An update on 3rd party Mods (and Curse Voice)

RiotSargonas·May 3, 2014·47 votes·595,465 views

Hey everyone,

We wanted to give you an update on our stance on third-party mods, since it’s been an ongoing subject of discussion and debate in recent weeks. (If you just want a TL,DR then hit the bottom).

Here’s how we look at things:

Our top priority is to preserve the consistency of the in-game player experience.

League’s a competitive game, and it’s critical that players have a level playing field. We’ve definitely heard your passion on this point and we agree.

It’s also important that the game experience you get when you download League of Legends is the complete experience - you shouldn’t have to go digging for other apps and addons just to stay competitive.

Finally, it’s important that the games you play are stable and secure. If any third party can potentially affect the stability of the core League experience, we’ll always act in the best interest of all players.

We strive to make League of Legends the most sportsmanlike competitive game.

Programs or applications that warp your first interactions with other players have a direct impact on the sportsmanship of the game, and everyone deserves a fair first handshake.

We want the community to be empowered to contribute to the League of Legends experience (as long as it doesn’t clash with the above!).

There are a bunch of awesome resources out there for the League community: websites that have champion guides, stats, videos, fan art, wikis, mobile apps – you name it. We like that, and we think these resources are responsible for tons of growth and nurturing in the League community.

Riot’s Policy on Third-Party Apps

With the above points in mind, we’ve recognized that our existing policy on third-party apps needs an adjustment. Currently we’re just too ambiguous in some areas (what constitutes an “unauthorized” app?), and too restrictive in others.

So here’s our clarification - we’re still working on properly wording it for a potential TOU update, but we wanted to share it with you as soon as we had a clear direction:

No software should interfere with the League of Legends player experience between when you press “Play” and the end of game screen.

This policy allows for all the cool stuff we mentioned before, like websites and apps that don’t interfere with or grab data from the player’s actual game client. This also allows us to explicitly disallow anything that directly integrates in between the in-game experience and after-game stats.

We think this is a hell of a lot closer to an ideal policy, but we don’t think it’s completely locked down. We are taking a hard stance that nothing should interfere between pre-game and post-game, but we’re always open to improving the player experience.

The Riot Games API

Part of of this plan will be continuing to focus on developing the Riot Games API, which is our official channel for the developer community to gain access to League of Legends data in a secure and reliable way. This is just part of our ongoing effort to respond to players' and developers' requests for data and to arm the community with more ways to contribute in a stable and healthy way.

To date, we’ve given out several hundred API keys to developers who are working on awesome stuff. If you’re a dev and want to contribute, visit http://developer.riotgames.com/ to sign up and learn more.

So, what does this mean for Curse Voice?

Two elements of Curse Voice aren’t allowed under this new policy:

Automated timers: while our design team is still exploring whether we’d want to add any kind of built-in timers to League of Legends, we agree with many of you that having it accessible only through a third-party app is a clear competitive advantage between those who download it and those who do not, and isn’t acceptable.
Automated voice calls: We have no problem with players hopping on Curse Voice (or any other voice chat client) to coordinate with their friends in-game, but when the application begins directly connecting you with dozens of other people in unfiltered (and untrackable) voice chats, it can make for a huge negative player experience in a space where we can’t help.

A summary

Ultimately we recognize that our initial third party application policies were unclear, so we’re clarifying them in line with a few core philosophies:

1.) The League of Legends in-game experience should be consistent and fair. 2.) We strive to make League of Legends the most sportsmanlike competitive game. 3.) We want the community to be empowered to contribute to the League of Legends experience.

This has allowed us to formulate a more comprehensive policy for third party applications:

No software should interfere with the League of Legends player experience between when you press “Play” and the end of game screen.

We always want to improve League of Legends in the best ways possible, so this will be an ongoing project, but we think that as long as we adhere to our core philosophies, we can uphold this policy.

I’ll be hanging out in this thread to answer questions and hear your feedback and ideas. Hope this clears things up!

10-14-2014 EDIT **We just added an update to all of this, posted below In the interest of making it clearer, here is a copy of what that update says... ** *"Hey everybody!

I wanted to jump back into this discussion to share some updates. As those following this topic know, back in the spring we made some clarifications that 3rd party applications with particular functions were considered against our Terms of Service (that link goes to the old Forums thread, which is a mirror of this one), and that the use of such applications was prohibited (and could even potentially lead to disciplinary actions). One of the several contributing factors to this topic was the early beta of Curse Voice and recent updates to Razer Comms, and the conversations that arose around them.

Over the past few months we have been working with the developers of many applications, including Curse and Razer. Because of this, the latest revision of Curse Voice (version 6.1.X) and Razer Comms (version 2.1.X) no longer violate our current guidelines. I should note, however, that with all third party apps these situations are subject to change as programs evolve, and this issue may be revisited in the future if the situation warrants it. Also... Curse Voice, Razer Comms, and all other 3rd party programs are not supported by Riot. Because of that, we can never guarantee the user experience when they and other programs are run in tandem with League of Legends. We always suggesting disabling such programs in your first step towards any troubleshooting, should problems arise

Hopefully this clears up any remaining confusion out there."*

127 Comments

RiotSargonasOct 14, 201455 votes

"Hey everybody!

Hopefully this clears up any remaining confusion out there."

EleshakaiOct 14, 20143 votes

"Hey everybody!

I wanted to jump back into this discussion to share some updates. As those following this topic know, back in the spring we made some clarifications that 3rd party applications with particular functions were considered against our Terms of Service (that link goes to the old Forums thread, which is a mirror of this one), and that the use of such applications was prohibited (and could even potentially lead to disciplinary actions). One of the several contributing factors to this topic was the early beta of Curse Voice and recent updates to Razer Comms, and the conversations that arose around them.

Over the past few months we have been working with the developers of many applications, including Curse and Razer. Because of this, the latest revision of Curse Voice (version 6.1.X) and Razer Comms (version 2.1.X) no longer violate our current guidelines. I should note, however, that with all third party apps these situations are subject to change as programs evolve, and this issue may be revisited in the future if the situation warrants it. Also... Curse Voice, Razer Comms, and all other 3rd party programs are not supported by Riot. Because of that, we can never guarantee the user experience when they and other programs are run in tandem with League of Legends. We always suggesting disabling such programs in your first step towards any troubleshooting, should problems arise

Hopefully this clears up any remaining confusion out there."

Extremely disappointed to hear this. In-game communication in solo queue is about to hit an all time low...

Dr Clueless PhDOct 14, 20145 votes

Why is that, exactly? It's not like you're being forced to download CV and enter voice chat with your team.

ULTRAF0RCEOct 14, 20142 votes

Are custom skin programs, as long as the skin is not an official skin allowed? The example is the program mentioned here http://mobaskins.com/installing-custom-skins/

End Of ZionismOct 15, 20142 votes

Hello i'm owner of MobaSkins and in the past there hasn't been any problem of using Custom Skins. Since it doesn't really directly affect the gameplay experience or give you advantages.

I know in China they did stop one of the programs allowing you to equip the existing skins or something. Since Chinese region being biggest in player base but yet making less money than EU/NA/KR. Anyhow so far Riot hasn't contacted us to Stop what we do or anything

UNST3RBLICHMay 3, 20144 votes

I'm kind of glad this update on policy and third party apps is being made. I've tried Curse voice, and honestly I wasn't very impressed with the timers. Then there's the concept of being put in a voice chat with a completely stranger without initiating that voice chat on my end; it's just weird. I tried it all out but wasn't impressed and didn't feel as if it added anything to the experience other than being a bit of a resource hog, and so have since uninstalled it.

ALethalPineappleOct 14, 20144 votes

Curse Voice in Awesome, now we can rage without typing!!!!

sükaOct 14, 20144 votes

So, basically, if Curse Voice re-enabled dragon and baron timers and add blue and red buff timers with the same rules as your timers, would it still be legal? It gives the same information, but only in a different part of the screen. Technically, im right or am I not? Clarify me please :/

RiotSargonasOct 14, 20144 votes

So, basically, if Curse Voice re-enabled dragon and baron timers and add blue and red buff timers with the same rules as your timers, would it still be legal? It gives the same information, but only in a different part of the screen. Technically, im right or am I not? Clarify me please :/

No, this would still not be allowed. We did not change the rules as outlined in the original post of this thread. They still require that 3rd party applications not provide functionality that interacts with the user experience from "play" to the end of match. Also, we do not allow for functionality that creates a split in the tools and resources available to players that directly impact game-play experience between those who use and app and those who do not, causing a "must have" scenario.

TL;DR - the rules are the same they have always been, these applications simply removed functionality to fit within them. Any future changes that would be in conflict with the rules posted above would once more make it an issue of concern.

MackleDogeMay 3, 20143 votes

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm really really pleased that this is the initial direction you guys are going with this policy and I'm looking forward to further information and updates on the matter. I don't know if it could/has influenced Riot's decision but there is a Reddit thread from Travis's interview with the Curse CEO and a brief (very brief when Curse got called out) AMA with the CEO.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/24kkt1/curse_ceo_here_travis_interviewed_me_about/

Main concern being all the private information about players that Curse Voice gathers.

TayschrennMay 3, 20143 votes

Given the popularity of Curse Voice does Riot now understand that the features offered should be provided in the base client?

MackleDogeMay 3, 20142 votes

They specifically mentioned the design team looking into the inclusion of timers into the standard game client. Also, sorry, but I don't care how popular it is, a third party application shouldn't be allowed when it pulls all the personal and private information of the people using it. This is a smart policy decision regardless of whether or not it ends up being popular or unpopular with parts of the community.

TayschrennMay 3, 20143 votes

The timers are less important to me than integrated voice chat. In a game that relies entirely on communication having to rely on typing is insufficient. Listen to the 'sounds of the lcs clips' and imagine the teams trying to communicate what they're saying via typing in the midst of the team fight action.

MackleDogeMay 3, 20141 votes

There are plenty of voice chat programs that don't require in-client or game access all of which are free and arguably better than Curse Voice. As well as safer for the user and less likely to end up populated with people you don't want to have to talk to. I entirely agree that communication is key and very important, but that shouldn't be accomplished in a manner that sacrifices safety, privacy, and comfort of the players.

TayschrennMay 3, 20144 votes

but the problem is that there are MANY voice chat programs...what do you do if you use mumble, your adc uses raidcall, your mid uses teamspeak, your top uses skype etc...riot needs an integrated voice chat...integrating it into the client doesn't sacrifice safety, privacy, or comfort (magic mute button)

MackleDogeMay 3, 20141 votes

Having integrated voice chat raises the issue of people reporting those who either choose not to use the voice chat or don't have the actual hardware to take advantage of said voice chat for "Refusing to Communicate with Team". Whether or not this gets them banned doesn't really matter when it leads to flaming, arguing, and senseless reporting. This goes back to the 'fair first handshake' policy that Sargonas mentioned.

I understand what you're saying about the number of applications and I agree it can be frustrating, but those are all readily available for everybody and anybody regardless of operating system and as far as I know language, which isn't the case for Curse Voice. In the end though, voice chat itself isn't going to be a perfect system in a game that you play online with strangers, it just won't and never will.

TayschrennMay 3, 20142 votes

It isn't as if typed chat would be removed with the addition of an integrated voice chat and frivolous reporting is something that is independent from the voice chat issue thus the first paragraph of your response doesn't really carry much weight.

With regards to your second paragraph: I have zero support for curse voice but what it was poised to do (provide a rather unified voice chat system) is something that I feel this game needs. I view an integrated voice chat as completely additive to the experience of playing this game. Sure you're going to run into people who rage and flame...but those people are the people who are already raging and flaming in typed chat...and you would continue to have the option to mute their voice chat...but you'd still have the option to type chat (so nothing is lost by adding voice chat) if they continue to flame/rage in typed chat you mute them just as you would in the current system.

UNST3RBLICHMay 3, 20142 votes

Voice chat isn't strictly -needed- in League matches, and a lot of times it can be pretty distracting. To be honest, I play better with a team that uses smart pings and chat when it has to. When I hop on our Vent server or join a call on Skype to play, it's with friends and just for fun.

Hyrum GraffMay 3, 20145 votes

I'm a proponent of Riot having integrated voice... but having everybody on your team be muted by default at the start of a match, and then you can selectively unmute them. This way, it's opt-in instead of opt-out.

jj dominicanJan 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There are plenty of voice chat programs that don't require in-client or game access all of which are free and arguably better than Curse Voice. As well as safer for the user and less likely to end up populated with people you don't want to have to talk to. I entirely agree that communication is key and very important, but that shouldn't be accomplished in a manner that sacrifices safety, privacy, and comfort of the players.

with curse you have the option to accept or not to accept a calle.. is not like is a must to talk to all player the uses curse (experience from smite)

LovelySkylarkMay 3, 20141 votes

I just use Skype or TeamSpeak which gives me the option to choose who I want to add and who not to. The problem with this is that it requires a lot of usage when it comes to my computer, but I tend to do just fine as is with Skype open.

2VNMay 7, 20142 votes

When I use Skype, not only does my CPU usage go up, but so does my ping. But when I use Curse Voice, my ping stayed the same.

LovelySkylarkMay 8, 20143 votes

I havent tried Curse Voice yet, I got the email about the open beta yesterday but didnt have time to download it. Is it a lot better? :D

Support RubmleMay 3, 20142 votes

"pulls all the personal and private information of the people using it." that's not curse voice?

MackleDogeMay 3, 20142 votes

Yes it is, go to the Reddit thread and read through the documents that the CEO himself posted.

LeeDarkMay 4, 20142 votes

No, it isn't. Curse Addon Manager for WoW, which was also on the OP's computer in that thread, was the piece taking more information, because ads are used in the addon manager free version. Their privacy policy is no different than any other privacy policy, and Curse Voice does not collect the same information as the addon manager. Get your facts straight.

MackleDogeMay 4, 20142 votes

Keep QQ'ing it's not legal.

LeeDarkMay 5, 20143 votes

They changed the addon to comply with the rule change. So, it looks like you're the one who gets to keep QQ'ing. Go ahead, repost the same thing for the fourth time in a row. It certainly doesn't make you look like a "petulant child."

RiotSargonasMay 3, 20147 votes

In one of the older threads, Ghostcrawler himself dropped by to shed some light on that fact. he said the design team indeed is taking a long hard look at the possibility of adding in these timers as well. He agreed it had some potential Quality of Life improvements. The crux was the fact this benefit was only available to players who elected to download and install the app, and not those who did not. At that point there is a disparity we felt was detrimental to the experience.

ProtoLegMay 5, 20144 votes

We want voice chat more than we want timers.

StigOct 14, 20143 votes

Flip Flop

RiotSargonasOct 14, 201428 votes

Flip Flop

I've seen this mentioned a few times this morning, and while I can understand why you might feel that way, I don't think we've really flip-flopped. We outlined functionality that these applications had that was against our policies. In the months since, these applications have removed these features, and therefore are no longer in conflict with our policies. We've never changed our stance, they simply changed how the applications work.

LaviRabiOct 14, 20145 votes

Flip Flop

I've seen this mentioned a few times this morning, and while I can understand why you might feel that way, I don't think we've really flip-flopped. We outlined functionality that these applications had that was against our policies. In the months since, these applications have removed these features, and therefore are no longer in conflict with our policies. We've never changed our stance, they simply changed how the applications work.

Exactly this, if they had actually flip flopped then the programs would still be exactly the same as they were then. Since they removed all the stuff violating the terms of service, that made them alright to use. I SEE NO FLIP FLOPPING. :D Draven

Foxy HimikoOct 14, 20143 votes

" Also... Curse Voice, Razer Comms, and all other 3rd party programs are not supported by Riot." So what you are saying is... these programs wont have lag or disruptions? :P In all seriousness though, I am happy to hear this.

Locke64May 3, 20142 votes

"Interfere" is about as ambiguous as "unauthorized". I expect the TOU will be more specific.

RiotSargonasMay 3, 20145 votes

It will indeed be clearer, in this context though we mean "interfere" in the literal definition "take part or intervene in an activity without invitation or necessity." We are looking at this from the point of view of "things taking part in the client experience without our (Riot's) invitation to do so."

Nameless VoiceMay 3, 20143 votes

So, if I'm understanding this right:

Automatically detecting when to start a timer -> bad (No user invitation)
Starting a timer when a user presses a key -> Okay (Because its not automatic)

Going by this example: what about a tool which, upon pressing a key, opens the chat console in the game and types "Dragon: (current game time + 6:00)" into team chat?

The user has to press the key, but the tool quickly adds up the time and announces it to the team (saving the player chat-typing time.)

Acceptable or not?

MackleDogeMay 3, 20142 votes

If it follows the same reasoning that was used to disallow the automatic timers then that wouldn't be acceptable. The individual act isn't the only factor in determining if a timer is alright or not. That timer would (from my understanding) be disallowed because of it's behaviors existing in-game during the actual course of play as well as the fact that the timer (which I'm assuming is part of a third party application/widget/program because it isn't included in the vanilla client) isn't immediately available upon first start download and may/may not be available to all potential users. While the behaviors may seem innocuous, we have to keep in mind that when policies are made they are made to be a blanket that covers an entire group, so while a small timer application that auto-adds when the user clicks might not be an issue, other programs that automatically perform things when the user clicks might, and that is what we as a community and Riot as a company has to be wary of.

CerbearusMay 3, 20142 votes

Any reason you have three points, but all of them are labeled "1"?

Also I agree Curse Voice is unfair, and should either be banned, or included in the game for everyone.

ChroniclerCMay 3, 20142 votes

Not entirely related to 3rd party mods, but directly related to the "fair first handshake" idea; will anything be done about the sites that track all players' game stats? I forget the exact name of the site at the moment, but every time I've seen it used in chat, it was used to deride another player. "He's gold-rank in a bronze/silver game, so he must be a coward smurf." "Silver last season, but Bronze now? Clearly you bought your rank last season." "This is only his third ranked game, don't let the noob play that."

GG BeersOct 14, 20142 votes

What is the stance on client side skin mods?

LoneWarrior96May 3, 20141 votes

I think seeing how Curse Voice does help the people who have it and your saying is a detriment to those who do not have it, Riot should speak with Curse about the possibility of including curse voice with the downloads of the league client so that everyone can have access to it. I think if that happened alot of people who are crying about not having it would be pleased. Because tbh Curse voice is nothing special besides some timers and voice chat if you choose to use it.

TL:DR League Client + Curse Voice (Both included in League Download) equals best solution if you are not willing to put the time into creating something similar.

ShentokMay 3, 20142 votes

Kinda screws over people who want to play vanilla.

lOlOlProJul 31, 20141 votes

I just want to know if this is the reason for why I got banned because if it is then that's a low blow riot, banning people for using curse? All you have to do is get rid of it if you don't want any1 to use it instead of just straight up banning a bunch of people for it... That is things that make others lose hope in the game and just lose faith in playing.

RiotSargonasAug 2, 201416 votes

No, this is not why you were banned. We are currently not handing out bans for Curse Voice detection. If you've received a ban from us, it will be for other reasons.

Awesome BowlerOct 20, 20141 votes

Unfortunately, with these changes, Razer Comms has disabled the LoL functionality completely. Rather sad really.

RiotSargonasOct 22, 20146 votes

Unfortunately, with these changes, Razer Comms has disabled the LoL functionality completely. Rather sad really.

I feel your pain, but at the same time you have to understand their league-specific functionality was based around asking players to input their LoL username and password in an insecure manner. From a player security perspective, we can't have third parties doing that as it opens you guys up to potentially having your accounts compromised by other parties.

for us mac users out there we are now at a disadvantage :/ there is no Curse Voice for macs as far as I know. Rito help?

It's true they don't have a Mac client, but I do hear one is coming. However it does not put anyone at a real disadvantage... it's just a voice chat system. There are plenty other alternatives that exist for Mac already that provide the same functionality.