The Player Behavior System Needs A Change (Written by the most banned player in the game)

kP54koDbB4··7 votes·1,413 views

Before we get into things, I'm a veteran player, I've played the game for 7 years with no problems until as of late 2014. I was once high d1 before masters came out, and yes, I've become a toxic monster because of the way the community is. But I feel as if my experience in the game with probably over 20,000 games of league played in my life gives me some legitimate grounds to say something about the development of the player behavior system. I am not saying that I should be unbanned because of a player behavior system flaw, Most of my 42 permanent bans are well deserved.

Toxicity is 9 times out of 10 an outlet for angry or upset players, whether they are upset at real life or a game. Lately, as of the end of 2014, toxicity is at an all time high. Not only is toxicity at an all time high, but the entire internet at this point has grown to be too sensitive and honestly at this point I can't stand being part of any community.

Lets review in my opinion which is one of the most unwarranted PERMANENT bans I've gotten in my life. http://pastebin.com/3pQPAkCN [pastebin isnt visible apparently] Now this excerpt is probably the most toxic thing I said after the whole game rolled out and I was more or less infuriated and had enough of the match > C H: ur bad C H: and when I say bad C H: I mean bad as shit C H: beyond bad C H: atrocious C H: you need to uninstall

Now not saying this is an okay thing to say to your teammates but this was the only thing that I said which warrants a chat restriction at most. I was permanently suspended for this game, and many others as I've had over 40 accounts banned. Back in season 3 you could literally say anything you wanted with little to no punishment, but note that SO MUCH LESS toxicity was actually present back in season 3. In CS:GO you can get away with saying the most racist, sexist, hate speech you could possibly think of, but honestly I see more toxicity in league.

I'm sorry but people get angry when their team is thick-headed and uncooperative, you wanna know what they do in a working environment to someone who's thick headed and uncooperative? They fire them, because being thick-headed and uncooperative is just as bad as being an asshole. In a team game where nobody listens to each other anymore, and the fact that riot is so uptight about how people act in the game (Ever since Riot Lyte had a say in the behavior team) that they feel trapped. When you feel trapped, you get angry. The uncooperative players continue to see the light of day when they can get away with whatever they want and the problem never gets solved. The more cause for someone to get angry, the more toxicity surfaces in game. Back when everyone was cooperative (season 1-4) there was a huge decline in toxicity. Personally I've grown to be a VERY angry player, and I tend to lose my patients with people quick, but I give them a chance and try to ask politely, and when that doesn't work I don't want to play the game anymore.

The problem at this point will never be solved and everyone's telling me to go find a new game to enjoy. But I stick around for the amazing champions I do like (Ahri, Irelia, Renekton, Lulu, Graves, Jinx, Lucian, Syndra, Vayne, Gnar, etc.). I stick around because I played this game throughout my entire teenage years (since release in 2009). So I just continue to get new accounts and end up banned because my team wants to not cooperate. League saved my life in a way, and it helped me connect with some of the coolest people on the internet, including the girl who lives with me now and I plan to marry one day. So when I run around and say stuff like "I don't care about the game, I have the WORLD RECORD for permanent bans on league". It's a bunch of bullshit that I don't care, because I do. I miss the game for what it used to be, and I keep giving the game a chance, and riot a chance to fix the game. I may be a toxic monster spun out of control at this point but I really do care about the game.

Sincerely,

Cheddix / Justin

42 Comments

CooL Ice Tea9 votes

Can we upvote this for a Riot member so he can watch over this 42 accounts bans and get this guy banned tyler1 style? I mean 42 holy jesus ... this is on purpose.

kP54koDbB42 votes

Sure, I would love a riot member to come on here and discuss it with me, so maybe we might be able to get something positive done at the expense of my indefinite suspension from the game.

Pew Pew Lasers1 votes

[{quoted}](name=CooL Ice Tea,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=zik3EMoJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-09T08:37:05.997+0000)

Can we upvote this for a Riot member so he can watch over this 42 accounts bans and get this guy banned tyler1 style? I mean 42 holy jesus ... this is on purpose.

He'll just make a new account, obviously.

Deep Terror Nami6 votes

When you look at minor toxicity like this by itself, you're right, it appears to not warrant a permaban.

However, that is not what resulted in your permanent ban. This was just the last straw in a long history of toxic behavior, consistently being a problem in the community.

If someone slaps you lightly once, should you get a restraining order? No, that would obviously be a gross overreaction. What if they spent every waking hour slapping everyone within arm's reach? Yes, something drastic needs to be done eventually when minor punishments have proven to have little to no effect in preventing it. This is how it works here; a punishment isn't just the result of one game usually, but is one on a path of escalation with everything on the road considered.

Some players like to say "Well, there is more toxicity in X season than Y season had". You're going to need to show something more than anecdotal evidence; you personally becoming more toxic over time doesn't reflect on the community, just you. Riot has taken great strides in improving reform of players with the Instant Feedback System and (somewhat) behavior rewards; A player will receive punishment within only 5 minutes of the triggering report, along with a reform card to help them understand where they went wrong.

If a dog shits on the floor and you hit him two hours later, all you're doing is abusing the dog. He will not learn to go outside first, he'll just learn that you enjoy hurting him. I doubt Riot would use this comparison with players, but the concept is essentially the same; people learn from their mistakes more easily if they are corrected immediately rather than when they've already forgotten what they did wrong. The Tribunal voting system was notoriously slow, and no more accurate than the IFS today.

Any player can place blame on Riot, the game, or the community, but in the end they alone are responsible for their behavior. There are tools available to them to improve their situation (such as muting), but if they refuse to use them and are a problem then Riot doesn't have any choice but to push them up that escalating path of punishment until the player decides he wants to change, or gets permabanned. Someone who gets all the way to the most severe punishment yet still does not take responsibility for their own actions has no right to say it wasn't their fault.

kP54koDbB41 votes

I already explained the whole "personal experience study" to someone else in the above comments, however regarding your last paragraph: Muting an uncooperative player or a troll isn't going to change their behavior. Riot will never fix trolling until they implement a system like CS:GO's overwatch system for cheaters. Kids who troll because they didn't get their way just get away with it and the players who tell him to fuck off get punished.

Sarutobi5 votes

What you fail to see though is the fact that punishment works in tiers. So it's not so much about how worse your level of toxicity is, but how frequent it is. Once you get hit with your 2 chat restrictions you are going to move up when it comes to punishment. That is just how it works. You also don't need to vent in the game chat. You have better (more mature ways of) handling your anger when it comes to playing this game, or anything for that matter. Most people probably just yell at the screen or punch a pillow out of anger. They don't call their teammates worthless or that they need to kill themselves and think that is suppose to be good sportsmanlike.

kP54koDbB42 votes

So if players are frequently being thick headed I'm just supposed to sit through it with a smile on my face? Why should anyone else have to suffer around me because I'm angry at someone in a video game and decide to yell at my screen instead of tell him hes garbage in chat? Basically what you're saying is "I don't care if the game causes you to be toxic in any way just as long as I don't have to see it". How does that make the way players act any better? It doesn't.

Sarutobi2 votes

{quoted}

So if players are frequently being thick headed I'm just supposed to sit through it with a smile on my face? Why should anyone else have to suffer around me because I'm angry at someone in a video game and decide to yell at my screen instead of tell him hes garbage in chat? Basically what you're saying is "I don't care if the game causes you to be toxic in any way just as long as I don't have to see it". How does that make the way players act any better? It doesn't.

Absolutely not, what I'm saying there is more mature ways of handling your stress. Hell games are suppose to be relaxing. If this game (or anything in life) is giving you that amount of stress I would suggest to probably leave the game, or at the very least take a break. I've been playing this game for possibly over 5-6 years. I've seen every amount of toxic behavior and I don't let it get to me. If/when the game stresses me out I take a break. Heck because of my work schedule I rarely play during the weekday and mainly play on the weekends!

All I'm saying is no one deserves to be treated like shit. I don't care how badly you are playing everyone has bad days. Plus people get matched up poorly with how matchmaking is so it's understandable at times.

Kitty Cat Tosha3 votes

Where I work, assholes get fired just as quickly as the thick witted ones.

kP54koDbB41 votes

Clearly both are a problem so should they not deal with both accordingly?

Kitty Cat Tosha2 votes

Bad players get demoted. Intentional feeders get banned. Flamers get banned.

Imo they are already being dealt with

kP54koDbB42 votes

They're not being dealt with because I still see the same shitheads in an upwards of diamond 1-2 elo

dominusx2 votes

first of all 42? really not even tyler has gotte to that level imma go to his chat and spamm him beta now till he gets pissed lmao. I agree with what you said about people going soft i mean i type simple things like wtf when our adc flashes in the frontline to kill the enemy support and he goes like wtf stop beeing toxic what the fuck am i supposed to say to him to let him realise that his stupidity lost us the damn fight this is where thick headed ppl come in i've had the same experience as you but i always did something else to cool off (use a punching bag,take a shower,go to the gym etc) so i never really got banned untill recently where i got my 1st perma because apparently talking shit to people who intentionally troll on your road to masters and make you tilt and demote is fine but when you tell them they are shit you make the game negative for them.....bitch the guy is 0-5 in 10minute and has a mobility boot only as item AM I THE ONE MAKING THE GAME NEGATIVE? but w/e dont expect anyone to agree they are brainswashed i'm not gonna go to the point to justify you with so many perma's but i do agree that people are too soft for the internet i personally like trashtalking other high elo players when we play and i like when they trash talk me when they outplay me makes the game spicy and fun and gives you a little fun minigame with your Rivals friendly rivarly is always nice

kP54koDbB42 votes

Agree 100%. There should be a slight level of trash talk to which the players can vent out some of their frustration without having to build up and eventually erupt and tell people things like "Kill yourself" or "Get cancer".

dominusx1 votes

frustration nah.. its just FUN to piss the other guy off and watch him fail his next play only to simply type .?. and bam he tilts that's the way to go i love that and i love it when they do it to me cause i know why they do it when i miss 2 tornados as Yasuo and get my ass kited ahaha it is fun. And i don't have to type get cancer to trashtalk that is not trashtalking that is flat out beeing an asshole (i was one too hehe)

kP54koDbB41 votes

Like yea, it's fun to talk trash to a degree, I do it too. But I've been permed for flat out making jokes that pissed people off.

dominusx1 votes

Just don't talk to anyone after the 14day ban mate simple. People as mentioned are too fucking soft and were probably bullied young to be that soft. I mean when i tell you 'mate you are garbo' when you miss 4 skillshots with Xerath and die then you are garbo its not my fault i stated it but noooo rito said i'm the best diamond 5 player in the world even if i cant hit a spell on a Syndra with tier 1 boots so you are just toxic oohh imma report you.

The Smith of Lie2 votes

{quoted} [...] Lately, as of the end of 2014, toxicity is at an all time high. Not only is toxicity at an all time high,

[...]

Back in season 3 you could literally say anything you wanted with little to no punishment, but note that SO MUCH LESS toxicity was actually present back in season 3. In CS:GO you can get away with saying the most racist, sexist, hate speech you could possibly think of, but honestly I see more toxicity in league. [...]

Citation required.

kP54koDbB41 votes

Citation required for something I'm saying out of personal experience to a high degree? Now you're just being ridiculous.

The Smith of Lie4 votes

You make a claim. It is an overall claim about the global state of the game. Based on "personal experience" it is worthless as a metric.

If crime rates are down, even very considerably, but you ask a person who just got mugged about them, they will tell you crime is on the rise. Because that is their personal experience, even if it goes counter to reality.

Making claims like the ones I quoted and coming to conclusions based on them is very risky if your source is personal experience. We have tons of various cognitive biases. One simple bias that needs to be accounted for is rosy retrospection. You notice how everything was always better in good old times? Was there really less toxicity back in S3 or is it just how your remember it? And that is just example from the top of my head.

Hence the need for citation, yes. At least if we want serious discussion rather then complaints about how everything was better back in good old days.

kP54koDbB41 votes

I'll debunk your second paragraph right now. It's not that I just got out of a single game where people were toxic, or I was toxic. This has been a build up from the past two years, and I've recognized it, it may be worthless as a metric but open your eyes. If I were to survey 20 players who have been playing as long as I have, they would say the same thing. I've had at least 5 people in the past month tell me they miss season 3. Unlike most of the community, I don't mute people when I get annoyed, so I see the whole story every game.

The Smith of Lie4 votes

Shrug. Whatever.

I'll just leave you with a story. It is a very real one. There is a decently big movement that claims vaccines cause autism and hence its member are strongly opposed to vaccination. The claim has been investigated by scientist in multiple studies. Those studies failed to find a link between autism and vaccines.

However members of the movement, based on their personal experience, claim to KNOW that vaccines cause autism and every study that tells that it is not so is a part of conspiracy to hide the truth.

I am happy however that your personal experiences are perfectly reliable and can not be result of cognitive bias or distorted memory. Good to have reasonable, rational people with solid sources of their claims in the community.

kP54koDbB41 votes

Here's the thing, regardless of personal experience in the whole "Vaccines cause autism" movement, they don't visually see the chemicals in their brain being effected by the vaccine, and it was proven wrong by scientists. In the case of the game being more toxic, and the fact that I've been steadily playing multiple games on a daily basis, I've more or less done a mental study on the players of the game. Not to mention there's been no study to prove that we have significantly less toxicity since the changes to the system. Two different scenarios. Keep trying to prove yourself right buddy, but it's not going to solve the problem at hand.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

Shrug. Whatever.

Lmao Your argument dies right there.

The Smith of Lie2 votes

I have long given up on trying to reason with people who have their mind made up from the start. I can write essays about why using personal experience as metric is flawed. And then get answered "but this is what I feel from my games" over and over again.

If you feel that he won the discussion just cause after making my point once I don't keep going in circles... Shrug Whatever.

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

Citation required for something I'm saying out of personal experience to a high degree? Now you're just being ridiculous.

Personal experience is flawed by personal bias. Seeing as you didn't record your encounters and you are thinking two years back, a relatively long time, you recollection is going to be flawed.

Astôlfo2 votes

If you're the most banned player in the game, you're also one of the dumbest, because you still apparently haven't learned jack from being banned that many times.

kP54koDbB41 votes

No, you clearly don't get it. I'm not going to shut my mouth and let thickheaded kids run around the rift and ruin games for people. They need to be told to smarten the fuck up

Astôlfo2 votes

Point proven. Enjoy your 43rd whenever that may be.

kP54koDbB41 votes

It's already happened buddy. See you in solo queue :)

Votable Jester1 votes

So the ultimate question was "How many times has this guy been banned?"

Just a small edit: Did anyone notice the reference I made?

kP54koDbB41 votes

42 times and counting. I don't doubt that I'll have a couple more in the future, hopefully not, but probably will.

Votable Jester3 votes

TBH I don't really see how you can be banned that often. I've been playing since S3, and have never received so much as a chat ban. I am a rather mellow person though. While I do try to tilt my opponent every now and then, I never outright insult them, and am generally nice to them after the game (sometimes offering some advice to deal with the situation).

I think it all comes down to our individual perceptions on what should and should not be allowed in the chat. I find it reasonable for Riot to punish players for outright insulting the other players. There's a difference between telling someone they made a mistake and telling them that they're terrible and should uninstall. Other people consider that to be part of the fun of a sport.

Riot had to draw the line somewhere, and I think that being more conservative with it was the right call. If incidents were to occur (suicides possibly?) even just partly as a result from the toxicity of the community and Riot wasn't doing anything about it, it could ruin them. While this may make the game a bit less fun for those who feel the need to "vent frustration" through the chat, it is the far safer business strategy, and remains just as fun (or more fun) for those who are not so expressive. Even still, there are plenty of people who do vent some of their frustration without being banned, so it isn't as though you can't say anything negative at all, you just have to keep yourself from taking it too far.

kP54koDbB41 votes

Like I said, it wasn't right of me to tell my teammate they were atrocious and to uninstall, I wouldve given myself a chat restriction for that. If someone legitimately is going to commit suicide if they're told they aren't good at a video game, they need to IMMEDIATELY SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP. Things like "Kill yourself" should still be punishable.

Votable Jester1 votes

Yeah I wasn't saying that specifically against you. You do seem to be a bit rough on people (probably pretty rough at times), but I feel like you have your limits. This was more an explanation of why I think Riot takes such a stance on toxicity in the game.

The suicide part was a bit exaggerated, but it could entirely happen with a community this massive.

kP54koDbB41 votes

Honestly with unstable people, even not smiling at them as you walk past them on the street could trigger a suicidal thought, I've been down the road previously and at that point you need some help. Yes, I get rough with people, quite rough out of anger. But when I'm content I'm all for improving the community as a whole. Me being so toxic, is part of the problem, but I can't improve by myself, I want the entirety of league of legends to improve with me. There wouldn't be a need for toxicity if we dealt with uncooperative people.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

I agree with that 100%. I eventually got permabanned after a bunch of prior suspensions, all stemming from the fact that I would call my teammates "bad". And even though I got multiple restrictions before being perma'd, I never changed. I could ever understand or comprehend why calling someone "bad" warranted any punishment at all.

A player who is actually bad enough for me to call them bad, would be something like 0/10. And despite them creating an extremely frustrating experience- being 0/10, directly giving me loss, taking away earned LP, and wasting at least 30 mins of my time, I would call them "bad". While regularly hearing insults of "autism", "kill yourself", etc, I didn't think "bad" could even be considered punishable.

kP54koDbB41 votes

Some people need to hear it the harsh way before they can realize "Hey, maybe I'm the one making the mistake and it's not my team's fault why I got solokilled in lane".

GamblerOfLives1 votes

so, you had 42 perma bans..and you said nothing about the system, until this ban..42th ban:)..WHY COME NOW OUT OF THE CLOSET???

kP54koDbB41 votes

I've been saying shit about the system since it began to be bad

Ellis McPickle1 votes

I think everyone here can agree, you should stop playing this game all together and seek professional help for being so angry over a video game.

Water Vapor1 votes

This would trigger Riot Lyte

More from Player Behavior

More by kP54koDbB4