Boards›Player Behavior

New Player Punishment System

Snoochy··3 votes·1,056 views

EDIT: THIS IS A CONCEPT IDEA, VALUES SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

As everyone knows, you occassionally have to put up with trolls. Personally this has made me and several friends nearly quit LoL several times. These trolls are running rampant because the current Tribunal System is regarded as a joke and they feel a few hours or days of suspension is laughable since you can just have other accounts to play on or they just go play another game for a day.

HERE is my proposal. a Credit system of sorts. you start with a base of 100. if you get reported by a player, you lose 2 credit for first offense in a 1 week span, if you get reported again within 7 days, then you lose 5 credit, 3rd offense in 7 days removed 10 and so on. for every credit you lose, it adds 3 minutes to your Queue time and other players with a higher credit are put in front of you. therefore, if a person gets reported for 10 games in a given week, or 5 in quick succession, then they will have a credit of 0 and once attempting to start a queue will not be added to the queue for 300 minutes (5 hours, note that this would require a player to be report more then 10 times in 1 week, basically turns into a ban). the way to regain credits is by playing a game and not getting reported (+1 per game) or paying RP to correct it back to 100 (if you get reported too much to wait it out, or earn it back)

This would provide a functional punishment to the game that would discorage players from trolling and being complete pricks to the fellow players. also if the Troll player wishes to play with friends, then the entire team cannot be listed into the Queue until the Worst Credited player's timer is up. This would slowly weed out the players that are being such trolls. you could perhaps have an alternative to Buy Credit should a player get thier credit reduced to an unsatisfactory level and do not wish to play games to earn it back. This would still prove to be a deterant and would bring potential revenue to Riot to allocate where they wish, e.g. new maps, champs, skins, developement, ect. Of course duration of punishment is subject to change as Riot sees fit. This is simply the concept.

Edit #2: this system is used in other games, and has even been implimented into one or 2 that I currently play and has had a very positive impact of the devout players that enjoy the game as it is intended and no longer dealing with a troll each hour.

24 Comments

Daen4 votes

These trolls are running rampant because the current Tribunal System is regarded as a joke

By whom is the Tribunal regarded as a joke? You are aware, as well, that the Tribunal has not been operational for about two years, yes? It's not being used at all right now.

they feel a 1-3 days suspension is laughable

1-3 day suspensions no longer happen, the shortest possible suspension is 14 days.

if you get reported by a player, you lose 2 credit for first offense in a 1 week span, if you get reported again within 7 days, then you lose 10 credit, 3rd offense in 7 days removed 25 and so on. for every credit you lose, it adds 3 minutes to your Queue time and other players with a higher credit are put in front of you. therefore, if a person gets reported for 5 games in a given week, they will have a credit of 0 and once attempting to start a queue will not be added to the queue for 300 minutes (5 hours).

There are three huge problems with this:

  1. This is extremely unforgiving. A single report ends up adding 6 minutes to your queue time, and a second report within a week would add another 30 minutes on top of that. This is significantly more harsh than LeaverBuster, which is specifically designed to weed out inappropriate behavior without punishing extremely rare accidents.

  2. This credit system would be completely unfair. Many reports aren't actually valid or can't be set up in cases, and this system would be punishing people for getting reported, not getting validly reported. This is a huge issue, and outright breaks the concept.

  3. A five hour queue time is just not OK, in any possible sense. It's totally unreasonable to expect a player to devote at least six hours to play a single League of Legends game, regardless of what sort of punishment you feel he/she should have.

Overall, I see no reason to implement a system like this. The current implementations can result in a permanent ban by level 8 for particularly toxic players, and for most of that time the player would be chat restricted anyway. I can't see a system like this speeding up reform in any appreciable way, and the negatives outweigh the positives to an almost absurd degree.

Itadaki Seieki1 votes

{quoted}

By whom is the Tribunal regarded as a joke? You are aware, as well, that the Tribunal has not been operational for about two years, yes? It's not being used at all right now.

1-3 day suspensions no longer happen, the shortest possible suspension is 14 days.

There are three huge problems with this:

  1. This is extremely unforgiving. A single report ends up adding 6 minutes to your queue time, and a second report within a week would add another 30 minutes on top of that. This is significantly more harsh than LeaverBuster, which is specifically designed to weed out inappropriate behavior without punishing extremely rare accidents.

  2. This credit system would be completely unfair. Many reports aren't actually valid or can't be set up in cases, and this system would be punishing people for getting reported, not getting validly reported. This is a huge issue, and outright breaks the concept.

  3. A five hour queue time is just not OK, in any possible sense. It's totally unreasonable to expect a player to devote at least six hours to play a single League of Legends game, regardless of what sort of punishment you feel he/she should have.

Overall, I see no reason to implement a system like this. The current implementations can result in a permanent ban by level 8 for particularly toxic players, and for most of that time the player would be chat restricted anyway. I can't see a system like this speeding up reform in any appreciable way, and the negatives outweigh the positives to an almost absurd degree.

Daen! D: Why do I see " The Tribunal will take it from here! " when I report someone! I'm sad that you brought this back up. ;_:

Daen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bard to Master,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xY2gzJXN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-12-30T19:56:36.700+0000)

Daen! D: Why do I see " The Tribunal will take it from here! " when I report someone! I'm sad that you brought this back up. ;_:

RIP Tribunal, you are missed!

I'm not super sure how this is done internally, but it might be that people in teh Rito still refer to the current systems as the Tribunal. It's either that or legacy wording that they just haven't gotten around to changing, no idea. There's also the fact that it'll eventually be getting re-released, so maybe it's just not worth the effort to change the wording for a short period of time.

Itadaki Seieki2 votes

When the Tribunal comes, it's going to be CSI:League of Legends all over again.

GOING TO GO SO HARD ON IT I WON'T HAVE ANYMORE CASES.

Daen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bard to Master,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xY2gzJXN,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-30T20:22:06.166+0000)

When the Tribunal comes, it's going to be CSI:League of Legends all over again.

GOING TO GO SO HARD ON IT I WON'T HAVE ANYMORE CASES.

You and me both! VIVA LA TRIBUNAL!

Itadaki Seieki1 votes

To be quite fair, I love the tribunal because I get to read how toxic people are in queues, and I get to help the community in some way.

Most of the time I'm usually in a pentaqueue or duo, so I rarely see toxic people unless I meet unsavory people. ;_;

Snoochy1 votes

In my opinion they need to bring it back and remove the 10 case limit per day, they need to just allow you to review infinite (as long as there are some) and after 10 votes are counted, take action and close that case. I'd do them like 5 hours a day at work. It used to be the only reason I had more then 1 account.

BroBong3 votes

It's a little confusing and will take some refining but i can see this being used as a base template for any future system.

Korillo2 votes

Your proposed system would most certainly increase the amount of trolling, at least in terms of reporting.

Snoochy1 votes

I don't think so, if someone warrants getting reported then they had to have done something to piss that player off such as Harassment, verbal abuse, ect.. but they could also reinstate the old Tribunal System to take care of the filtering.

Draven2stronk4u2 votes

robots fucking suck

all heil mein credits

Snoochy1 votes

Agreed, and I'm surprised I still see them in the lvl1-20 matches.

wilsuport4coffee1 votes

This is really good in theory, but you have a loooot of people who report without a valid reason. Trolling being so....hard to physically prove, someone would have to start sifting through reports personally and no one at riot is going to do that, they've never given enough of a shit to actually take a hands on approach themselves.

I think of this way: Riot does what they do for show. They could very well fix a lot of actual toxic and trolling problems, but they put all their time and effort into just making money. So, as a way to make it look like they care, they implement an automatic system after the tribunal (even though there was 0 reason for the tribunal to come down and stay down for 2 years), so theres 0 on hands approach.

They claim they check some reports personally, and check permabans, but I've seen people get permabanned instantly after reports, obviously not checked by hand, and the other reports are just as instantaneous.

If riot would ACTUALLY fix match making and bring back the original tribunal so real players can read through entire chats themselves, it would probably help a lot, even vs false reports. Hell, even throw in a little replay video so people can watch if they want/ need to. There's a lot riot could do to actually enhance the game and make it way more enjoyable, even outside of reporting, but they just don't for some reason.

Snoochy1 votes

If they reinstate the tribunal, have the votes go towards this credit system, and remove the 10 case limit per person on the voting that used to exsist, then I think it'd solve almost all problems.

Snoochy1 votes

@Dean,

FIrst off, as stated,this is the concept idea. This is obviously subject to change.

Secondly, you are correct. first offense would delay your next game by 6 minutes, if you don't get reported from that game then you get 1 credit back, which then the game after that would be delayed by 3 minutes. After that second game, if you recieve no reports, then your game time would be returned to normal.

I honestly don't see am issue with this because I'm surprised if I get reported more then once in an entire month. Players that are intentionally pricks need an actual discouragement. By the way, several games I've played use this credit system, and typically have a much friendlier player base.

Daen2 votes

{quoted}

Dean

I honestly don't see am issue with this because I'm surprised if I get reported more then once in an entire month. Players that are intentionally pricks need an actual discouragement. By the way, several games I've played use this credit system, and typically have a much friendlier player base.

The average player is reported in around 4.5% of their games, though the vast majority of those reports are thrown out for being false or too infrequent to be included in cases. If we were to assume every player is average, here's some math:

5 games played per day 35 games played per week 4.5% of games result in report 6 minutes added to queue for first report 3 minutes added to queue if not reported in second game

Result: The average player is reported in 1.6 games per week. You, being (I assume) an average player, would have 14.4 minutes in total added to your queue times every week, on average.

Do you feel like you deserve this penalty, even if those reports are completely unfounded? I am slightly below that 4.5% average, and personally I would find it very unfair to have these queue times despite being above average in positivity.

What I'm getting at, here, is that this proposal punishes everyone, not just those that are being negative. The reason Riot's systems are the way they are is that they afford leniency, and to have an accurate setup this needs to be in place.

Snoochy1 votes

Yes, even myself, perhaps then have the first 2 or 3 reports be warnings, after that they affect your credits, and as stated, getting 3 reports in a week would be very easily corrected as long as you don't get reported in quick succession. First report is corrected in 2-3 games, second report would be fully cleared after 5 or so games, ect. So let's say your first 2 are warnings and you get 2 more reports (4 in total) in a 7 day span, that would cause a total delay of 30 minutes (if compounded all at once), so 4 reports in 7 days would only inconvenience you for 30 minutes. That's why the later reports would get more extreme. To the point of a few hours per game, or require RP to correct your credit, similar to paying a Distrupting the Peace Ticket, for being a troll/prick.

Daen2 votes

{quoted}

Yes, even myself, perhaps then have the first 2 or 3 reports be warnings, after that they affect your credits, and as stated, getting 3 reports in a week would be very easily corrected as long as you don't get reported in quick succession. First report is corrected in 2-3 games, second report would be fully cleared after 5 or so games, ect. So let's say your first 2 are warnings and you get 2 more reports (4 in total) in a 7 day span, that would cause a total delay of 30 minutes (if compounded all at once), so 4 reports in 7 days would only inconvenience you for 30 minutes. That's why the later reports would get more extreme.

K we're missing the point here a bit: You are calculating this exclusively based on reports, regardless of whether they are valid or not. Riot will never approve a system that does this, because it's based on information that's more likely to be false than true.

If you were assuming validated reports, not just reports, then we might have something we could discuss. The thing is, however, that by that point the systems already in place are almost at peak efficiency; once those reports get validated they immediately start getting put into cases and used for warnings/punishments.

To the point of a few hours per game, or require RP to correct your credit, similar to paying a Distrupting the Peace Ticket, for being a troll/prick.

The community would have an absolute fit about this, because it means that toxic players could pay money to have their sentences lessened or removed. This is not a feasible addition.

Snoochy1 votes

Ok then perhaps an account gets corrected 5 credit per day in addition to each game clearing minor amounts of credit. Also have it so if a player ever hits 0, then it's a permanent ban? But they could easily tailor the system to account for either unfiltered reports (more forgiving) or bring back the Tribunal and make it strict? As stated, this is strictly the concept ideas, current and forementioned wait tImes and impacts are for the most part irrelevant.

Daen2 votes

{quoted}

Ok then perhaps an account gets corrected 5 credit per day in addition to each game clearing minor amounts of credit. Also have it so if a player ever hits 0, then it's a permanent ban? But they could easily tailor the system to account for either unfiltered reports (more forgiving) or bring back the Tribunal and make it strict? As stated, this is strictly the concept ideas, current and forementioned wait tImes and impacts are for the most part irrelevant.

The question is, what makes this proposed system superior enough to the current setup to scrap literal years of work Riot has done implementing a huge network of systems that already handle toxicity extremely efficiently and accurately? Riot's accuracy numbers are well over 99% with every system they currently have, and they are designed with specific leniencies and severity checks that help them be fair and uncomplicated for the average player.

Snoochy1 votes

Because its not correcting the issue, I play about 20-30 games a week currently due to my schedule, a mix of 50/50 between ARAM and Summoner's Rift. ARAM matches recently have trolls in about 25% of my ARAMS. and about 1 in 10 in summoner rift. I'm including both teams, not just my own. Of my past 8 games, 6 had trolls. One ARAM had a team of 3 trolls that were taking health packs when at full life and never said a word other then " :^) ^.^ :P or ..l.." they were even using flash to steal the health from allies that needed it and would then run into the enemy team/tower to die.

Daen2 votes

{quoted}

Because its not correcting the issue, I play about 20-30 games a week currently due to my schedule, a mix of 50/50 between ARAM and Summoner's Rift. ARAM matches recently have trolls in about 25% of my ARAMS. and about 1 in 10 in summoner rift. I'm including both teams, not just my own. Of my past 8 games, 6 had trolls. One ARAM had a team of 3 trolls that were taking health packs when at full life and never said a word other then " :^) ^.^ :P or ..l.." they were even using flash to steal the health from allies that needed it and would then run into the enemy team/tower to die.

I understand that stuff is frustrating, but it doesn't necessarily mean the current systems aren't working correctly. It is completely impossible for Riot to prevent toxicity, realistically speaking, so their job is to minimize future impacts as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Any trolls you see are probably either just getting started on their toxicity or approaching punishments already, but unfortunately that sort of thing is impossible to get a feel for since you can't see other players' history.

Snoochy1 votes

I know it's not working properly because I have even reported my own friends and family members well over a dozen times for them blatantly cursing at new players or someone that got a bad start and harassed them to the point of rage quit. And no action had been taken, ever, in our like 4 years of playing.

Draven2stronk4u1 votes

{quoted}

EDIT: THIS IS A CONCEPT IDEA, VALUES SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

As everyone knows, you occassionally have to put up with trolls. Personally this has made me and several friends nearly quit LoL several times. These trolls are running rampant because the current Tribunal System is regarded as a joke and they feel a few hours or days of suspension is laughable since you can just have other accounts to play on or they just go play another game for a day.

HERE is my proposal. a Credit system of sorts. you start with a base of 100. if you get reported by a player, you lose 2 credit for first offense in a 1 week span, if you get reported again within 7 days, then you lose 5 credit, 3rd offense in 7 days removed 10 and so on. for every credit you lose, it adds 3 minutes to your Queue time and other players with a higher credit are put in front of you. therefore, if a person gets reported for 10 games in a given week, or 5 in quick succession, then they will have a credit of 0 and once attempting to start a queue will not be added to the queue for 300 minutes (5 hours, note that this would require a player to be report more then 10 times in 1 week, basically turns into a ban). the way to regain credits is by playing a game and not getting reported (+1 per game) or paying RP to correct it back to 100 (if you get reported too much to wait it out, or earn it back)

This would provide a functional punishment to the game that would discorage players from trolling and being complete pricks to the fellow players. also if the Troll player wishes to play with friends, then the entire team cannot be listed into the Queue until the Worst Credited player's timer is up. This would slowly weed out the players that are being such trolls. you could perhaps have an alternative to Buy Credit should a player get thier credit reduced to an unsatisfactory level and do not wish to play games to earn it back. This would still prove to be a deterant and would bring potential revenue to Riot to allocate where they wish, e.g. new maps, champs, skins, developement, ect. Of course duration of punishment is subject to change as Riot sees fit. This is simply the concept.

Edit #2: this system is used in other games, and has even been implimented into one or 2 that I currently play and has had a very positive impact of the devout players that enjoy the game as it is intended and no longer dealing with a troll each hour.

Actually since so many games do this allready There is 100% no reason to vote No As its basically a flawless plan :)[slayer-jinx-wink]

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