Boards›Player Behavior

A Proposal for player Moderation

CloakAndGrenade··4 votes·805 views

So, it is no secret to anyone that perma-banning rarely seems to keep the truly toxic players out of the community, and for the worst eggs of the bunch, there probably isn't a real way to do so. Toxicity in newbie levels is an often debated topic on this section of the forums. For me personally however, I find that the most times that I get heated, or see someone else get heated, is in chat. Some kind of argument, flaming, what have you. I think alot of players who even aren't necessarily toxic on their own, get baited hard by others into having a heated word battle instead of a summoner's rift one. So, why not a permanent chat ban?

And I don't mean a "Chat suspension" type of ban, I mean completely removing the ability to see and send messages to the players in the game, and vice versa. You take away their ability to argue, and the ability for anyone to bait them in chat, I think alot of players would calm down. Sure, people can hit that mute button, but if someone is to the point of being penalized, they aren't going to. Especially if they are the type to try and reason with the person first. (reason and logic generally devolve into mindless bickering pretty quickly in league.)

Toxicity and tilt are like a disease. A player rarely just starts off toxic, they become that way over time. It is something that kind of eats away at you. It drains your Patience, your sympathy, and your ability to focus. It frays away at your sanity until you become the very thing you swore you'd never be. I think for most people, having peace and quiet in their games would set them right, and, with their account still instated, they wouldn't simply create a new account and go run rampant on new players. They may even reform entirely! Of course, the truly toxic ones will resort to running it down mid, but they do that anyway. I think the benefit this would have would outweigh the few bad eggs that would simply find new ways to make the game unfun for everyone involved to compensate for the lack of hugs they received as a child.

36 Comments

xKillamonjarox4 votes

I agree 110% I was just perma banned on my main account for this very reason It truly makes no sense to permanently ban someone for typing

cussing someone out should not be on the same punishment tier as intentionally feeding / cheating/ and griefing

Waljkyria1 votes

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101Evsey2 votes

I agree but also disagree. I love the idea of them getting banned from spreading hurtful words. But by doing so at the same time, there is a chance they will just lash out in other ways like feeding.

Words hurt. It is not nice or funny telling someone to kill themselves cause they died etc. It is not funny flaming your friend in chat for being stupid. It is not funny telling people to uninstall the game cause they are shit.

At the same time. I strongly suggest that RIOT gets ACTUAL people to read the chat logs. Bots isn't good enough, you need to get people to do this for a few reasons:

  1. that way actual people can see and experience what their players see and go through.
  2. people are better at telling the difference between a sarcastic message and a threat.
  3. hopefully by getting actual employees of RIOT to experience what their customers (cause us players are their customers) they will hopefully change the ban system to better suit it.

SO MANY TIMES have myself or other people I play with have had to quit games, simply due to how hurtful and threatening other players have been in chat. Do you want to know what happens when you ditch a game due to being bullied and told to kill yourself? You get a 20 MINUTE wait time before you can join games again.

THE PERSON WHO LEAVES DUE TO BULLYING GETS PUNISHED. WHILE THE BULLIES DON'T.

What sucks, even more, is people say "just mute them". That isn't the point. That person you want us to mute is literally bullying and being terrible to their own team-mates. We shouldn't have to mute bullies or ignore bullies, we should be able to play games without stressing about if we are going to get flamed that day.

Why not just quit league if you don't like the people? Because there are so many wonderful people out there! The game is fun! The lores and time and effort put into the creation of each character and backstory is amazing! Why should we have to leave a game due to bullies? (plus some we spend money on this game and don't want our money going to waste due to some people hating)

hopefully, Riot employees will see this message. Because for too long have toxic people dictated this game. If you ban one account, they just make another.

Your honour system and report system are failing.

Please, RIOT do something! Because it is getting to the point where people are starting to leave the game, or sell their accounts to others as we can no longer put up with this.

to wrap this message up: Being a TOXIC player does not make you a BETTER player. :D

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I concur. This was well-reasoned.

101Evsey1 votes

Yes, and the main factor that makes this so important is it isn't just one region being affected by this. This effects players no matter where you live. Whether it be NA, OCE, Korea, etc this issue is seen across all regions. So it isn't just a simple problem anymore, This is a major problem RIOT for too long has put off.

archerno11 votes

IF toxic person cannot display his toxicity using chat, he will just show it through his gameplay. Goal is to remove those people from community. If you reached point of perma ban, you arent welcome here anymore.

xKillamonjarox3 votes

wrong. I've been perma banned due to chat and I would never even think about inting. Riots chat standards are far too strict and are impersonal as they are handled by a bot. resulting in a lot of people with boisterous personalities being banned for either arguing with a toxic person, or making edgy jokes and being reported by some introvert that hates extroverts

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

wrong. I've been perma banned due to chat and I would never even think about inting. Riots chat standards are far too strict and are impersonal as they are handled by a bot. resulting in a lot of people with boisterous personalities being banned for either arguing with a toxic person, or making edgy jokes and being reported by some introvert that hates extroverts

Well thats what happenned when riot tried escalating chat restrictions. Toxic people that had chat limited transfered chat toxicity into gameplay toxicity.

xKillamonjarox1 votes

I feel that experiment was insufficient, since it applied chat restrictions for an entire control group instead of just toxic people.

this is how the process is now:

Toxic chat--->Report----> Perma ban

This is how it should be:

Toxic chat---->Report---->Chat banned---->Toxic Gameplay--->Report---->Perma ban

Players like myself and videogamedunkey would be saved by the extra step. This is the very reason videogamedunkey quit league

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

I feel that experiment was insufficient, since it applied chat restrictions for an entire control group instead of just toxic people.

this is how the process is now:

Toxic chat--->Report----> Perma ban

This is how it should be:

Toxic chat---->Report---->Chat banned---->Toxic Gameplay--->Report---->Perma ban

Players like myself and videogamedunkey would be saved by the extra step. This is the very reason videogamedunkey quit league

Ok. You mentioned Dunkey. You just lost any credibility u had and removed any doubt that your perma was deserved...

He quit league because he is toxic guy that wanted special treatment because he was famous. He also lied about game that got him banned

xKillamonjarox1 votes

Dunkey was banned for his chat. This thread is about banning people for their chat. What's unclear here?

xKillamonjarox1 votes

{quoted}

He quit league because he is toxic guy that wanted special treatment because he was famous. He also lied about game that got him banned

2 things.

  1. Dunkey is not toxic. beyond watching his content for years, last year I actually MET the guy. he's one of the nicest humans on the planet. He puts on the ass hole troll persona for his youtube videos.

  2. even if he wasn't banned for some kind of chat issue, he did make a point of it in his video and it is a VERY real problem. take 5 min to read through the post coming through on this forum. a disgusting amount of them are for people who aren't even toxic banned for defending themselves or riots ban bot completely blowing someones comment outta context and penalizing them

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

2 things.

  1. Dunkey is not toxic. beyond watching his content for years, last year I actually MET the guy. he's one of the nicest humans on the planet. He puts on the ass hole troll persona for his youtube videos.

  2. even if he wasn't banned for some kind of chat issue, he did make a point of it in his video and it is a VERY real problem. take 5 min to read through the post coming through on this forum. a disgusting amount of them are for people who aren't even toxic banned for defending themselves or riots ban bot completely blowing someones comment outta context and penalizing them

  1. Dunkey was very toxic on League. Game he shown on stream was just one of many where he displayed extreme toxicity

  2. His points were how he should be given special treatment because he was promoting game on his videos. His biggest issue was that Riot didnt wanna do him special favor and unban him so he can finish video. He also said that only fun part of game for him was talking shit to people and insulting them.

Chermorg2 votes

It did not apply chat restrictions to players who were not toxic.

CloakAndGrenade1 votes

I am not suggesting that anyone has been given chat restrictions on false pretenses. What I am suggesting, is an alternative form of punishment, that would allow players who have become toxic over time environmentally, to cleanse themselves rather then just recycle back into the system on a new account. Removing the ability to see and use chat entirely could be outright therapeutic for some, and could rehabilitate some players.

Chermorg1 votes

The percent of players that applies to is exceedingly small. By the time an account is permabanned, it is extremely unlikely that person would've reformed given one, two, or seven more chances. Riot has said they have no plans to increase the amount of chances given because for well over 9 players out of 10 that will just increase the number of games they can affect before they are permanently banned.

I understand that some people may reform later on. However, that is why they are not prohibited from returning on another account. Once an account is permanently banned it stays so, both as a deterrent to ever doing it again and as a deterrent for others from being toxic enough to get permabanned. If Riot handed accounts back, it would not be as severe a punishment as it is now and would lose quite a bit of it's power.

xKillamonjarox1 votes

we're both still talking about when they tested the chat restriction 4 years ago in PBE yes? the system used there is what we have on the main client today. It does not lead to perma chat restrictions or bans. but riot will perma ban you from the game over it speech.

The point remains, the current system is broken. Riots bot will ban a person for using swear words rather than for being toxic. Riot lyte especially preaches the main focus is to help players not be toxic. but in system where word choice is synonyms with toxicity this is impossible.

CloakAndGrenade1 votes

Yes, but the people that were/are chat restricted can still read chat, and they still get a message every couple of minutes. What Im proposing is a removal of chat entirely. Communication through pings exclusively. Maybe even implementing a system to not allow missing pings within a certain distance of a allie players champion other than your own. Most of my penalizations have been me being baited into an argument. I don't want to just cut off communication, so I try to reason with them, and it ends up getting heated. A removal of chat would disavow that entirely, and remove my main source of tilt, to provide an example.

CloakAndGrenade3 votes

Doubtful. Its pretty rare for someone to int feed or run it down mid. And even then, usually a five minute long flame and argument in chat proceeds it.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

Doubtful. Its pretty rare for someone to int feed or run it down mid. And even then, usually a five minute long flame and argument in chat proceeds it.

Thats what happened. You can doubt it all you want. Vast majority of toxic people who racked up hundreds of chat restrictions turned to gameplay toxicity since they couldnt use chat. So Riot had to design this new system we have.

Mindspeaker1 votes

{quoted}

IF toxic person cannot display his toxicity using chat, he will just show it through his gameplay. Goal is to remove those people from community. If you reached point of perma ban, you arent welcome here anymore.

This ^^^ its actually been proven by right Riot that chat bans are ineffective if i remember correctly i think Lyte did a post about this... toxic players still end up rage quitting , feeding and "non participating ( afk roaming to beat leave buster" if they don't like the way a match is going.

that is beside the point though if you were toxic enough to get a perma ban you don't deserve to be here period

Magical Player1 votes

I mean tell me a valid reason to use hate speech and suggesting self harm to others? Then we start discussing

xKillamonjarox1 votes

Context is EVERYTHING something riots system does not account for. players are banned by a bot that searches for swear words, slurs, and hate speech regardless to how they're used

the true debate then becomes. are we trying to ban words? or are we trying to remove toxicity and hate?

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

Context is EVERYTHING something riots system does not account for. players are banned by a bot that searches for swear words, slurs, and hate speech regardless to how they're used

the true debate then becomes. are we trying to ban words? or are we trying to remove toxicity and hate?

Context doesnt matter at all. You agreed to rules. It doesnt matter why u broke them. All that matters is that u broke terms of an agreement.

We are trying to remove toxic people from this game.

CloakAndGrenade2 votes

Im not proposing anything is justified. What I'm suggesting is an alternative form of punishment focused on reform rather then recycle.

Magical Player1 votes

Great job of avoiding my question Allow me again to restate it When is it valid to use hate speech or promote self harm?

Riot is trying remove toxicity and hate as my question is directly is asking for you to give context to an appropriate usage of hate speech and or a message promoting self harm. Riot seems to believe those two to be extremely toxic, but you seem them as words. So I ask again When is it appropriate to use hate speech or self harm messages?

xKillamonjarox1 votes

I didn't avoid anything my answer just went over your head. Words are nothing more than tools to express emotion. The dreaded N word has been used through history BOTH as hate speech AND a term of endearment This is why I said "Context is EVERYTHING"

It is wrong if a hateful person is spreading hate to other people BUT there is no harm done if a person is using words like "%%%%%" "%%%" or "kill yourself" in casual context Riot uses a bot to ban people. a bot cannot tell the difference between the two scenarios.

beyond this, there are times in life where being aggressive is justified. Riot however philosophies that everything should be taken sitting down, because it's easier for them to just ban all parties involved rather than actually solve the root of each issue

Magical Player1 votes

There is no rationale way to use "hate speech" "When is it valid to use hate speech or promote self harm?" is my question you still have not given a way to use hate speech in an appropriate way

Which would stand to reason you know that hate speech is always hate speech regardless of context Bot can't determine weather hate speech is bad or good based on context.... there is no context that condones hate speech hate speech is hate speech because it is demeaning a grp of people weather u agree with it or not hate speech is hate speech even if you think its okay for you to say

xKillamonjarox1 votes

You're one of those people who think nlgga should never be said huh? lol. we view the world differently.

Magical Player1 votes

"beyond this, there are times in life where being aggressive is justified. Riot however philosophies that everything should be taken sitting down, because it's easier for them to just ban all parties involved rather than actually solve the root of each issue"

Times in your life where aggression is justified so you're going to tell people to kys over a game.... and you don't see a problem here?

xKillamonjarox1 votes

you're viewing the world as either black or white, right or wrong. that's not really how the world works.

times where aggression is justified? how bout if someone breaks into your house? did you know by law you can kill them? aggression in this case is justified. if assaulted, self defense is justified. but if youre verbally attacked in league, riot says if you respond you're in the wrong... see a discrepancy?

this is why i said context is important. if i told someone to kill themselves and actually meant literally commit suicide. thats VERY wrong but if thats not the intentions there is no problem.

Magical Player1 votes

Inside the game when is aggression justified. nobody is defending their self you have a super easy option mute them, that is an option has given you but people would rather start "defending" themselves by harassing the harasser go die to tower reset or the infamous kys phrase that the majority of usage is used to promote self harm great if you don't see it that way, riot does if you want context to matter open a support ticket and explain to them that your usage of kys was to get people to suicide to tower and hey that may work kinda like explaining why you killed someone

xKillamonjarox1 votes

the same force that has us continually replying to one another even though we won't agree upon this is the same force that causes people to argue during league matches. Pride. no one wants to be wrong, especially when your core beliefs are being called into question the people on continually arguing that toxic people must be removed from league are no better than the people they hate. they're just on a different platform using less cuss words lol. pride is the motivating factor for both parties.

you cant chastise a person defending their beliefs while playing a video game when here you are defending your beliefs on the internet as well. yet riot expects us to treat their game like some kind of holy ground where disagreements cannot be had. It's unreasonable.

your analogy there at the end has no correlation with our conversation.... at all.

Here's a nice fact for you, and this will be the last I talk about tone and context: the 7-38-55 rule. when communicating 7 percent of communication is what you say 38 percent is your tone of voice 55 percent is your body language

This is why things like sarcasm is so difficult to detect through text. the true meaning of someones words are often lost through text.... which is all riot gives players to talk to each other with

lets say my top laner gets a double kill, and i tell him "wow dude your fukin trash kill yourself" given the context this is obviously a joke. but my top laner is a hapless cuck like you, he might take it personally, report me, and i'll get banned over a joke.

that's all i have the patience for, enjoy the holidays

Magical Player1 votes

7% is what you say 38% is tone and 55% is body language and as you have already said riot only has the 7% of text "banned over a joke" great man joking with random people not knowing their personal beliefs or their life struggles When you remove tone and body language nothing is a joke, what you say is what you mean. Saying things are obvious is pointless, since common sense ("which can be superficially plausible and sometimes right, but often wrong")

you think telling people to kill themselves is a joke, we're not 13 years old playing cod on the xbox In addition you may be able to justify to the support about a "fringe" case such as the example where you were only "joking" with your top laner after he secured a double.(I doubt it, but hey maybe, theres always hope)

Aside from you're trying to berate me "hapless cuck" great usage of the word hapless, not many use it on the boards

Where is a self harm joke acceptable inside the game, where is hate speech acceptable inside the game Heck where inside a room with 4 other random strangers is hate speech and or self harm acceptable? If you can "context" to me that in the real world you would tell random people to kill themselves and spout off hate speech, I'll agree to your point whatever it may be

AJStarhiker1 votes

They've already tried indefinite chat bans. They gave out bans for varying number of games, adding more games on based changes the player made to their behavior: decreasing with improvement or increasing with worsening behavior.

Some players racked up hundreds and even thousands of games to play off their restrictions. Not only that, they shifted their pattern of harrassment from chat (easy to detect) to gameplay (harder to prove toxicity vs. just a bad game).

xKillamonjarox1 votes

all this really means is riot decided to take the easy way out by banning people who wouldnt grief but like to talk shit by lumping them all together in one group

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