Dynamic queue and the future of League

Riot·5/31/2016, 6:30:35 PM·37 votes·113,749 views

With the introduction of dynamic queue, we alienated a portion of League’s passionate player-base who believe a ranked competitive experience should be limited to a solo (or duo) endeavor. We agree dynamic queue standings don’t reflect pure individual skill as well as a solo ladder, but they also don’t inhibit competitive team experiences, and that’s a trade-off we want to make. After considering all possible options and assessing the gains (and losses) of dynamic queue over the last five months, we've made the decision to not bring back solo queue.

While we’re committed to dynamic queue, we know there’s still a few problems we need to solve. We highlighted the most serious issues and what we’re doing about them in an open roundtable discussion you can watch here. Below, we’re covering the data behind the problems as well as expanding on some of the answers presented in the video.


Role selection

Position select isn’t sufficiently prioritizing primary roles and we’re working to improve how it does so. You should get your primary position more often whenever possible. Right now, a support main has a 95% chance of getting his role, while a mid main has only a 55% shot at getting hers. Different combinations of roles also vary quite a bit. For example, if a mid main is a support secondary, she’ll end up mid only around 16% of the time.

Over the next few days we’re rolling out a few adjustments to tackle this problem directly. We’re increasing the likelihood you’ll get your primary role, and we’ll continue working to improve this.


Premades and fairness

We’re also tackling match quality because games featuring premades versus non-premades are unfair, even if they are rare. Delving into the numbers, Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Plat solos, duos, and trios battle a five-player premade in about 1 game out of 1000 (slightly more often in Plat). In Diamond, the odds of encountering a full premade jump to 1 in 150, and then skyrockets in Masters+, where players encounter a five-stack as often as 1 in 25 games. Despite being relatively uncommon below Diamond, the winrates look like this overall:

We’ll be adjusting premade handicaps further to even the playing field between premades and non-premades.


High MMR adjustments

We know we can guarantee reasonable matches for almost all players, but elite MMR has such unique issues we need to make changes specifically to the highest tiers to account for the differences.

For example, because mismatches are much more common and much less fair at high MMR, we’ll limit the roughly top 1% of MMR (Diamond 5 or higher) to solo, duos, or trios. League is a team game, and we want dynamic queue to work for every player who wants to compete, but we’re admitting how impossible it is to find fair matches when fully-coordinated professional teams like SKT are out there lurking in the queue. We’re currently considering enabling 5s for Diamond and above during specific peak hours on certain days of the week--when more players are in queue to make matches.

We want to improve things now. We’re also still looking for and working on better solutions. It isn’t only match quality that varies wildly at the top compared to the rest of the ladder.


High MMR queue times

We recently made some behind-the-scenes adjustments to how the matchmaker works, bringing average queue times for high MMR down to 17 minutes (from spikes as high as 30). We still don’t think that’s good enough, but we’ve exhausted our leading options for addressing queue times via this type of algorithmic or other backend tinkering.

Position select combined with the smaller player pool at elite MMR is causing long queue times at the highest tiers. We’re going to intentionally make a trade-off here: Scale back on guaranteeing specific roles in order to better ensure high quality matches get made in a reasonable amount of time.

To address position shortages, we’re adding an autofill mode that can trigger when queue times are too long. If players enter queue with excessive estimated wait times, the matchmaker will potentially assign them a role other than the two they selected.

The matchmaker will continue to optimize for primary and secondary positions, falling back to fill only when necessary. We’re looking to minimize the number of players that’ll end up filling, but it will happen most often at highest tiers.


More clear and frequent updates

We know the dynamic ranked experience has been painful for the highest skilled players for the last few months. We remain focused on improving it and agree the current state is unacceptable. The video and this wall of text is another step we’re trying to take towards more clear and frequent updates. We’ll follow up with more data and results from our upcoming changes, sooner rather than later.

GLHF, and we’ll see you on the Rift.

967 Comments

Volgaria5/31/2016, 9:16:09 PM201 votes

Brace yourselves, there's a shit storm comin

Noobs Surrender5/31/2016, 10:49:26 PM126 votes

Just a thought...

Allow players to choose their own individual settings. Allowing the player to decide their priority.

For example: Allow a slider bar that goes 0-9 for each of the big three (Role, Time & MMR). As you slide one bar up, the other two go down. This would allow people to "customize" their match-ups. This would allow players to minimize the stat that is most problematic to them.

We all find certain issues more annoying than others. I wouldn't mind a 20-30min Q... Others do...

Another alt. example: Give players fixed numbers to choose from based off Q time. 5min Q + (priority of MMR or Role) or 10min 15min 20min... etc... Then these players could wait for up to the maximum wait time they chose to get the "best" match-up. Riot could also show a % or # of players in those Q timers to allow the player to make a best guess on what timer to use. Or provide some other statistic.

5min Q with prioritized MMR would not wait for a role match. If it worked, great, but would not hold you back based on it.

5min Q w/prioritized Role would match your role __% of the time but allow a variation of __% MMR

*Just my 2 cents....

Underestimated5/31/2016, 9:19:06 PM108 votes

Well, at least they confirmed what we've been suspecting for months... finally...

Melodramadic Pud5/31/2016, 9:18:00 PM96 votes

Seems as if Riot clearly hasn't been listening to the majority of their players. SoloQ is the one thing we've heard and voiced over and over that we want to see happen.

biggnig695/31/2016, 9:28:04 PM89 votes

RIP Solo Queue

2011-2016

Gone but Never Forgotten

AATTRROOXX5/31/2016, 9:30:24 PM75 votes

So what I get from this is that Riot wants a competitive scene in ranked, but because playing with friends is more fun, competitive isn't good.

Don't forget that they are completely going back on this statement in regards to higher tiers, where they are instituting a semi-soloqueue (because these tiers are supposed to be "competitive" unlike the rest of the entirety of the ranked queue) and also making it similar to the old draft pick in which players have to play whatever role is open.

Riot, please create a poll or other similar information recording device and tell us how much the community wants dynamic queue instead of making decisions for us.

relevant quotes: (different boxes are not speaking of similar things)

We agree dynamic queue standings don’t reflect pure individual skill as well as a solo ladder, but they also don’t inhibit competitive team experiences, and that’s a trade-off we want to make.


For example, because mismatches are much more common and much less fair at high MMR, we’ll limit the roughly top 1% of MMR (Diamond 5 or higher) to solo, duos, or trios.

League is a team game, and we want dynamic queue to work for every player who wants to compete


To address position shortages, we’re adding an autofill mode that can trigger when queue times are too long. If players enter queue with excessive estimated wait times, the matchmaker will potentially assign them a role other than the two they selected.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Deep Terror Nami5/31/2016, 9:18:27 PM49 votes

To address position shortages, we’re adding an autofill mode that can trigger when queue times are too long.

I want to know how this will be indicated to the player. Do they get some sort of notification that 'autofill' is active and they might end up somewhere else, or are they not going to know until they enter champ select?

I imagine that this would be indicated during role selection, but if it doesn't then that is horrible because people need to ensure they have runes/masteries and champions that will fit other roles, along with simply being mentally prepared for it.

2nd Chance5/31/2016, 10:40:49 PM48 votes

Golly gee whillickers! I wonder why we're down voting you so much on reddit and the lol boards? :D It's the question of the century that has Riot dumbfounded according to Riot Pwyff.

It's like we're trying to express our distaste over these changes like a good fanbase and yet your still not listening fleeing to twitter!... Nah that couldn't POSSIBLY be it!...

...

It's absolutely horrid to play ranked at the moment as a solo player.

Just give us back freakin' solo queue already, make dynamic queue a duo/triple queue option and make a team queue like always for groups of 5. Pre-made groups of 4 is always going to be a problem and shouldn't be allowed. This isn't friggin' hard to comprehend now and implement.

Cressalia5/31/2016, 9:32:43 PM48 votes

The biggest flaw of 5 Solos versus a Premade being "equal" is communication and teamwork. Solo versus Premade will never be equal, never.

bowgamer5/31/2016, 9:12:01 PM47 votes

[deleted]

trivialattire5/31/2016, 9:39:57 PM41 votes

I don't have any friends that play LoL, I've been playing solo for the last three years. Are you telling me I can't play Ranked anymore?

303Devilfish5/31/2016, 10:25:47 PM41 votes

Graves can't have his cigar We can't have solo queue

why live

SirDante8305/31/2016, 10:22:13 PM40 votes

"but we’re admitting how impossible it is to find fair matches when fully-coordinated professional teams like SKT are out there lurking in the queue." lol I can imagine SKT lurking in a dark street and finding some innocent harmless person and creeping closer and jumping at him and stabbing him in the back with a knife, then eating the lp out of his body as he drops back down to bronze xD

ZiPS5/31/2016, 9:28:16 PM38 votes

we've made the decision to not bring back solo queue. we’ll limit the roughly top 1% of MMR (Diamond 5 or higher) to solo, duos, or trios.

Make up your minds. This double standard is bullshit. "5-man stacks are unfair" and "5-man stacks are okay sub-diamond". In other words, "fair games are for diamond+". If you aren't diamond already, start looking for friends.

Jofeyy5/31/2016, 10:06:21 PM38 votes

On a side note, Overwatch is a thing :D

High55/31/2016, 9:55:59 PM37 votes

Those aggregate numbers don't reflect my average queue times. Average time said 2 mins and I was upwards of 4, 6, 8 mins. Too often, I had to requeue at 20 mins.

DynamicQ had a lot of problems, but longer queues times to appease lazy players was a deal breaker. I was perfectly happy with pick order and 1:30 queues before.

Best KhaZix Void5/31/2016, 9:54:25 PM35 votes

"You want Soloqueue huh? Well FUCK YOU"

Thanks Riot.

Polite Yasuo5/31/2016, 10:11:46 PM35 votes

I'm not sure why Riot is focusing on the high-tier matchmaking when 98% of their players are Plat and below. They should be optimizing it for the majority of players

ShinkoMinori5/31/2016, 10:22:49 PM35 votes

This is a big "Fuck you" to a big chunk of league players and honestly it makes me consider if its worth spending more time and money in this game if Riot is going to treat us like that.

If you are so confident to say "Fuck you" to the players then back it up with your player-base number... that you HAVE NOT DONE FOR 2 YEARS

Mandaari5/31/2016, 11:31:15 PM30 votes

They're phrasing it as if DQ and role selection are the same thing. They're not. Role selection is a feature that DQ uses. DQ can exist without role selection and role selection can exist without DQ.

Personally, my problem has nothing to do with role selection. All of my problems are with the fact solo queue and premades are ranked together:

They "rank" two different things. I don't want to win against a premade team because I'm playing against a premade of worse players. That isn't a valuable experience at all to me. Just because you quantified the value of their "premade-ness" and adjusted for it doesn't mean we're equally skilled. It means the thing I care about in solo queue (mechanical skill, strategy, adaptation and coordination with strangers) plus this adjustment beats what I care about in a premade queue (mechanical skill and strategy given perfect communication tools) results in an equal win rate. Congrats, you quantified it. I don't give a shit. I don't want to see how good I am with that adjustment.

In regards to the video, Riot spent half an hour trying to justify their decision when it's based off assumptions. For one assume they can project their values onto other people. Example: You're willing to trade these ladder issues to quell in game harassment. I'm not. For the most part I straight up don't care about in game harassment (no, I don't flame people at all). I'm not interested in everybody getting along; I'm interested in winning. Part of winning is being able to overcome those issues, which premades teams (shouldn't) have an issue with. You're implying you don't value that as a skill, so you're just going to adjust for it in your matchmaking. Don't pretend you know what I want, because you've been getting it wrong for years now.

You also mention how you're trying to balance all these different levers (quality, time, etc.), yet the two people in the room that aren't from Riot disagree with what they want. You will never find one solution to satisfy us all. If you try to do so you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator and nobody will be very happy. If I care about my role then let me pick one role. I'll wait for the queue. If I care about time let me queue for more than two roles. Let me tell you what I want, not the other way around.

Also, you're falling into the "when all you have is a hammer" problem: You're trying to fix a bunch of issues solely based on matchmaking. Look at the role selection chart you have. I'm sure you're aware, but it's inversely proportional to how many people want to play that role. Support has fundamental issues that you have no plans to fix any time soon. ADCs and supports are frustrated that they get 5 man turret dove constantly, and that their roles are way more team reliant than other roles. Just start by fixing the support role and I'm sure you'll put a pretty good dent in your precious queue times.

After you look at the chart maybe realize why premades were so frustrated. You have one game mode that you give a damn about and it's 5v5. Maybe give Twisted Treeline some love and 3 man premades will be happier. And by "some love" I mean you treat SR and TT as equals. Dragon has been fundamentally changed and re-tweaked repeatedly for the last few years. Vilemaw hasn't been touched since it was added. You would never add an item to TT that would break SR, yet you've been doing the inverse for years. Personal anecdote: I've had three friends and all the time I think "Maybe we should play on TT," which is quickly followed by, "Fuck that, it's broken as hell." I would love to play on a balanced TT. Too bad you made the decision for us that League of Legends is nothing but 5v5 on SR.

I don't know if it's pride, putting too much faith into statistics, or what, but you can't seem to admit that you should undo your mistakes. You have this "roll forward" attitude that just digs you you into a deeper hole. I started playing LoL less and less over the course of season 6. I love some of the new skins, but my wallet has been closed to you for the past couple months. Now I have Overwatch installed and I'm having a blast. Let's see how much deeper you want to dig.

HowPlayGAEM5/31/2016, 10:28:59 PM28 votes

So you admit 5 stacks destroy solo queue and you think just because it doesn't happen often, its fine to keep it in ranked?

I like how you didn't even bother going into the details. Do 4 stacks demolish solo queue? 3 stacks?

How sad is this, you're obfuscating facts just to force this shit through.

Viktomized5/31/2016, 9:29:44 PM27 votes

I understand how some people may be upset by this, but what else was Riot to do? I for one like solo queue because it forced people to play other roles and prove they can climb the ladder based on overall skill, but also because in solo they had to support when it was their turn or at the bottom of queue. The flaw though; imagine your the ADC and you get a support heimer or nocturne. At least in Dynamic, the supp now tends to pick it because they want to do it. Its hard to please everyone. Perhaps this way they can be semi-pleased by playing what they prefer and we can have better games. Now we can complain about why people lock in Zilean mids and spare me the "it works" cause no it doesn't.

Reconnected5/31/2016, 10:15:01 PM23 votes

And thus Riot entered the Warlords of Draenor era.[zombie-nunu-bummed]

SIayton5/31/2016, 11:09:34 PM20 votes

IMO they are prioritizing quick queue times too much. People should be able to opt into 1 role selection knowing that their queue time may be longer. Don't wanna wait for mid queue times? That's the price of playing only mid. Pick a secondary or a different role if you can't handle that.

As far as teams vs solos, I've said it 100 times but teams should never fight solo players. MMR difference can never make up for the strength of coordination without stacking the MMR so in favor of the solo guys that it feels unfair for the 5 man. Why can't 5 man teams just fight 5 man teams and so on? We don't have to have instant queue times. We just want fair games and agency over our roles we play.

Junkyard5/31/2016, 9:58:08 PM20 votes

Well, I was pretty much done with this game anyways. Overwatch looks cool!