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Singed, Off-Meta and False Logic...

ReadyxPlayerxOne··4 votes·2,577 views

I've seen a lot of posts about "off meta" and that "singed issue" and much of it contains false logic. There is a lot of "IF A; Then C" Arguments, slippery slopes and bait and switches. Not going to pick anyone apart but I do want to help clear some things up.

  1. Will you be banned for playing "Off Meta"? Absolutely not. No one has ever been banned for playing any champion in any role and doing so with the intention of helping their team win.

  2. Do I have to build a certain way? Is it bannable if I don't get a sightstone (or other item)? Absolutely not. Building a champion is very subjective to the game and in many situations building the "standard" way isn't the way to go.

  3. Why can't I play however I want? RIOT's stance has been that the game is a "puzzle" to be figured out. There's nothing wrong with trying to figure out that puzzle or find a different way than is normally suggested by pro's or anyone else to solve that puzzle. In terms of player behavior though RIOT Tantram has made it clear that the general rule is "don't be a jerk". Odd play styles, weird builds and off meta picks don't excuse you from this rule. You can be a jerk simply by duo jungling when the jungler (and your team) doesn't want to play that way. You can be a jerk for being a support and just standing behind tower while your adc gets dived. Sitting there watching it happen is just being a jerk.

  4. Was the "singed support" guy banned because of his off meta play? No. They were banned because over the course of hundreds of games their play consistently effected their team in a negative way. It's not that he was playing differently or "off meta" he was playing like a jerk and doing it extremely consistently, despite warnings. There was a similar situation a few years ago. A 5 man team wanted to play a "feeder mid" comp. This would mean their mid would run down mid and die. Over and over and over. They wouldn't be worth much gold. They'd basically be worth 1 large minion. But it would distract the other team enough (who wanted to get kills) and give the other four people time to get really far ahead in cs and xp. They claimed it was just a "different" way to play. RIOT's stance was similar. Playing this way if everyone involved is OK with it isn't an issue (and that goes for the enemy team as well). It's a problem when the play style becomes disruptive yielding a negative experience for either team. Duo jungle (or anything else that's really odd) wouldn't be a problem if both your team and the enemy team didn't have a problem with it. However, if they're reporting the person then it's safe to assume they have a problem with it.

Hope this clears some things up.

74 Comments

Aptest3 votes

but I do want to help clear some things up.

I would rather you don't put it like this. This kind of language implies:

  1. You are an authority figure here
  2. you understand the situation / are an authority on the subject

You have no tag, therefore are not an authority figure. Reading your post it is obvious your understanding is lacking. Let me expand on this before you flame me for making a personal comment:

No one has ever been banned for playing any champion in any role and doing so with the intention of helping their team win.

We have just gone through a whole lot of commotion because a player chose a non-recognized champion and played it in a non-traditional way, and got banned as consequence.

It is obvious that the whole "communicating with the team" thing, which is the party line on why he was suspended, is sketchy at best and regardless is not the core of why all those reports were made or were responded to.

What happened in reality was the exact opposite of your assertion. which tells me you do not have a good understanding of the subject matter.

Do I have to build a certain way? Is it bannable if I don't get a sightstone (or other item)? Absolutely not.

But if you get smite and go take the enemy jungle, you'll get a 2 week suspension. So, again, your words are against the facts of this specific matter.

You can be a jerk simply by duo jungling when the jungler (and your team) doesn't want to play that way.

No. here is the equivalent of your words: you can be a jerk simply by not following your jungler's orders on how you should play the game.

The case we have here is this: disagreeing with the team and refusing to follow orders being falsely interpreted as being negative, offensive and generally a "jerk" towards your team.

No. They were banned because over the course of hundreds of games their play consistently effected their team in a negative way.

This is the only legitimate part of your post, and I would like to address it.

When other people disagree with you, especially when you are in a team effort with them, it annoys you and it sucks. If your proposed plan of action is vetoed by them and you have to follow their plan - especially where their plan puts you on the chopping block - it is super annoying.

The negative effect here is a direct result of players having to adapt and not wanting to and getting pissed because they are forced into adaptation. Whereas the alternative "working with team" is simply a different way of saying the other guy has to comply with your ideas instead of you complying with him.

I.E. You can be a jerk simply by insisting on traditional support play when the other guy doesn't want to play that way... and reporting him when he refuses.

The negative input here is not Skyhart's actions, but the (spiral of) responses that follow them from the other players on his team. As it is, his team is the major contributor for all the negativity in his games - and they should be held accountable for getting triggered and upset in a situation where they are not justified for being triggered. So why is he getting punished?

_I.E. a whole bunch of **jerks ** reported Skyhart because they wanted to Jerk him and he took a suspension to the face because they were jerks and Rito failed to realize it. _

ReadyxPlayerxOne2 votes

{quoted}

I would rather you don't put it like this. This kind of language implies:

  1. You are an authority figure here
  2. you understand the situation / are an authority on the subject

You have no tag, therefore are not an authority figure. Reading your post it is obvious your understanding is lacking. Let me expand on this before you flame me for making a personal comment:

We have just gone through a whole lot of commotion because a player chose a non-recognized champion and played it in a non-traditional way, and got banned as consequence.

It is obvious that the whole "communicating with the team" thing, which is the party line on why he was suspended, is sketchy at best and regardless is not the core of why all those reports were made or were responded to.

What happened in reality was the exact opposite of your assertion. which tells me you do not have a good understanding of the subject matter.

But if you get smite and go take the enemy jungle, you'll get a 2 week suspension. So, again, your words are against the facts of this specific matter.

No. here is the equivalent of your words: you can be a jerk simply by not following your jungler's orders on how you should play the game.

The case we have here is this: disagreeing with the team and refusing to follow orders being falsely interpreted as being negative, offensive and generally a "jerk" towards your team.

This is the only legitimate part of your post, and I would like to address it.

When other people disagree with you, especially when you are in a team effort with them, it annoys you and it sucks. If your proposed plan of action is vetoed by them and you have to follow their plan - especially where their plan puts you on the chopping block - it is super annoying.

The negative effect here is a direct result of players having to adapt and not wanting to and getting pissed because they are forced into adaptation. Whereas the alternative "working with team" is simply a different way of saying the other guy has to comply with your ideas instead of you complying with him.

I.E. You can be a jerk simply by insisting on traditional support play when the other guy doesn't want to play that way... and reporting him when he refuses.

The negative input here is not Skyhart's actions, but the (spiral of) responses that follow them from the other players on his team. As it is, his team is the major contributor for all the negativity in his games - and they should be held accountable for getting triggered and upset in a situation where they are not justified for being triggered. So why is he getting punished?

_I.E. a whole bunch of **jerks ** reported Skyhart because they wanted to Jerk him and he took a suspension to the face because they were jerks and Rito failed to realize it. _

There's so much false logic and insane thinking here I'm not even going to respond more than "you're wrong... deal with it".

Demonicous3 votes

More than a 50% win-rate is a negative consequence of their actions? Your argument fell apart right there.

CrimsonReaps2 votes

He had a 50% win rate on singed overall, what was his winrate with singed support specifically? was it still positive, i heard he had 30% win rate on singed support but higher in other roles.

Demonicous1 votes

You heard wrong, watch the video he has more than 50% on Singed in the single season.

I dont know how much more fact filled of a report you can get, than a video of gameplay and LoLProfile stats that are irrefutable.

Butt-hurt opponents reported him not his team mates, I can guarantee that.

CrimsonReaps3 votes

yes a 50% win rate on singed, but was he playing ONLY support for all those games? or did he mix in some singed in other roles, what i heard which could be wrong yes, is that he played support singed and top singed losing a majority of the support games, but winning the majority of the games he went top. This could be wrong but its what i heard.

Demonicous1 votes

Can you play Singed top against a Vayne or Jayce... not really... I mean you could but you will get zoned. So if he did then his Support Singed must be closer to 70% winrate than 50% to make their Singed winrate total a bit above 50%.

CrimsonReaps2 votes

That's true, and im not sure of exact numbers i just heard on one of the 10,000 posts about this that he had a crappy winrate on his support singed, and a good winrate on his top singed. this could be wrong but it makes sense to me at least.

Demonicous1 votes

Too many people think they are the authority on the subject. If that was the case then everyone would be in the LCS. The current meta has hyper carries, and bruisers that have devastating burst damage up top. Singed has little leg to stand on there anymore which is why people tried Jungle Singed at the beginning of last season. However his initiate is weak AF unlike a Rengar or Shaco.

So what other positions can Singed play? Support is the logical choice. However Bard roams a lot, and the counter-jungle Ivern Smite Support is gaining popularity as well. Its hypocrisy that I see. I see Bard and Ivern roaming constantly and no one bats an eye.

You are entitled to an opinion, and that is fine... but when Rito make a policy decision regarding something that many people feel is the wrong decision thats what people have a problem with.

Rito needs to stay the eff out of this one because its a meta shift that still needs to be given a chance.

Jorencice3 votes

Lol. I havent seen even a single thread that was pro doing whatever you wanted at the expense of your team that wasnt negative votes.

Everyone is AGAINST a double jungle comp where the person goes support just for a faster que time.

Demonicous2 votes

He was not double Jungle. Again with the misconceptions and misinformation. Jesus Christmas just watch the video.

Jorencice3 votes

I did. He spent entire 5+ minute strechs away from bot.

That makes him a jungler at that point.

Demonicous1 votes

That was late game... the whole team was figuring out where to push next controlling enemy jungle. Look at the mini map in the video.

Bot lane on the enemy team does not even have an INHIBITOR at that point. It was the first lane that was pushed just by Twitch ADC, Singed and the Jungler.

FFS I feel like I was the only one to watch the whole video.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Jorencice3 votes

I mean it doesnt matter how that particular game went.

His ban was because he was constantly forcing his teammates to do strategies they didnt want to do.

Its that simple.

He would join a game and basically say. "Hey im doing what i want and you can fuck off if you dont want me to"

So even if he won he had already ruined his teams game. Ive actually talked to adcs that hes forced to 2v1 under their turret for large strechs of the game.

None of them felt good about it.

Every single one of them (all 2 ive talked 2) said it made the game extremely shitty.

So what your basically saying is its okay to ruin someone elses experiences as long as your having fun.

Krigjer1 votes

So what your basically saying is its okay to ruin someone elses experiences as long as your having fun.

At what point do we admit that there's always someone in the equation not getting what they want?

Either teammates have to put up with an odd pick, or the off-meta player is almost always giving in to their team's demand to play something 'normal' or risk upsetting them.

You're basically saying 'it doesn't matter if you're not having fun playing something meta as long as your teammates are happy with your meta pick.'

If I only ever played what my teammates wanted, I'd have a whole three champ pool. There's a reason I stopped asking teammates what they preferred- even if I don't ask, I still get 'no no, don't play that, -blank- is better!'

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

At what point do we admit that there's always someone in the equation not getting what they want?

Either teammates have to put up with an odd pick, or the off-meta player is almost always giving in to their team's demand to play something 'normal' or risk upsetting them.

You're basically saying 'it doesn't matter if you're not having fun playing something meta as long as your teammates are happy with your meta pick.'

If I only ever played what my teammates wanted, I'd have a whole three champ pool. There's a reason I stopped asking teammates what they preferred- even if I don't ask, I still get 'no no, don't play that, -blank- is better!'

If you have fun with odd playstyles and champ pools... that's fine. Do it in a way that doesn't negatively effect your team.

I fully support playing odd champions in various roles. I love how Sion and Teemo can pretty much play anywhere. It's fun to see what you can do on an ashe jg or a garen support or whatever... But there's a point at which your teammates need some consideration. If the majority of people you encounter over thousands of games don't enjoy what you're doing because it directly and indirectly forces them into a negative experience then it needs to be addressed.

Demonicous1 votes

Unless you watch their stream I wouldn't go around stating that because it is inaccurate.

You are also assuming its not a case of mistaken identity. Most people cant remember what they had for breakfast, let alone who they reported in a game god only knows when. I'm not saying there aren't negative copycat players but its outside the character of this one player.

Obviously we are of two separate opinions on this. I agree if a toxic player is being toxic needs to be reprimanded but I don't remember any time they acted like...

"Hey im doing what i want and you can fuck off if you dont want me to"

We can respectfully disagree on this but all I am trying to do is get the known facts straight.

Jorencice3 votes

Except there is no disagreement. Your simply wrong.

How many times have they went "oh hey my team said they would rather i not play double jungle support singed ill change my pick"

Because i havent seen it happen.

Thus hes LITERALLY saying.

"Hey im doing what i want and you can fuck off if you dont want me to"

YourQQ1 votes

{quoted}

I mean it doesnt matter how that particular game went.

His ban was because he was constantly forcing his teammates to do strategies they didnt want to do.

Its that simple.

He would join a game and basically say. "Hey im doing what i want and you can fuck off if you dont want me to"

So even if he won he had already ruined his teams game. Ive actually talked to adcs that hes forced to 2v1 under their turret for large strechs of the game.

None of them felt good about it.

Every single one of them (all 2 ive talked 2) said it made the game extremely shitty.

So what your basically saying is its okay to ruin someone elses experiences as long as your having fun.

No, that's just a silly excuse.

atomicwit3 votes

{quoted}

yes a 50% win rate on singed, but was he playing ONLY support for all those games? or did he mix in some singed in other roles, what i heard which could be wrong yes, is that he played support singed and top singed losing a majority of the support games, but winning the majority of the games he went top. This could be wrong but its what i heard.

I agree that we should ban 75% of ranked Lee players since most of them have awful winrates and are clearly hurting their team's chances.

boiled crab1 votes

That is exactly what i want to say. If you win 53% of games using wierd tactic - your team should think how to adapt with it. Not you.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

[{quoted}](name=boiled crab,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=zm4pJa69,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-11-18T17:18:59.745+0000)

That is exactly what i want to say. If you win 53% of games using wierd tactic - your team should think how to adapt with it. Not you.

Really egoistic to think that 4 other people should conform to your tactic when they want to play another way. And I like playing off meta and odd champs. One of my best is support Sion. Do I expect my team to conform to me? No. I make plays using the champ and role I picked and help my team win. Forcing them into situations that they don't want to be in for no other reason than it's fun IS trolling.

Jorencice2 votes

Honestly for being the highest mastery point singed. 53% isnt very good at all.

Look at highest level anivias or aurelion sols. Last i checked mains had like a 65% winrate.

That means for every 100 games he wins his team 3 more games.

Which means 47 games hes pissed off 4 people just so he can win 3 games HIS WAY.

Fairyfleur2 votes

Win or loss, it was a negative experience for his team

MtnDewsh2 votes

Honestly, it does not matter if your team is okay with it or not. I could have a problem with someone picking a "meta" champion and roaming, but that doesnt mean they should be reported or banned. The league community is just filled with players that are overly sensitive and think every other player owes them something. The guy has a positive win are with his strategy. And from what I have seen, is not toxic or intentionally throwing games. He pastes a spiel of what he plans to do during the champion select phase. Even that isnt necessary, he does it as a courtesy. The objective of the game is to destroy the enemy nexus, I see no issue if he is bringing his team one step closer with his strategy.

ReadyxPlayerxOne2 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, it does not matter if your team is okay with it or not. I could have a problem with someone picking a "meta" champion and roaming, but that doesnt mean they should be reported or banned. The league community is just filled with players that are overly sensitive and think every other player owes them something. The guy has a positive win are with his strategy. And from what I have seen, is not toxic or intentionally throwing games. He pastes a spiel of what he plans to do during the champion select phase. Even that isnt necessary, he does it as a courtesy. The objective of the game is to destroy the enemy nexus, I see no issue if he is bringing his team one step closer with his strategy.

What are you even thinking? It doesn't matter if your team is ok with it or not? That's THE WHOLE POINT OF THE PLAYER BEHAVIOR SYSTEM!!!!!

It's to prevent YOUR BEHAVIOR from affecting YOUR TEAM or the enemy team.

This is exactly what I mean by false logic.

Furthermore, the consensus of RIOT and thousands of reported games was that he WASN'T helping his team get closer to the nexus and was in fact hindering them.

Demonicous2 votes

Do you have a win-rate of higher than 50% on any champ?

You are level 24, you play AD and Tank Teemo. Pot calling the kettle black I see. You are not using Teemo to his full potential and therefore you should be reported. And those plays also have... LOSSES. OMG!

Hypocrisy people, here is living proof.

ReadyxPlayerxOne3 votes

{quoted}

Do you have a win-rate of higher than 50% on any champ?

You are level 24, you play AD and Tank Teemo. Pot calling the kettle black I see. You are not using Teemo to his full potential and therefore you should be reported. And those plays also have... LOSSES. OMG!

Hypocrisy people, here is living proof.

Since you're a spammer and troll I'm going to say this once and hope you figure it out.... THIS ISN'T MY ONLY ACCOUNT AND YOU'RE BEING VERY RUDE.

Demonicous1 votes

Riot does not condone Smurfing... you just admitted to it. Not a spammer, just trying to get it into your head that you are wrong.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

Riot does not condone Smurfing... you just admitted to it. Not a spammer, just trying to get it into your head that you are wrong.

Troll is what troll does.

Demonicous1 votes

Forrest Gump quotes are fitting for you. GJ!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

See what I mean people about the community trolling? Just because someone disagrees with you you get downvoted and get called a troll when you point out the fallacy of their logic, and the hypocrisy of their beliefs as per what they state versus what they practice.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

Forrest Gump quotes are fitting for you. GJ!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

See what I mean people about the community trolling? Just because someone disagrees with you you get downvoted and get called a troll when you point out the fallacy of their logic, and the hypocrisy of their beliefs as per what they state versus what they practice.

Stop trying to sound smart... it's not working. You've yet to say anything relevant to the subject matter in the OP or make any logical argument about anything. You are trolling and basically admitted as much.

Demonicous1 votes

Aptest said everything I wanted to say. No reason to be redundant. I might as well copy and paste his argument then if you want me to respond to your OP. You are trolling the community with your biased OP. Yet the video EVIDENCE of your argument being wrong is all over the forums today, and you claim I am the troll.

Stop playing Tank Teemo in your games while filling the boards with rhetoric condemning people who experiment with the meta!

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

Aptest said everything I wanted to say. No reason to be redundant. I might as well copy and paste his argument then if you want me to respond to your OP. You are trolling the community with your biased OP. Yet the video EVIDENCE of your argument being wrong is all over the forums today, and you claim I am the troll.

Stop playing Tank Teemo in your games while filling the boards with rhetoric condemning people who experiment with the meta!

I've responded to him. You're welcome to see my responses to his false logic as well. As I said, I don't condemn people who experiment with the meta. I do it all the time. You're purely looking for ammo to fuel a fight against me that is completely unnecessary. You're a troll and I'm done talking with you.

Demonicous2 votes

You are the troll, PERIOD.

Your response...

"You're wrong, Deal with it."

That is a troll response even though he addressed each point one by one, and you TL:DR'd him.

Then you call others that disagree with you "rude."

Grow up kid and stop trolling and posting crazy OPs that have no merit and no points that are agreeable. Riot made a bad call on the disciplinary action and the player's record, video evidence, teammates all disprove your point of view.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

You are the troll, PERIOD.

Your response...

That is a troll response even though he addressed each point one by one, and you TL:DR'd him.

Then you call others that disagree with you "rude."

Grow up kid and stop trolling and posting crazy OPs that have no merit and no points that are agreeable. Riot made a bad call on the disciplinary action and the player's record, video evidence, teammates all disprove your point of view.

You read the wrong comment.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Jorencice3 votes

Riot has nothing against smurfs...

Demonicous1 votes

FACTS

** Is smurfing okay? Why don’t you have better solutions in place for this?** (Note: This question generated a lot of interesting internal dialogue. So we wanted to include two Rioters in an edited conversation for this question, to highlight that we don’t always have all the answers.) It’s complicated. WookieeCookie: We don’t endorse smurfing, but tackling it is a very difficult issue because of our player population size and the ease of account creation. We agree that smurfing can really ruin the game, such as when a smurf stomps lower-tier players. However; from past attempts we've learned that it's a real uphill battle to create powerful restrictions on alt-accounts without inadvertently affecting the majority of our players who don't smurf at all. Instead of cumbersome systems to blanket restrict smurfing we're looking for targeted answers that attack specific pain points. For example, if we find a player is using a smurf to actively hurt the game and other players we’ll take direct action on that account, and in some cases their main account as well. Ghostcrawler: Sometimes players are smurfing because they are trying to accomplish something that League isn’t offering - in other words, the need is unmet. For example, playing with a friend with a different skill set is a noble pursuit that League doesn’t support very well. Other players might make a smurf account because they want a sense of rapid progression that they experienced when leveling from 1-30 or maybe even climbing through Bronze and Silver. So we should be careful not to paint all smurfs with broad strokes and assume that they are trying to grief actual new players. They may have other intentions. That said, taken on the whole, I’m not a fan of smurfing and worry the potential harm to other players outweighs the benefits to those players with unmet needs. WookieeCookie: Agreed! That’s why we can’t endorse it. Instead of trying to restrict or prevent smurfs, various teams across Riot try to minimize issues caused by smurfing. For example, one of the teams that works on meta-game systems developed pretty good detection methods that quickly separate new players from experienced smurf accounts in the early levels. Within a few matches, smurf accounts only end up playing against other smurf accounts.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/community/q/lets-talk-smurfs-snow-and-bans-ask-riot

ReadyxPlayerxOne2 votes

{quoted}

FACTS (Note: This question generated a lot of interesting internal dialogue. So we wanted to include two Rioters in an edited conversation for this question, to highlight that we don’t always have all the answers.) It’s complicated. WookieeCookie: We don’t endorse smurfing, but tackling it is a very difficult issue because of our player population size and the ease of account creation. We agree that smurfing can really ruin the game, such as when a smurf stomps lower-tier players. However; from past attempts we've learned that it's a real uphill battle to create powerful restrictions on alt-accounts without inadvertently affecting the majority of our players who don't smurf at all. Instead of cumbersome systems to blanket restrict smurfing we're looking for targeted answers that attack specific pain points. For example, if we find a player is using a smurf to actively hurt the game and other players we’ll take direct action on that account, and in some cases their main account as well. Ghostcrawler: Sometimes players are smurfing because they are trying to accomplish something that League isn’t offering - in other words, the need is unmet. For example, playing with a friend with a different skill set is a noble pursuit that League doesn’t support very well. Other players might make a smurf account because they want a sense of rapid progression that they experienced when leveling from 1-30 or maybe even climbing through Bronze and Silver. So we should be careful not to paint all smurfs with broad strokes and assume that they are trying to grief actual new players. They may have other intentions. That said, taken on the whole, I’m not a fan of smurfing and worry the potential harm to other players outweighs the benefits to those players with unmet needs. WookieeCookie: Agreed! That’s why we can’t endorse it. Instead of trying to restrict or prevent smurfs, various teams across Riot try to minimize issues caused by smurfing. For example, one of the teams that works on meta-game systems developed pretty good detection methods that quickly separate new players from experienced smurf accounts in the early levels. Within a few matches, smurf accounts only end up playing against other smurf accounts.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/community/q/lets-talk-smurfs-snow-and-bans-ask-riot

Hey look... you can find an example when you need it.... too bad it's barely supporting your point in an off topic comment...

Maybe find the same thing where they say they ban people for playing "off-meta"?

Demonicous1 votes

They just threatened a player with it, its all over the forums.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

They just threatened a player with it, its all over the forums.

They didn't though. I asked for you to find one that actually backed you up. The forums have it wrong and was the entire premise of my post. You can pretend it applies. But it doesn't. And you choosing not to accept the rational and reasonable answer as to why that behavior was considered unacceptable isn't anyone's problem but your own.

Ba22crow2 votes

{quoted}

Furthermore, the consensus of RIOT and thousands of reported games was that he WASN'T helping his team get closer to the nexus and was in fact hindering them.

Ironic considering he made it to plat playing that way eh? Shocking to think people could be wrong and just jumping at someone standing out of line isn't it.

Notice he only fell to gold after he was told by a Riot employee to quit playing that way or be permabanned.

Effectively they said quit playing an effective tactic you inventively came up with, and play a normal, more accepted one that is less efficient or we will not let you play at all because people don't like it.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

Ironic considering he made it to plat playing that way eh? Shocking to think people could be wrong and just jumping at someone standing out of line isn't it.

Notice he only fell to gold after he was told by a Riot employee to quit playing that way or be permabanned.

Effectively they said quit playing an effective tactic you inventively came up with, and play a normal, more accepted one that is less efficient or we will not let you play at all because people don't like it.

That isn't what they said. And rank isn't considered in any of this... it was consistently negative behavior. Not an inventive way to play.

Ba22crow1 votes

{quoted}

That isn't what they said. And rank isn't considered in any of this... it was consistently negative behavior. Not an inventive way to play.

No rank wasn't taken into account, that's why I brought it up. If he can climb much higher than most players using this, then clearly his "behavior" is affecting his team mates much less negatively than what most bronze or silver players are doing, one would even venture to say positively.

They specifically said to not do it, except when in a group with friends so that he wouldn't get reports, and that, and I quote "I understand you want to play singed support, however, your team mates do not want you to play singed support."

He was reported for doing lvl 1 counterjungling and roaming to help other lanes as support Singed. If any of those are inherently against the rules in some way I have not seen them stated. And again, his behavior was not out of line, no cursing or hate speech or negative attitude. He clearly defined what he was going to do before each game started, joined in team fights, and coordinated with the team for ganks so it wasn't that he didn't communicate with the team. And he maintained a positive win rate all the way to plat, so he was not feeding or grieving his team mates. The only buttons left are afking, which he clearly didn't do or he would have got automated bans, not manual reviews, offensive summoned name, and cheating, neither of which he was accused of.

He was reported over a large number of games because a large number of people did not like his strategy in game, people can not like what you do in game, that's expected, I don't like when I have a bad team mate on my team, I don't like when my opponent employs a trick to outsmart me, but those are in game behaviors, not social interactions with other players which this situation is being treated like.

By the logic they said they employed here, we all could report each riven top lane we see in game from now on and eventually every riven would get a manual review and get bans and be told not to play riven top lane or only play it with friends.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

No rank wasn't taken into account, that's why I brought it up. If he can climb much higher than most players using this, then clearly his "behavior" is affecting his team mates much less negatively than what most bronze or silver players are doing, one would even venture to say positively.

They specifically said to not do it, except when in a group with friends so that he wouldn't get reports, and that, and I quote "I understand you want to play singed support, however, your team mates do not want you to play singed support."

He was reported for doing lvl 1 counterjungling and roaming to help other lanes as support Singed. If any of those are inherently against the rules in some way I have not seen them stated. And again, his behavior was not out of line, no cursing or hate speech or negative attitude. He clearly defined what he was going to do before each game started, joined in team fights, and coordinated with the team for ganks so it wasn't that he didn't communicate with the team. And he maintained a positive win rate all the way to plat, so he was not feeding or grieving his team mates. The only buttons left are afking, which he clearly didn't do or he would have got automated bans, not manual reviews, offensive summoned name, and cheating, neither of which he was accused of.

He was reported over a large number of games because a large number of people did not like his strategy in game, people can not like what you do in game, that's expected, I don't like when I have a bad team mate on my team, I don't like when my opponent employs a trick to outsmart me, but those are in game behaviors, not social interactions with other players which this situation is being treated like.

By the logic they said they employed here, we all could report each riven top lane we see in game from now on and eventually every riven would get a manual review and get bans and be told not to play riven top lane or only play it with friends.

The scenario you come up with has never and will never happen. No one's going to ban a top lane riven. They didn't ban him for performing well or poorly. They didn't ban him for roaming a lot. They didn't ban him for playing singed support. They didn't ban him for playing differently than is expected or exploiting mechanics.

They banned him because they saw consistent, negative behavior. We can argue (ineffectively) about this all you want. But you're confusing and manipulating the issue with nonexistent scenarios and poor examples. ANYONE who negatively impacts the game over many games gets banned. That's how the behavior system works and it's been developed to do that by the communities overwhelming response to these kinds of issues. I reiterate my post and ask you to come up with ANY EXAMPLE (this one about singed doesn't apply) where any of questions and answers are proven false. I assure you that you will find none.

MtnDewsh1 votes

{quoted}

What are you even thinking? It doesn't matter if your team is ok with it or not? That's THE WHOLE POINT OF THE PLAYER BEHAVIOR SYSTEM!!!!!

It's to prevent YOUR BEHAVIOR from affecting YOUR TEAM or the enemy team.

This is exactly what I mean by false logic.

Furthermore, the consensus of RIOT and thousands of reported games was that he WASN'T helping his team get closer to the nexus and was in fact hindering them.

Behavior and playstyle/strategy are two totally different things. Lol, another over-sensitive League player who thinks everyone owes them something.

For example: I could have a problem with you going an AP mid/jungle/top when we already have too much AP, but that doesn't mean you should be reported. But shit, with your logic, everyone should be reported so long as someone else has a problem with the way they play.

Jorencice2 votes

He has like a 53% winrate. Some support champs have closer to 60% on mains.

Thus hes actually hurting his team by making them play without a support with a higher winrate. Which affects the adc very negativily.

He should just que top and roam...

ofart2 votes

{quoted}

He has like a 53% winrate. Some support champs have closer to 60% on mains.

Thus hes actually hurting his team by making them play without a support with a higher winrate. Which affects the adc very negativily.

He should just que top and roam...

Really? We're now talking shit because he doesn't have a 60% winrate? Your comment is just ridiculous and winrate doesn't even mean much. It only matters in relation to the level of players you face. You could be awful and have a 60% winrate in Bronze or you could be far better and have a 45% winrate in Platinum.

For most people, high winrates are artificial. It's rare to have a legitimate winrate higher than 55% over a large sample on a champion. What tends to happen is just that people have some champions they perform poorly on and that lowers their MMR. Then, they go back to playing more of the champions they had success with. Since their MMR was lowered from the other picks, they now have an artificially higher winrate on their better champions.

BigBellBrute2 votes

The reality is you do owe your team mates something and that is to be a good team mate. Going in to every game expecting all 4 other players to accommodate you all the time and be your slaves because you want to duo jungle isn't being a good team mate and is in fact poor sportsmanship.

MUSHROOM MIDGET2 votes

feeder mid is a good idea. think of all the shutdown gold

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