at anything to appease people instead of actually solving the problem.

derpaderpadurr4 votes

[deleted]

FlakJackit6 votes

There isn't much to argue. -A ranked queue without stagnation wouldn't be a good ranking system. -He said that the value of high-rank means less to him because there are people there that he feels don't deserve it. Nothing to argue, the value of high-rank is all opinion.

The only thing that could be questioned is his assertion that premades are getting matched against solo players of higher skill, when according to an earlier red post in this page, is untrue. Most matches are mirror matches.

Riotchristokkies22 votes

That assumes that players consistently play with the same players and never plays by themselves. If queueing up as a 5-person premade gave a huge advantage, then when the player plays solo he/she should lose most of the time, dropping their elo and keeping their 5-person premade winrate high. The snapshots here are taken after adjusting the elo coefficients for when premades play solos, etc. (although this happens rarely), so I think it's safe assume that this is the causal mechanism here and not premade teams reaching a plateau.

We also looked at the effect of change in average premade size on elo from year to year, and queueing in premades doesn't really have much of an effect.

Meanie408 votes

Your last sentence is invalid. You could not play ranked with greater than 2 people in a premade until this year.

Riotchristokkies20 votes

sorry, seems to be some confusion around the last paragraph. We can look at CHANGE in average premade size from S5 to S6. So, for example, if I only solo'd last year and now I only queue up with 2 other people, I'm a +2. we can then take the range of these differences (+.1, +.2,+.3, ...+1...+4) and plot them against differences in elo from season to season. The correlation is very very small, it's almost a non factor.

Hermitthedruid40 votes

Things you haven't fixed:

  1. Ranked integrity

  2. Rampant smurfing

  3. Abysmal matchmaking because of rampant smurfing

  4. The solo player experience in game

  5. The feeling that Riot doesn't care about the solo player

Ramelznak12 votes

Don't hold your breath for a reply.

Pope Guilty VIII7 votes

Smurfing is something that is impossible to fix dude

Aids cuz League2 votes

Give IP Bans to those who have more than 3 accounts on a PC. Problem Solved. I honestly could care less if a smurf gets banned, they are intentionally doing it to make themselves feel better by stomping new players. And sadly enough it's become so bad that ive actually been reporting all smurfs for cheating.

Sakaru17 votes

Great idea. I'm sure my younger friends who have 4~7 siblings in a family that can't really afford multiple PCs capable of playing games would really appreciate this change.

It'll also really help the people who have multiple accounts for learning various aspects of the game at their skill level in that role, rather than making higher skilled players on their team suffer for their own ineptitude at a new role/etc.

My cousin's family will also appreciate it, since he, his 3 kids, his wife and occasionally his kids' friends use their PC until he can get better job to be able to support 3 children and still afford multiple PCs.

You're full of wisdom that really accounts for the human element, and not just your saltiness towards one specific sub-set of smurfs.

Also, never mind the fact that smurfs get teamed with other smurfs after the first handful of games, right? Which means if you're running into that many smurfs after a certain (very low) level.. You're also a smurf.

ÂFRÏCÂN GØD32 votes

Bring back solo q

Raven Elizabeth24 votes

People wanted stats. They got em. People called them trash or ignored them. Surpise.

Mast3rMahan20 votes

Stats are easily manipulated. Especially when you are combining 1-3 man queues. It doesn't address what people want to know about, the solo queue players.

RiotPhreak20 votes

Keep in mind that some of these are the exact same populations/segmentation as the previous post. Kinda hard to mess with that.

Meanie4012 votes

And it is the population YOU (general you as Riot) want to measure, not the populations that will provide information on the real state of Dynamic Queue.

NABoardsAccount21 votes

Just bring Solo Q back, we dont want this crap. Give us our competitive queue back.

thresholden18 votes

I've never really cared about dynamic queue one way or another but these graphs really do a poor job assuaging the concerns of people who do care in my opinion. There has to a better way to visually depict these improvements because these graphs have such little information or context that seems like you're over simplifying things.

It's a complex problem, showing parts of the complex solution would lend some credibility to the graphs.

Eleshakai17 votes

I appreciate the stats, but this still doesn't measure the reduced quality of the experience that comes from solo matching alongside a 4 man premade.

It's so demoralizing that I suspect most people don't even bother to report(which would explain the 'low toxicity numbers' too)... and it's the number 1 reason why I don't see myself ever coming back to play ranked in LoL.

It's not about winrate... it's just about it being an awful game.

SpawnofHeck15 votes

This cool graph, but essentially pointless. They way you should get placed on a team should be based on your LP. I should never play with a gold player in ranked if I'm silver, but this happens frequently. Riot should not fix games to be 50/50, but instead let their ranking system do the work. Example: a SilverI, 50LP duos with a SilverIII, 50 LP they should be seen as a pair of SilverII 50LP and placed with the closest players to SilverII, 50LP in the system. Period. That is the whole purpose of a ranked system, I don't want a 50% chance to win in ranked, I want to play people of my rank and beat them to climb and lose to fall, eventually getting to 50% naturally based on my skill level. TL;DR THERE SHOULD NEVER BE A PLAYER MULTIPLE TEIRS ABOVE ME IN A RANKED GAME, ESPECIALLY IN SILVER. (This has no bearing on normals, fix those all day)

Ozlo Zozo13 votes

Ok well that's good and all but your matchmaker still needs work. I have had games were my whole team was Bronze and the whole enemy team was Silver, what's up with that? Or another game where I had pre level 30s and bronze players on my team against a team with bronze silver and 1 gold member.

It seems to me like your match maker finds two groups of 5 then matches them. A better way would be to find ten players and split them up evenly, too many games snowball and I often look at end of game what rank everyone is at.

Please addressees this issue.

Also in your rotating game modes I am matched with Bronze to Dimaond everygame, why do you do this to me?

camp or feed18 votes

I always thought you had a separate mmr for ranked and norms. I've been playing since S3 and regularly get matched up with Plat and Diamond players even though I've never made it out of Silver due to lack of enjoying ranked

PsycloneJoker12 votes

As always your graphs are hilarious. I'd love to see a graph that shows the winrate of 5 man teams vs the winrate of solo players. Something tells me I'm never going to see a graph like that though because I kinda doubt it supports your position.

macdshifty9 votes

I'd love to see a graph that shows my average queue time before dynamic (something around 30-40 seconds) and now (anything under 7 mins is a blessing)

PsycloneJoker3 votes

Ooooh yeah queue time would be a nice graph to see as well. Wonder why we didn't see one of those this time around. :^)

macdshifty9 votes
Mr Intensity13 votes

I think you mean before new champ select, as that had more to do with queue times then dynamic queue.

macdshifty1 votes

How much is due to dynamic and how much is due to new champ select I don't know. What I do know is that my queue times comically long, and the new system does nothing to prevent people from queuing as support/fill and then saying "don't care i'm going mid" just like it used to go last season. So if people want to steal roles they still can...now you just have to wait in queues 300-1000% longer until someone bans the champion you are hovering.

Th4ren4 votes

if you can just que as support/fill then take what you want in the lobby then go ahead. have fun losing a bunch of games then getting banned... idiot.

BRANDIINO12 votes

Players are still punished for queuing fill/support in higher elo's, and I haven't seen one post to address this.

For example, lets say I queue fill/support at D3~ elo. I will get a queue in under a minute that will throw me anywhere from a masters+ - D5 player range because the demand for people of those roles is so high. It really really discourages me from picking these already massively under represented roles. Does Riot have ANYTHING planned to make fill/support more appealing or more consistent?

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