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What is Riot's official stance on bullying and victimization?

fuzzybunny00··2 votes·2,965 views

My views: Bullying is not acceptable. Positive communication should always be encouraged. Self-respect should always be encouraged.

Something I've noticed here and would like to see improved: Self-respect in the face of adversity and the communication of such is often discouraged.

  • "Don't respond to X"
  • "Responding will get you banned too"

Why I care: An atmosphere that ignores bullying instead of confronting it does not address the issue of bulling. There are many factors in the report system that are intended to address this, but the processes that discourage individuals from standing up for themselves in real time is damaging to the individual. Taking abuse without standing up for oneself feeds into a mentality of victimization. I do not want to see the mental health of players continue to suffer because of this misalignment.

https://www.stopbullying.gov/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-couch/201702/6-smarter-ways-deal-bully https://bullyvaccineproject.com/why-ignoring-them-doesnt-work-2/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/traversing-the-inner-terrain/201102/the-victim-identity

27 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon14 votes

The thing is that retaliation is not defense. You being toxic back to them is not a defense, it's retaliation.

Self defense in this instance is denial and muting. Not "deny and attack back", just "deny". Not "Mute and keep flaming them to get back at them for flaming you", just "Mute". And specifically about denying...It does nothing anyways. And don't repeat what they said.

Self defense is using the reasonably smallest amount of aggression needed to remove yourself from danger. If a bully attacks you, you're supposed to put forward enough of a fight to get them off of you then leave, not keep hitting them after they're already off of you. In League, the minimum reasonable force from you is to mute them, and any court that took a case like this remotely seriously would agree.

fuzzybunny002 votes

Standing one's ground while under attack, physical or verbal, is not retaliation. To claim such is to reward the aggressor with an inalienable defense.

Also, stating this again, simply muting someone solidifies their statements as being unanswered, and as such, accepted. This is how communication works in the real world and to pretend that basic principles of communication do not apply here because of a mute button is naive.

DuskDaUmbreon7 votes

Standing one's ground and flaming them back are completely different things.

And, sure, the statement's unanswered immediately until you answer it with the goddamned report button in post-game.

GatekeeperTDS2 votes

What in-game bullies want is attention. They want to get a reaction out of you. The best way to defend yourself and take the wind out of their sails is to not give them what they want.

Standing up for oneself can take many forms, and ignoring a ragebaby with self-esteem problems is one of them. Riot is against verbal retaliation because it distracts from the game and aggravates the innocent bystanders (the rest of the people in the game). Internet 101, dude - don't feed the trolls.

Kei1433 votes

Can we have you define what it means to stand up for yourself or someone in game?

fuzzybunny001 votes
  1. Stating a factual account of what happened.
  2. Not sitting quietly and taking/witnessing the abuse.
Kei1431 votes
  1. Won't get you punished
  2. What would be the person doing when not sitting quietly?
zPOOPz1 votes
  1. Don't mean to nitpick you, but stating a factual account of what happened by repeating what someone said most definitely will get you punished if that factual account includes ZT and you repeat it. Sometimes support won't even lift or reduce that ban.
Kei1432 votes

Man you are really nitpicky here. In the current context of discussion of defending others from bullies and stating a factual account of what happened, I am sure he is not referring to ZT words.

It's more in the lines of;

Toxic: this dude is inting, he died under enemy tower OP: no he's not, he got grabbed by blitz after blitz used minion dematerializer on the minion he was using as cover.

When you over complicate your answer with different scenarios, it just ends up confusing the people you are trying to help.

Luxanna Ahegao1 votes

and that's exactly why bullies exist they know "the minimum reasonable force" is the worst they could get before getting away with it you talk like someone who doesn't mind the existence of bullying, that behavior runs on every fucking nerve i have to see a fucking sick bully do their sadistic action and none to stop them is disgusting enough i don't want to be an other fking bystander so i will never push off a bully then leave, never, sorry

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Granted, but I'd add part of the problem is that the one retaliating can be the only one getting punished, when the instigator should be as well for deliberately provoking.

Telephone Booth2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xvseJQb3,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-06-04T18:50:35.237+0000)

Granted, but I'd add part of the problem is that the one retaliating can be the only one getting punished, when the instigator should be as well for deliberately provoking.

Then people need to understand that account status is a thing when it comes to punishments being handed out. Not everyone is on the same level of how close they are to punishment. So a retaliator can also go without punishment, while the instigator could be punished.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

How close they are to punishment shouldn't dictate whether they get another mark on their account regardless if it is the one crossing the threshold. While you're agreeing with me, that's not always the case, which is why I brought it up.

rujitra11 votes

but the processes that discourage individuals from standing up for themselves in real time is damaging to the individual.

Not sure if you realize that all of the organizations you link don't advocate ignoring, but if you can remove yourself from the situation, ex: by using the mute button, transferring schools/workplaces, etc. that is the advised course of action over being a jackass back.

fuzzybunny001 votes

{quoted}

Not sure if you realize that all of the organizations you link don't advocate ignoring, but if you can remove yourself from the situation, ex: by using the mute button, transferring schools/workplaces, etc. that is the advised course of action over being a jackass back.

The advised course of action from a psychological standpoint is to remain steadfast in the face of adversity, speaking out against wrongs.

Would you advise every person who has an aggressor at school or work to keep transferring indefinitely until life is perfect?

rujitra9 votes

When a transfer places absolutely no impact on the person being bullied, yes, that would be the recommended course of action.

You are attempting to twist the field of psychology to fit your personal viewpoint while not acknowledging the differences between a video game and real life, and a mute button versus real life actions.

Kei1435 votes

You can stand up for yourself, you just can't counter flame them.

Tuition Fee3 votes

It's perfectly acceptable to tell someone to stop picking on your teammate/you. A simple "Stop flaming them" never gets you punished, unless you start an argument.

ChrisBrownze2 votes

It's easier to ban anyone who participates in negative discussion regardless of who started it. So riot does it this way. It's simply the easy way out.

Ph03n1xb1rd2 votes

But by bullying a bully you just become a bully and other non-bullies will start bullying you (the newly formed bully) and they become bullies as well.

fuzzybunny001 votes

Standing up for yourself is not bullying a bully. That would be taking it further, which is also incorrect. The issue that bothers me most here, is that bullies tend to travel in groups, and they are for have the ability to create false reports against the same person that they were bullying. The system's auto penalty after multiple reports then punishes the person who was bullied. That, I find unacceptable.

Ph03n1xb1rd3 votes

The system's auto penalty after multiple reports then punishes the person who was bullied. That, I find unacceptable.

Wrong. Report count does not matter only if you were reported or not. (At least this is what Rito says.)

fuzzybunny002 votes

I am glad to see that people are commenting on this thread. The general consensus here seems to disagree with me, but that is exactly why I posted this. The current community mindset of ignoring a problem does not help prevent future problems. This community should not encourage a platform that allows aggressors to say what they want, without rebuttal.

Telephone Booth2 votes

I think people on here tell others to just mute because we doubt the person knows how to handle it delicately without getting punished. We dont trust that the person can defend themselves without insulting people, so its easier to say "just mute, ignore, report". Whereas I, and many others, will definitely let it be known that someone bullying me is in the wrong, while avoiding any punishment. I just understand the rules, and many people playing are either too young, or too ignorant to understand how to "defend yourself" without retaliating/insulting.

Believe it or not, you are allowed to defend yourself. You can tell someone theyre wrong. You cant spend a lot of time carrying on an arguement or calling for everyone to report the bully.

fuzzybunny001 votes

Just to be clear, I am not discouraged by down votes on this topic. My stance is in protection of those who clearly are not able to receive from those who state that a mute button is all of the protection that someone needs. The mute button is a tool that can be used to silence something from view, but it solidifies the conversation. This is not a one size fits all issue. Treating it that way is a disservice.

Subdue1 votes

None of the sources you cite agree with your premise...

https://www.stopbullying.gov/

"There are things you can do if you are being bullied:

Look at the kid bullying you and tell him or her to stop in a calm, clear voice. You can also try to laugh it off. This works best if joking is easy for you. It could catch the kid bullying you off guard. If speaking up seems too hard or not safe, walk away and stay away. Don’t fight back. Find an adult to stop the bullying on the spot."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-couch/201702/6-smarter-ways-deal-bully

6. Strike while the iron is cold.

Sometimes all you have to do with a bully is wait a little while. Rather than exchanging hostilities, step back so that you are not responding in the heat of the moment and meeting them on their own level. Cool heads find solutions more easily than hot ones. Besides, if you step back, they may do the dirty work for you. Rikki Rogers writes that, in the case of a bully using social media for negative purposes, “Never interfere with an enemy while he’s in the process of destroying himself. This is exactly what your bully is doing: marking herself with a big red flag. We may live in a world fully inundated with social media, but all truly professional organizations (and people) understand that this is not the mature way of acting in the workplace. So just ignore it. If your bully keeps it up, you won’t be worrying about her for long.”

https://bullyvaccineproject.com/why-ignoring-them-doesnt-work-2/

Instead, you can command them to stop and when they don’t and they probably won’t, report them. Without fear and without emotion. Just matter of fact. You need to stop. If they don’t, tell a teacher.

EvilDustMan1 votes

You also aren't taking into account the fact you will see the person only a single time.

If it were someone you had to deal with regularly, yes, you would try to politely and neutrally engage them and tell them of your feelings, try and search for a reason, and call in a third party.

There is a shortened version of this. You can say "Hey, let's just focus on the game." If they continue, mute, report, move on, you'll probably never see them again.

The important thing to remember is that they are human too and are reacting out of a childish need to control the situation. Responding with anger only is going to lead to more anger. Yes, you can neutrally assert yourself, "this is just a game, I'm doing my best, let's just play", but there's no TIME for a conversation about addressing their problems and your own.

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