Toxic Behavior

PeelDpotato·1/19/2018, 5:13:55 AM·3 votes·722 views

Why is it okay for a player to start 0/6 in 10 minutes, but not okay for other players to address the player about the behavior? Why is asking them to stop playing in a way that got them to 0/6 in the place, or suggesting they stop playing ranked considered toxic behavior, rather than the player that generated the frustrating situation? Why is a player allowed to start 0/6, sink the game in laning phase and then hold their team hostage in the ff vote until 20 minutes? Lastly, why are these two activities defined the way they are under the current behavior moderation system. It seems like a poor way to address toxic behavior IMO. Thoughts?

21 Comments

Jo0o1/19/2018, 5:47:42 AM6 votes

People are allowed to be bad at the game, holy shit. You can't expect genius from everybody ever placed on your team.

You're entirely welcome to advise players on how to not feed so much. Do so without being an asshole.

Dawnthology1/19/2018, 5:53:17 AM3 votes

suggesting they stop playing ranked considered toxic behavior

This right here is the issue. Give them helpful advice instead of telling them to stop playing ranked. Maybe saying "practice a little more in norms" "Dont play ranked right now because you will play against gold, plat, challenger smurfs rn" etc instead of suggesting them to stop playing ranked entirely. Like a previous gentlemen/kind woman said, "You can't expect genius from everybody"

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Farix1/19/2018, 5:40:47 AM2 votes

It depends on how you actually address it. 9 times out of 10, telling people that they need to pick up their game comes in the form of "you suck, you're such trash, play better, go kys" or one of the many, many, many variations of that. You're going to come across players that are simply not at your skill level. Matchmaking is far from perfect. So when you come across people that are used to essentially getting abused by more veteran players, they're bound to assume you're being malicious. If you happen to be one of those people that actually says those things... well, you bring it upon yourself. If not... there's not much to do. You get bad teammates, finish the game, move on. Telling a person they suck isn't going to make them get better. Now for you personally: Telling a person to go and stop playing ranked? This equates to telling them to stop playing the game mode that will actually pit them against similarly skilled players so they can actually learn. How is that not toxic?

DBS Ronovon1/19/2018, 5:46:44 AM2 votes

You can't mean things, because Riot tried to protect people from bad words, slurs and hurt feelings, instead of making the game better. The game will suck a lot of the time, and all you can do is shut your trap about it, and after the match, tell them what is on your mind.

All you can do is encourage people to do certain things, but chances are, they will tilt, feed, buy dumb items, not group or prioritize the damage in team fights, etc...

Just carry your own weight and you might win enough and advance.

Abyss Gear Syxx1/19/2018, 6:40:38 AM2 votes

Most toxic behavior comes in the form of people multi-queing and not poor performance. Just because someone performs bad doesn't make them toxic. So if that's legitimately your best reason for being upset at them then yeah, shut up. I've personally been in a lot of cases where my performance was lacking because when I communicated my needs and my plans to the team they'd hang back in a perfectly viable situation, waste my time and/or only want to fight if they can cash in [as in taking the last hit, not as in getting an assist] . In cases where I am doing fine, the enemy team will also work together and coordinate and communicate their needs to one another and I will have to fight alone because my team refuses to fight with me. Most people will get upset about someone feeding but they will not actually see how/why the person is feeding. Intentional feeding is bad yes, but fighting and being killed many times because the enemy is working together but your team isn't is not toxicity, it's how the game works.

Next issue is about these sort of multi-que issues. As a solo player you have no control over what group you get put in. Whereas a group of 3-4 snag a person who would probably not want to be grouped up with them because it's so very common for them to treat the people they don't know like shit or strangers despite being on the same team. These pre-made groups are causing the issues because it's really hard for a solo player to do anything about them whether they are working together and in a positive way or are detrimental and trolling in a negative way. I've had matches where the adc is lux with 30 farm and the lane is 0/6 after 10 minutes of gameplay. They'll be like "This is the jungler's fault..."

Riot made sure this game was team based. It's EXTREMELY HARD for 1 person to determine the future of 9 others who are against them. if 3 or 4 of them prefer making your life hard and they are your allies, that's the reason for the loss, simple as that. It's not anything to do with player skill, the game is a roulette of luck rigged before you even play it. Telling someone to play perfectly goes against human nature, we aren't perfect. Telling someone to not be upset is in the same category, but if you are angry over someone underperforming and you could've done something, chances are they weren't underperforming you were just neglecting them.

SomeNoobTroll1/19/2018, 7:46:14 AM1 votes

"Why is it okay for a player to start 0/6 in 10 minutes, but not okay for other players to address the player about the behavior?" Feeding is definitely not okay, but if it's feeding because of poor play rather than a more intentional variety then there's really no reason to go so far as you do later and call it "toxic". Addressing the behavior is okay depending on when and how it is done. Specifically, I consider it feeding after about the 2nd or 3rd death without picking up a kill or assist in the process, dependent mostly on the timing of things. As an example, 2 kills can be feeding if you die to a level 2 or 3 all in, return to lane, make a stupid trade due to tilt and die a second time right away. At this point you have fed your enemy laner and need to change your play immediately to avoid continuing to feed. This is when you need to be talking to this person (calmly) and strategizing with them to prevent further feeding and possibly even bring them back into the game with good ganking. If you just say something basic and unhelpful like "stop feeding and farm under tower" you will do nothing but tilt them.

"Why is asking them to stop playing in a way that got them to 0/6 in the place, or suggesting they stop playing ranked considered toxic behavior, rather than the player that generated the frustrating situation?"

Asking them to stop without providing reasonable and effective solutions to the problem in the process is completely meaningless, and typically comes across as douchey, thus why it is considered toxic. Based on your clarifications of what "stop playing ranked means": First, telling someone to "stop playing ranked" or just "stop playing" does nothing for the current game, other than probably tilt them even more because now you're telling them they're tilted and it just becomes this vicious downward spiral of tilt. Second, hoooooooly crap that phrase is super easy to misinterpret. If you only say "you're tilted, stop playing ranked" it definitely sounds like you're effectively using the old "you suck, uninstall noob" line. Definitely work on your phrasing with that, and definitely save it for when the game is over.

"Why is a player allowed to start 0/6, sink the game in laning phase and then hold their team hostage in the ff vote until 20 minutes?"

Normally I'd talk about how throws can happen so it's not good to throw in the towel too early and blah blah blah, but given the specific example and the "holding their team hostage" bit I think you may actually have a bit of a point here. There's literally no good reason to refuse to surrender if your team is getting hardstomped, or even if the entire team has given up and you are not the person with the best ability to carry the game back from the brink.

"Lastly, why are these two activities defined the way they are under the current behavior moderation system. It seems like a poor way to address toxic behavior IMO. Thoughts?"

Actually holding people in a game far beyond when it should end should definitely be considered griefing and be met with harsh punishments. I don't quite think the 5 minutes between unanimous and majority surrender count as that though, even if they are painful and unreasonable.

As for feeding from poor play, well, if you consider that behavior toxic then you really need to reevaluate your definition of the word, and also your mentality when playing ranked. Poor play is not toxic, you tilting because of other people's poor play and ranting that they need to be punished by riot is super toxic. Why? Because people have bad games, and it is stupidly unreasonable to expect that they always avoid their bad games whenever they're teamed with you. Sure, there's a level of skill you expect to see, but you shouldn't go tilting the earth into a new orbit just because you don't see people playing to your expectations every game. If other people's poor play is actually tilting you and ruining your enjoyment of the game, I highly recommend stepping back for a bit and looking up some guides on managing tilt and dealing with bad teammates so that you can start enjoying ranked again, because the bad players aren't going away anytime soon.

Edit: I removed a bit about telling people not to play ranked and have replaced it with a better response to the situation based on the comments in the thread. Also re-added some parts.