ACTUAL RIOT PERMANENT BAN CONVERSATION

PRKcMakC6a·Jul 26, 2016·7 votes·16,238 views

This is for all to read. It is a conversation I had with Riot support. Please feel free to express your thoughts without a filter. No "safe-words" are necessary, as we are all equals here...remember that.

Dear Riot,

After thoroughly reading the Summoner's Code, I am aware how my attitude had such a negative impact on the game and community overall. I have served a lengthy ban and am here asking to lift the permanent ban on my account. I am asking for just one more chance to show that I can be a fair and friendly member of the community. Thank you for your time.

RESPONSE FROM RIOT:

Hey Summoner,

Your account has been permanently banned after being escalated through multiple levels of punishment by our disciplinary audits.

To see the most recent games which led to this action, please log in to the client to view your reform card. While we do our best at Riot Games to encourage reform, we permanently remove players who continue to create negative experiences from our game.

This action is only taken after repeat punishments and we will not lift the suspension under any circumstance.

Although this marks the end of the line, we’re confident that with some reflection you will be able to avoid this kind of situation with whatever new games you decide to play.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

######## [REMOVED NAME] Riot Player Support

My Response:

Hi ########,

That is interesting. So just because I am not a professional player, such as IWILLDOMINATE for example, who as you are aware had a 1 year suspension which was then lifted, I am not subject to that same treatment and fairness? Because you did just say "This action is only taken after repeat punishments and we will not lift the suspension under any circumstance." Pretty sure he was a bit more extreme with the insults and bad attitude than I was. Sounds to me like unfair treatment. So no. This does not mark the end of the line. Thank you for your time.

RESPONSE FROM RIOT:

Summoner,

We have a Player Behavior team in place dedicated to working with these requests, so I need to transfer your ticket. A Player Behavior Specialist will be contacting you as soon as they can.

Please keep in mind that we respond to tickets in the order we receive them, so ‘bumping’ your ticket by sending us additional messages will send it to the back of our queue. This might inadvertently delay our response :(

Thank you for your patience!

######### Riot Player Support

FOLLOW-UP RESPONSE FROM RIOT:

Hey there,

I won't be able to discuss other player's behavior or the punishment they've received (regardless of their status) however I can give a bit of information. All players are held to the same expectations as all other Summoners regardless of status. Some pro players (similar to the ones you've mentioned) not only get their accounts permanently banned and receive a fine, they are also suspended from competitive play. In some cases, their suspension from competition is lifted however their accounts still remain permanently banned.

This account will remain permanently banned indefinitely.

######### Riot Player Support Zaun Wind Magic Research Division

MY RESPONSE:

##########,

So what you are telling me is that Riot makes special exemptions. Wow. And yet, Riot won't lift my suspension from competitive play (i.e. Ranked). That is the epitome of hypocrites. Never once did I say anything homophobic or racist (the two things that Riot claims are the most intolerable) and because of frivolous reporting from people who just claim this umbrella term "toxic" and I am permanently banned. I am not saying that everything I said was OK, nor am I saying that it didn't break the summoner's code on some level, but I was, and am not, nearly as extreme as many players I have seen. Between the taunting, sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. that I have read during play, it does not surprise me that Riot has this problem.

Also, there is something called "in-game banter" which is forever present in any form of competitive play on any level between human beings. It has been, and always will be around. Even in chess, players talk to distract the other. It is part of the psychological aspect of competition. So, either develop a system which only allows for all-chat to consist of "wp, gg" etc.or don't have it at all, and the reporting will stop. I'm sure you are going to follow that up with something along the lines of, "most players..." which is simply not true. MOST players start the game with "gl hf" but from what I have seen, rarely continue in that same fashion. MOST players just aren't reported. And Riot's statistic of being part of the "#% that is toxic enough to receive punishment" is just a statistic that can be skewed in any way Riot sees fit. It is a competitive game that creates frustration sometimes, and sometimes it spills over. Furthermore, yes I understand I had multiple in-game chat suspensions, and I believe a two week suspension from play entirely, but that was before, and this is now. It's called maturity and recognizing mistakes and having remorse. But Riot just wants to be the judge, jury, prosecutor, and clerk. OK. Thank you for your time. I will pass this along to other players and see what the community thinks.

P.S. Don't worry, I will blank out your name so that it is not seen as some type of attack against you personally. Wouldn't want Riot to get the wrong message.

RESPONSE FROM RIOT:

Hey again,

No, all players are held to the same expectations. If other players are negative they're addressed but it doesn't mean we'll overlook your behavior.

When you play League of Legends, you agree to follow our Code of Conduct and the Summoner's code. It's your choice to keep to this however, it doesn't mean we won't take action if you're contributing to the negative impact of the game.

If you post publicly be sure to remove any of your personal information to protect your privacy.

########## Riot Player Support Zaun Wind Magic Research Division

THOUGHTS:

Now what I find interesting here, is that it is clear that Riot does not actually care about improving player behavior. Because if they did, they would see that I have no intention of continuing down the path that I was on before. Not only that, but there should in fact be a warning system describing how/WHEN/why a permanent ban will be implemented if the behavior continues. Not just, "further infractions..." Furthermore, why are some players granted a year suspension (only to be lifted...which by the way completely goes against what they say) while others a 2 week suspension followed by a permanent ban. Sounds rather suspicious and that there is an extreme amount of unwarranted subjectivity on the matter.

I don't expect all readers here to agree with me, if any. But put yourself in my shoes. Think back to times that you learned something from it, and would want to revisit it if you had the chance to. It is hard to stop inertia. And it may have been best at the time to suspend my account. But there is always a chance for redemption on the Rift, why not here? I think it is time for another serious look at how chat is viewed in game.

51 Comments

EvilDustManJul 27, 20169 votes

You misunderstand. If you get banned, that account is gone. So if BillyYumYumTwobyTwo is a world case ranked fiddle top, but he gets banned for toxicity, he may eventually go back to competitive, but his account, BillyYumYumTwobyTwo is gone.

You are absolutely allowed to make a new account when another gets permanently banned. That's what they are saying. Whatever LCS Person has to make a new account and get it back to 30 to play.

DynikusJul 26, 20166 votes

I feel like a lot of this is you misinterpreting what they said. Being suspended from competitive play doesn't mean they can no longer play ranked, that's not the competitive play they're referring to.

PRKcMakC6aJul 26, 20162 votes

Tell me then, what EXACTLY are they saying. Please tell me that you are suggesting an answer for Riot, and defending a hypocritical position. Because, everything is relative. Competitive play is competitive play. And being suspended from competitive play means EXACTLY what it says. Your response literally makes no sense as well..."Being suspended from competitive play doesn't mean they can no longer play ranked, that's not the competitive play they're referring to." What are you talking about?

DrCyanideJul 26, 20163 votes

IWillDominate didn't get their account back.

They had a more severe punishment than you, not being able to compete in the LCS with any account. That was what got lifted.

PRKcMakC6aJul 26, 20161 votes

Didn't he have the same summoner name in the games? Same account? No? And he should have had a more sever punishment than me....he was far more extreme. Maybe I shouldn't have compared myself to such an extreme.

BettnachlegerJul 27, 20161 votes

He got banned from the LCS for 1 year. You can just make a new Account, rank up to challenger or what ever and join a LCS team. IWillDominate wasn't able to do so. (effectively he lost his job ... )

PRKcMakC6aJul 26, 20161 votes

And so they can be suspended from competitive play and not ranked, but because I am not in competitive play (which ranked is for me...competitive, advertised as such) that I am just removed entirely??? Lol. Nice try.

BettnachlegerJul 27, 20161 votes

You can create a new account. Like IWillDominate had to do too.

BlueThingamajigJul 26, 20166 votes

iwdominate got all of his accounts permabanned.

All of them.

None of them EVER came back. He had to make a new account just like everybody else. After a year, Riot decided that he could use his new account, that he leveled on his own after the other accounts were permabanned, to play in the competitive circuit.

I'll restate this in another manner. iwdominate received two different punishments. From the player behavior team, he received a total account permaban. From the esports team, he received a 1-year ban. The first is still in effect. The second expired after dom demonstrated that he had reformed as a player and stopped being a toxic ass.

PRKcMakC6aJul 26, 20163 votes

Roger that. Thank you for clarifying. Still absurd. Why not just allow him access back to his account if he is reformed???? Again, absurd.

DrCyanideJul 26, 20165 votes

Why not just allow him access back to his account if he is reformed?

So that they treat LCS players and average Joe's the same. They can't go and review every average Joe's smurfs to see that they've actually changed.

PRKcMakC6aJul 26, 20161 votes

Right....unless they are asking for a review. And a chance to prove it.

DrCyanideJul 26, 20161 votes

They'd want to check for other smurfs, making sure you don't have a "good" smurf and one where you carry on in the same behavior that got you banned.

Every permabanned player would want a way to reclaim their account, but historically it hasn't panned out well. From what I've heard, way back when they use to have a way to get permabanned accounts back, but so many people failed in the process that it was discontinued.

PRKcMakC6aJul 26, 20161 votes

That is too bad.

BettnachlegerJul 27, 20161 votes

They already did something like that. 95% of the reviewed players failed. (they had to lvl a account to lvl 20 without any punishment)

VikådinJul 22, 20174 votes

Because it's impossible to level anything to 20 in this game without a punishment because saying "GG" will get you 5 enemy reports if you beat them. And yes, this has happened to me so many times I would have to really dig to find all the e-mails of empty tribunal reports from 2012 and 2013 where I had 6 or 7 reports, a steller KDR, carried the game and only said 1 or 2 things, such as "GG WP" or "GJ". The problem is people are too over sensitive, not that people are too toxic.

Toughen up. Seriously it's pathetic. Get off the internet if you can't handle certain letter combinations and find them offensive.

If I call you a really nice person with the meaning and intention in my mind that you're an effing Ahole who I want to murder with my bare hands, why is that acceptable to you but saying "you should (move from aoe, not attack in bush, ward the river etc.)" with the intent we work together to improve and win, is offensive and bannable? This happens over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and... get the point? It's non-stop. Because people report for BS reasons, and riot in their "infinite wisdom" (can you feel my intent through my words? get my meaning?) keep enabling these crybaby losers to cry and be babies and losers.

TL DR; IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE MEAN WORDS, GET THE F**K OFF THE INTERNET!!!!!!! GO PLAY IN THE SAND BOX WITH YOUR PLASTIC ANIMALS OR SOMETHING, INFANT!!!!!!!

EskTheOgreSep 18, 20171 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/iF3hJXog-unfair-bannings-that-are-legit-thievery just got perma banned look at the shit i said. not remotly offensive and they where mostly trolls. they are just sjw's .

Sorin AlucardSep 18, 20171 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

I laughed hard at "INFANT" XD

Did you actually get some sort of punishment for those bogus reports?

Claudius RuthvenSep 13, 20171 votes

Hey Riot, how about doing a dystem that gives the perma banned players a second chance, and if they failed, well tok bad it means that they din't give a single f*** about their accounts, but we people thst want to change surely do, that line of thought that you guyd have of all players beeing equal is just absurd, and if you just stated that you already tried that with permabanned players and not now, it gives much more reason to what this fellow said, you gave players who didn't cared about their accounts a second chance and do not give the players who actually care about their accounts and want them back one last chance to prove that they have changed, i am trying to get my account back because my bro offered me the highlander tryndamere skin when the vault oppened, i was so happy to receive that skin, my brother means a lot to me, and i am doing this because i don't want to f*** something that my bro offered me to go to a dumpster at Riot's headquarters, it just reforced the term of hypocrit that the summoner who posted this is stating

VikådinJul 22, 20172 votes

Because then they wouldn't get to charge him again for all his champs and skins. It's all about money with Riot.

Horse GrenadesJul 27, 20163 votes

OP, I can only assume, based of your responses, that you are unable to read. No one has ever received a perma-banned acct back. Dom had to remake accounts, and climb from there. Your argument doesn't follow the flow of logic. Only 1 PERSON has ever been banned from LoL, Tyler1, in all other cases, accounts are banned.

Reket DeAlkJul 26, 20162 votes

{quoted} In some cases, their suspension from competition is lifted however their accounts still remain permanently banned.

This right here is what you're not getting.

You can still play ranked. You're not banned from it. Your account is and will remain banned, just like the pro players. So yes, you're being held to the same standards.

PS. Ranked != Competitive. Ranked is the mode available to all of us. Competitive is the pro scene. AKA LCS, Worlds, etc etc

PRKcMakC6aJul 26, 20162 votes

Ummm, how can I still play ranked without an account? And again, lifting a suspension is hypocritical on ANY level. "Competitive" or otherwise. If they say the suspension will never be lifted for anyone under any circumstance, they don't hold themselves to that standard and make exceptions?

TheLastShadow45Jul 27, 20161 votes

What they are saying is the suspension on Accounts wont be lifted. When it comes to pro players, if they do something that gets an account banned, not only do they have that banned account but they are temporarily removed from pro play. The lifted suspension you brought up was from pro play. The account that got banned can't be recovered at all.

Reket DeAlkJul 27, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Ummm, how can I still play ranked without an account? And again, lifting a suspension is hypocritical on ANY level. "Competitive" or otherwise. If they say the suspension will never be lifted for anyone under any circumstance, they don't hold themselves to that standard and make exceptions?

Make a new account. Same as the pros. And they never lift the ban, the suspension is different. The pros can be allowed back into the pro scene if they show good behavior. But they don't get their banned accounts back.

fuktihsgameJul 26, 20162 votes

yea i had a similar experience with support dest. and when showed evidence to riot, even after they referred me to check the player behavior boards. and still showed them the truth. they had nothing but round about answers and no "real" reason for their ban. riot is fucking up a game every season that passes. from no more solo q . to making new champs that are broken while leaving older champs in a state which leaves them not even fun to play just to pump out champs they will nerf "i mean balance" even tho the new champs are run through pbe before release. in other words.. riot is biased and unfair and there's nothing anyone can do about it..

PRKcMakC6aJul 27, 20162 votes

We the consumers actually have all of the power. It is a shame we don't organize and show that power.

TiddlywinksJun 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

We the consumers actually have all of the power. It is a shame we don't organize and show that power.

It never ceases to amaze me how people sign up to a game, click "agree" on the terms of service and then somehow manage to act insulted and vindictive when they have violated the said terms, resulting in sanctions.

Takes a lot of nerve to act like spending money on the same game other players spend money too somehow gives you the right to ruin their experience and then act like you're the victim when the chicken come home to roost.

I don't know if you're deliberately failing to understand the distinctions, more than adequately explained by others, between the penalties received by IWD and yourself and how some of those penalties were lifted, namely his ban on LCS.

All the hot air about checking with a lawyer is just that. You have agreed to a contract, breached that contract and appropriate action has been taken. If you spend triple or quadruple digits on a game and then manage to get yourself banned, that's all on you. The terms of service are, in fact, legally binding.

EskTheOgreSep 18, 20171 votes

how do you figure? its contractual theft, they arnt in the wrong its just a shitty thing to do to the player base. You are forced to do it,(though many people don't bother reading the terms) if you enjoy something and thiers no way around it ,it's your fault. That being said it's still essentially thievery, they are taking your money and not giving you something in return. I know they found a work around but other then it being a smart business strategy its horrid. Isnt free speech a major part of the world? its censoring and automated so if someone reports for no reason you can still be banned. I have compliments pop up in my mute/ban/chat warnings almost every time with maybe two totally appropriate responses and i still got perma banned and they kept my 600$. It sucks and i disagree with it but they are right. That being said if the player base boycotted or something they would lose a ton of money and might think about fixing some of their major issues.

Laqutis BotJul 27, 20162 votes

Riot is saying that their account is banned, but they are free to make new ones ,although they don't want to actively encourage this so they don't outright say it, so they are saying they are still 'free to make new accounts' is what they mean by still continue in competitive play.

I imagine they do actually permaban someone from competitive play, if they are behaving badly or cheating in competitive events, which would be totally separate from account banning.

I'm not going to deny they probably give pro players a little more leeway, but if they're making a negative experience for a large number of players / large number of reports they will still eventually get banned.

Awkward CouchJul 28, 20162 votes

Well I want to clarify a couple of things here. IWD had all his accounts banned and he was banned from the LCS for 1 year. Being banned from the LCS does not mean that you are banned from the game. To my knowledge, there are only two players who are banned from ever playing the game, XJ9 and Tyler1.

Not only that, but there should in fact be a warning system describing how/WHEN/why a permanent ban will be implemented if the behavior continues. Not just, "further infractions..."

This one is sort of your fault. The punishment system goes as follows:

10 game chat restriction *25 game chat restriction
14 day ban
Permaban

After your first punishment you should have checked the FAQ here and saw what was coming. Even after you received multiple punishments, you didn't stop your behavior. If you decide to level up an account, do things like:

if you're tilted, take a break (I usually go for a walk for about 10 minutes, then again I have a dog so that helps)
say what you are going to say out loud, just don't type
if someone is being toxic, mute them immediately, or just mute everyone at the beginning of the game
listen to calm music in the background, personally, I have Hans Zimmer pandora playing
have a stress ball so you focus on that when you die instead of typing out your rage
If you really need to, type out what you are going to say, then hit esc instead of hitting enter
put your chat key to something weird like ctrl+o+` That way you have more time to think about is what I'm about to say actually helpful?

Hope this helps, best of luck to you all.

Ragnarok AlphaAug 7, 20171 votes

This one is sort of your fault. The punishment system goes as follows:

10 game chat restriction *25 game chat restriction

14 day ban

Permaban

Hope this helps, best of luck to you all.

And my best lad, is where you're wrong: A peer of mine was in a game and shortly after that game, he received a punishment of 2500 chat restricted games. [zombie-brand-clap] I still think it is a good achievement ( No I don't. ).

In fact, you can get that chat restriction multiple times. ( I'm referring to one year ago in advance. )

MmaSpawnAug 7, 20172 votes

i completely agree with you , as i am in your shoes great job on talking too riot!

OverextendingMidSep 7, 20172 votes

Strongly agree

Ok sure but whyJul 27, 20161 votes

If they know people are going to make smurfs anyways, they should just reset people's accounts so they don't lose all of their skins.

AstôlfoJul 27, 20161 votes

They deserve to lose everything though. So why should they get to keep anything?

BobrosserinoDec 2, 20161 votes

How does someone deserve to not get a full refund? How would you feel if your account gets permanently banned and riot games decides to be greedy and not fully refund you your hard earned money?

SSJTribeDec 2, 20161 votes

dat necro tho. Anyway, it's all in the terms of service you agree to every patch. You are renting the account from Riot, they own everything in it. If you were renting a house and paint the walls, but then move out, the homeowner isn't going to pay you back for painting the walls. It was never really yours to begin with.

BettnachlegerSep 13, 20171 votes

So, you mean I should be able to spend like 1000 €, and if I decide, that I doens't like the game anymore, I should be able to get my money back through ruining other peoples games until I'm banned? Nice logic

EskTheOgreSep 18, 20171 votes

no but if you still enjoy the game and are being forced to not play it is a different story. I spent 600 lost it due to a perma ban for a mute that quoted two barly insulting comments with no profanity. Its a bad automated system thats the sad truth and why ban people for speaking? isnt free speech a big thing in the world right now as well as this is marketed as a competitive game and should be treated as such, thier is a reason why no other competitive games do this. Why isnt a perma mute a thing ? it makes alot more sense considering shit talking or responding to people flaming you isnt really related to the game, you can go 22-3 and then get flamed for ksing or not ganking ect ect, ive seen it and have had it happen. No matter what you do odds are someone will get pissy unless you are in a higher ranking elo or in a group. sadly low elo solo que is full of trolls and flaming people and thier isnt much of a way to get around it. My point here being if you are challenge but like to shit talk you should be muted not banned, they worked hard to be their and spent money and you repay all that with a perma ban. it makes the game and community look bad, especially if you look through the from us. sadly teenage boys dont seem to be the most logical of people(plenty of exceptions dont').

AstôlfoJul 27, 20161 votes

I don't think you know what "permanent" means.

LintheJul 27, 20161 votes

As has been stated.. Riot bans ACCOUNTS... not players... This is why your punishment is the same as IWDOMINATE. You are free to start a new account.

Links1995May 30, 20171 votes

Did you pursue legal action? Before i talk to my lawyer about getting my money back i need to know if its even possible. It's absolute bollocks that i've spent well over $1000 on game only to be unable to access any of my content. Do you know if we have a case?

Scary DoorJun 9, 20171 votes

I don't expect all readers here to agree with me, if any. But put yourself in my shoes. Think back to times that you learned something from it, and would want to revisit it if you had the chance to. It is hard to stop inertia. And it may have been best at the time to suspend my account. But there is always a chance for redemption on the Rift, why not here? I think it is time for another serious look at how chat is viewed in game.

If, for some reason, I received a chat restriction I would use that as my wake up call, but you apparently did not. You went through multiple restrictions and a 14-day suspension and still didn't get the message? Why should Riot give you another chance when they have already given you so many? You don't deserve it, it's as simple as that.

As far as your ridiculous comparison to other players is concerned: That's how life works. One guy speeds on the freeway and another is pulled over. One person gets a promotion, while the other with equal experience doesn't. A professional player is treated with a different set of rules than a casual player, yeah it isn't fair, bu life isn't fair, get over it.

VikådinJul 22, 20171 votes

Blatant proof of riot favouritism and bias, which more frighteningly is also used by the individuals who have power within riot to met out punishments for their personal vendettas. The same reason they refuse to tell any player how long their "reform period" is, because they are bias and unfair, singling out players they personally have problems with and making the game miserable for them, or punishing them for absolutely no reason. Unfortunately the majority is uneducated and incapable in intelligent thought so they just spam upvotes to reinforce one another's wrong opinions, like a bunch of lemmings reassuring one another they are doing the right thing as they charge headlong off a cliff.

I'm waiting riot, line up all your employees and find a nice high cliff....

EskTheOgreSep 18, 20171 votes

i got an extra week for calling the person on the ticket after calling them out on thier logic flaws and they even insulted me , nothing horrible but i responded by calling the ma dumb ass and ya. I wish i screen shot it last year.

Siegfriedx1Sep 14, 20171 votes

I do feel that riot ban system is distant from the personal kind of approach I believe it would work best.

Also it follow some hidden rules that make the player not understand exactly why they are getting punished and because of exactly what frequency of behaviour.

Its like you need 50 happenings to get a chat restriction and after that ita only 3.

The player dont know that and have the feeling that he only need to reduce the rate he do the certain thing.

Also players that change from servers receive 0 information from riot about the diffdrence in behaviour accepted in the new server. A lot of stuff that here make peopls get 14 day ban in brazil is normal for example.

EskTheOgreSep 18, 20171 votes

I am not remotely toxic, i will call out a person who goes 0-5 in ranked 5 minutes in and then flames the team. Literally all i did, but apparently im an anomaly in the community. Also i understand its in the contract that they can do this but it still seems like thievery when they get to keep your money, i've been playing since season 3 and have had around 10 accounts over the years, out of all of these two have been perma banned and i've lost 600 dollars from it. Again i understand they are within their legal rights here but it still seems off. if i buy a t shirt the and am slightly rude they cant repossess it and keep my money. IT just seems off. on top of that why does the account get perma banned for being rude when you have a mute option? and wouldn't a permanent mute make more sense considering thats the only issue here?

Colgate GatorSep 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Now what I find interesting here, is that it is clear that Riot does not actually care about improving player behavior.

You see, that's the funny thing, they do as long as you don't overstep the limit. A lot of people fail to realize that a permanent ban isn't a chance for you to get a second chance, hence the name. You had a second, and a third and a whatever number of penalties your account got to fix your behavior, but you didn't care to do it until you had your toys taken away from you.

Just because you arbitrarily decided you have been reformed it doesn't mean they should bend the rules for you.