Here's why removing said "toxic" players turned the game into what it is.

Nhifu·Jun 30, 2018·6 votes·2,758 views

Player vs Player games in general Casual players are always glad to get rid of extremely good players And the extremely good players.. tend to take the game to the EXTREME Extreme meaning, they get very ticked off when someone else isn't "trying" or let them down.

Think of S1mple from CSGO, is he toxic? Yes, but does he try his absolute best? Yes.

The "I lost" mentality leads to people hurting their teammates for a "win" You will see this every game. 20 kills to 0, go straight to /all chat and blame another teammate. And when players are feeding they'll do something else to entertain themselves.. trolling. Spamming surrender is a big example, sitting in the summoner pool, trying to convince the OTHER team to report you.

Feeling good reporting players, after a defeat This kind of piggy-backs from the previous point, but is very very true. There are threads everywhere (this board and reddit) players seem to think they're "making a difference" by playing the game. Playing the game to. . get rid of other players permanently, rather than playing to enjoy the game itself.

Not trying anymore Troll picks, getting enough LP to lose, deranking on purpose

Now every game is the same cycle...

Play, win, rage, report, repeat. Play, lose, rage, report, quit the game.

54 Comments

JamareeJun 30, 201811 votes

Casual players don't report people who do well, casual players report people who make the experience shit, if you go 20/0/X but don't flame, no one is going to report you, that doesn't happen, that never happens, that never will happen, people aren't that petty.

As for the good players, yes, I get, losing because of a weak link isn't fun, doesn't change the fact that flaming is going to do anything.

Some people just have bad temperaments and think that anyone who plays poorly is actively trying to sabotage them, which isn't true in the slightest. Most people aren't trying to feed and if people actually calm down and realize that yes, everyone feeds, including them, people would flame less.

BestPudgeNAJun 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Casual players don't report people who do well, casual players report people who make the experience shit, if you go 20/0/X but don't flame, no one is going to report you, that doesn't happen, that never happens, that never will happen, people aren't that petty.

"casual" players will report me for split pushing on Udyr with a split pushing build.

There is plenty of examples of high elo players "reporting" players like Tarzaned for shot calling because shot calling is "bossy"

JamareeJun 30, 20185 votes

{quoted}

"casual" players will report me for split pushing on Udyr with a split pushing build.

No, they don't.

There is plenty of examples of high elo players "reporting" players like Tarzaned for shot calling because shot calling is "bossy"

No, they report him for being toxic.

BestPudgeNAJun 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, they don't.

No, "casual" players tell me they're reporting me all the time for "not grouping"

JamareeJun 30, 20185 votes

{quoted}

No, "casual" players tell me they're reporting me all the time for "not grouping"

You aren't going to be punished.

Imperial PandaaJun 30, 20186 votes

I find it impressive he can tell that it is a "casual" player and not a "competitive" player who simply disagrees with the strategy.

BestPudgeNAJun 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wzwgmFGr,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-30T20:50:28.136+0000)

I find it impressive he can tell that it is a "casual" player and not a "competitive" player who simply disagrees with the strategy.

"Casual" note the scare quotes. It's not my terminology but that of the player that i'm responding too. He said "Casual players don't report people who do well, casual players report people who make the experience shit, if you go 20/0/X but don't flame,"

I'm just using "casual" to describe the person that will go "reporting Udyr for not helping," I'm just point out experiences of how he defined "Casual" players doing quite the opposite of what he said. "Casual" players will say they're reporting me when i'm 10/0 and taken 2 inhibs solo. The main thing is i'm carrying and not flaming but these players will report me anyways.

BestPudgeNAJun 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You aren't going to be punished.

I've been chat restricted for telling people they're bad and don't understand macro play when they complain about me split pushing.

Also, are you familiar with Adelaide Skyhart's story?

ZackTheWaffleManJun 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I've been chat restricted for telling people they're bad and don't understand macro play when they complain about me split pushing.

Logs or it didn't happen.

Also, are you familiar with Adelaide Skyhart's story?

Yes.

BestPudgeNAJun 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Logs or it didn't happen.

Yes.

I'm not here to argue about or post logs for something that happened months ago

Then you know people get punished for playing off-meta stuff even when trying and not flaming so long as a bunch of people report them

TrulyBlandJun 30, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I'm not here to argue about or post logs for something that happened months ago

Then you know people get punished for playing off-meta stuff even when trying and not flaming so long as a bunch of people report them

People would only know that if they use that story to support their narrative without looking at the actual facts.

The whole punishment is the result of the fact that this player was NOT punished despite a huge amount of reports, leading to a manual investigation. A manual investigation that resulted in a punishment that was perfectly in line with their policy at the time. A policy that had nothing to do with the several orders of magnitude larger amount of players who regularly play off-meta strategies without any punishment whatsoever, but has everything to do with the way some very few players failure and refusal to communicate those strategies was detrimental to the team.

Here's a little fun fact for you: Adelaide Skyhart actually has shown that he understood why he was banned and decided to take steps to avoid further punishment. Frankly, misrepresenting the story in this way is just as disrespectful to him as it is to Riot.

BestPudgeNAJul 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

People would only know that if they use that story to support their narrative without looking at the actual facts.

The whole punishment is the result of the fact that this player was NOT punished despite a huge amount of reports, leading to a manual investigation. A manual investigation that resulted in a punishment that was perfectly in line with their policy at the time.

First off, his the ban that made that story popular WAS NOT INLINE WITH RIOT'S policy at the time or now.

Secondly, it wasn't the first time he was punished. He had been suspended for doing the same thing before.

TrulyBlandJul 1, 20184 votes

{quoted}

First off, his the ban that made that story popular WAS NOT INLINE WITH RIOT'S policy at the time or now.

No, it was made popular because people believed this was about it being an off-meta pick, which would indeed have been not in line with their policy.

But it wasn't. This was explained in great detail in so many threads and even roughly outlined by me already, so I'm just going to leave it at that. It simply was not about going off-meta.

Secondly, it wasn't the first time he was punished. He had been suspended for doing the same thing before.

Never heard of that, but so what? What's the point you are making here?

JamareeJul 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I've been chat restricted for telling people they're bad and don't understand macro play when they complain about me split pushing.

Also, are you familiar with Adelaide Skyhart's story?

So you were chat restricted for being toxic?

BestPudgeNAJul 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So you were chat restricted for being toxic?

That's an absurd definition of toxic. But if you wanna call it that sure. But the point was people told me they were gonna "report me" beforehand, which you said doesn't happen.

JamareeJul 1, 20183 votes

You were flaming your allies and admitted you did? You can tell them what you are doing without calling them bad?

BestPudgeNAJul 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You were flaming your allies and admitted you did? You can tell them what you are doing without calling them bad?

I don't consider calling someone bad "flaming" them sorry.

If i'm split pushing and i win the 1 v 1 and my team loses the 4 v 4. Then someone spam pings ??? marks over my head and goes. If only Udyr was there for the time fight we would've won that fight. I think it's a perfectly health and adult response to go you're bad i won the 1 v 1 you lost the 4 v 4.

What's not a healthy response though is to go "OMG someone called me bad when i played bad better go tell mommy"

JamareeJul 1, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I don't consider calling someone bad "flaming" them sorry.

If i'm split pushing and i win the 1 v 1 and my team loses the 4 v 4. Then someone spam pings ??? marks over my head and goes. If only Udyr was there for the time fight we would've won that fight. I think it's a perfectly health and adult response to go you're bad i won the 1 v 1 you lost the 4 v 4.

What's not a healthy response though is to go "OMG someone called me bad when i played bad better go tell mommy"

Not really, ignore them and play the game?

BestPudgeNAJul 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Not really, ignore them and play the game?

I can't ignore them once i've already read what they typed.

I think what you mean is don't responded and bottle up my feelings on the subject. I think this is very unhealthy to do and many psychologist would agree

Silent GravityJul 2, 20181 votes

If you need to talk to someone about your feelings, call up your mother after the match and tell her about how it made you feel.

Seriously. This is solid advice, and not an insult.

It's really, really good for you.

If something is important enough to feel bad about, it's important enough to share with those who love you. Your mother (or whoever you choose to share with) can also help you learn how to better interact with your emotions. You will be more connected, more authentically vulnerable, and improve your relationship if you take this advice and are open about the things that are important to you.

IcyPepperJun 30, 20182 votes

doesn't change the fact that flaming is going to do anything.

What? I'll have you know that every time I go 0/3 as a squishy support because the enemy midlaner is able to beat me in the vision game and massively outplay me both in the micro and macro level, all it takes for me to become a pro player who can 100-0 even fed tanks is for someone to insult me, my mother, and my relationship with my father.

[sg-lulu]

Umbral RegentJun 30, 20187 votes

Casual players are always glad to get rid of extremely good players

Okay, first of all, this argument is trying to make some poorly-thought correlation between casual players and sucking and hardcore players and being extremely good at the game.

You can be casual and still be extremely good at the game, just as you can be a hardcore player and still suck. To try and say "you're either casual or you're extremely good at the game" is asinine.

Second: Hardly anyone is genuinely that petty. As Jamaree said, casual players are glad to get rid of players who make the game less fun. Skill does not ever factor into someone's decision of "do I wanna report this guy...?"

And the extremely good players.. tend to take the game to the EXTREME Extreme meaning, they get very ticked off when someone else isn't "trying" or let them down.

And these statements would have been a similar faux pas if you hadn't said "tend to". Even still, I doubt players of high skill are so extreme about being good that they expect all their teammates to be godlike. If they're so good at the game, then they should know full-well what they can do to win the game, and not be even remotely drawn to being pissed off at their teammates.

Think of S1mple from CSGO, is he toxic? Yes, but does he try his absolute best? Yes.

Dunno who S1mple is, doesn't matter. He's just one person. Not a good example.

You will see this every game. 20 kills to 0, go straight to /all chat and blame another teammate.

I seldom see teammates devolve into blaming each other, and when they do, it's often one toxic player trying to get on someone's case for losing lane.

And when players are feeding they'll do something else to entertain themselves.. trolling.

Again; just because you may seem to see it a lot, doesn't mean everyone else sees it. I for one am more likely to encounter a real life unicorn than run into trolls. When players are doing poorly, they don't just randomly decide "y'know what, I'm gonna troll" - they keep playing. They may still make similar mistakes, but very rarely do they troll.

Spamming surrender is a big example, sitting in the summoner pool, trying to convince the OTHER team to report you.

......How is spamming surrender vote - something that can only be seen on your own team, supposed to convince the enemy team to report you?

This kind of piggy-backs from the previous point, but is very very true. There are threads everywhere (this board and reddit) players seem to think they're "making a difference" by playing the game. Playing the game to. . get rid of other players permanently, rather than playing to enjoy the game itself.

Yes, there are some people who take unnecessary pride in getting players punished. But, by and large, the majority of the community feels good about players getting reported/punished because that player genuinely made the game less fun for them. They're cleaning up the community, so they're entitled to at least some modicum of pride.

If you can prove that the majority of the community just exult from punishing players for no other reason than "haha, I got this guy punished", I would very much like to see it.

Troll picks, getting enough LP to lose, deranking on purpose

Now every game is the same cycle...

Play, win, rage, report, repeat. Play, lose, rage, report, quit the game.

Again, you're saying this as though it involves the whole of the community, when in reality, it's only a small handful of players who do this kinda shit.

BoringLittleFJun 30, 20185 votes

Casual players are always glad to get rid of extremely good players

I had a game in which I lost my lane and died a lot - but we had extremely good Lee Sin and Bard. None of them raged or said anything. Even when I hated myself. That's why I wanted to ensure they get this victory: I distracted the enemy team while our team took baron. I stunned enemy players who tried to kill my teammates. It was no longer about doing damage but taking damage instead of the players who could make a change. And it worked. We won in the end.

Had it been a stream of insults, I would have just stopped caring and trying. Being an asshole to somebody doesn't inspire them or turn them into Faker. Shocking, I know!

I AM VBADJun 30, 20183 votes

when a rager knows he will get banned if he rages at his team he will find another way to show his displeasure. usually trolling.

then trolling leads to getting other players banned and with the punishment feedback messages being so much fun, we have an overall great system for creating/encouraging trolls.

CharDeeMcDennizJun 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=I AM VBAD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wzwgmFGr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-30T10:45:32.936+0000)

when a rager knows he will get banned if he rages at his team he will find another way to show his displeasure. usually trolling.

then trolling leads to getting other players banned and with the punishment feedback messages being so much fun, we have an overall great system for creating/encouraging trolls.

would love to hear your solution

EnteiJun 30, 20181 votes

All riot has to do is ban the trollers, and permanently mute the toxic players. THAT'S ALL.

ModPrandineJun 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

All riot has to do is ban the trollers, and permanently mute the toxic players. THAT'S ALL.

They tried permamutes and it didn't work, hence why they don't do those anymore. From Riot Tantram:

It really breaks down into two categories.

1.) Helping players reform 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost.

We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely.

We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it.

We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling.

The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS.

So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat?

If someone isn't gonna behave properly despite being given multiple chances to do so then why shouldn't they be removed from the game?

Also, trolls and inters do get banned but because they're getting smarter about how they avoid detection (and because Riot wants to try to avoid punishing innocent players as much as possible) it's harder to catch them in the act compared to simple chat-related offenses. Gameplay related offenses when proven to be on purpose are assigned a 2-week ban as the first punishment. In case you don’t believe me on this point here are a couple examples of gameplay trolls being banned. Yes it’s just a few examples, but it proves that they do get punished.

I AM VBADJul 1, 20182 votes

that quote from riot tantrum about why they dont do permanent chat restrictions is exactly what is happening now. can you see that?

"We also saw that players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gamplay altering means of harassing their team. it caused an increase in feeding and trolling'.

this is exactly what is happening now. players understand that rage typing is going to cause them to get punished or banned. so instead they feed or troll.

essentially issuing permanent bans for chat does the exact same thing as issuing permanent chat restrictions. players know they are not allowed to type what they want in chat and so they default to alternate much worse means of harassing their team.

BestPudgeNAJul 1, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=I AM VBAD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wzwgmFGr,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-01T00:54:39.179+0000)

essentially issuing permanent bans for chat does the exact same thing as issuing permanent chat restrictions. players know they are not allowed to type what they want in chat and so they default to alternate much worse means of harassing their team.

Yup this. You don't allow people a healthy outlet for their rage(saying you suck) they will often seek unhealthy ones.

Umbral RegentJul 1, 20184 votes

Flaming isn't a healthy outlet for rage, though. If people need a healthy outlet for their rage, they'd get a stressball, a fidget spinner, or something like that - they'd yell aloud, punch a pillow or something else soft - but typing? That helps nothing.

BestPudgeNAJul 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wzwgmFGr,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-01T22:06:09.187+0000)

Flaming isn't a healthy outlet for rage, though. If people need a healthy outlet for their rage, they'd get a stressball, a fidget spinner, or something like that - they'd yell aloud, punch a pillow or something else soft - but typing? That helps nothing.

Disagree expressing your feelings verbal or through typing and then moving on is both mature and healthy.

AneirinJul 1, 20184 votes

Flaming people is not mature. If you can't play a video game without abusing people in it then you shouldn't be playing. Other people should not have to be outlets for your rage.

BestPudgeNAJul 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Flaming people is not mature. If you can't play a video game without abusing people in it then you shouldn't be playing. Other people should not have to be outlets for your rage.

It's an extremely healthy thing to do. It's not abuse. Other people should grow up if they can't handle people being upset with them.

AneirinJul 1, 20183 votes

People should grow up if they can't play a video game without being able to flame their team. As Umbral said there's plenty of other ways to release anger, so it's no excuse.

BestPudgeNAJul 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

People should grow up if they can't play a video game without being able to flame their team. As Umbral said there's plenty of other ways to release anger, so it's no excuse.

There is nothing childish about wanted to be able to express an negative opinion, it's extremely childish to think people shouldn't be able to express negative opinions of you. I'm not asking for it to be called an "excuse" there isn't anything wrong about it and no "excuse" is needed.

TrulyBlandJul 2, 20184 votes

{quoted}

It's an extremely healthy thing to do. It's not abuse. Other people should grow up if they can't handle people being upset with them.

It can be healthy-ish for the individual, but it's not healthy for the other person unless that person, too, has a healthy outlet for their emotions. And now consider what happens when that person, too, considers the (for them) healthy approach of shouting at the person with whom they're upset.

Person A is upset with person B and starts berating person B. Person B is upset with person A for berating them, and starts berating person A. Person A is now even more upset with person B and starts berating person B.

And just like that you're in an infinite loop of people yelling at each other. Do you really consider this healthy for any of the participants?

It's a bit like the dollar auction thought experiment which I would encourage you to look up. When multiple people are involved a sequence of rational (in this case healthy) individual decisions can generate irrational (in this case unhealthy) behaviour.

BestPudgeNAJul 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It can be healthy-ish for the individual, but it's not healthy for the other person unless that person, too, has a healthy outlet for their emotions. And now consider what happens when that person, too, considers the (for them) healthy approach of shouting at the person with whom they're upset.

Shouting and typing aren't the same thing

Person A is upset with person B and starts berating person B. Person B is upset with person A for berating them, and starts berating person A. Person A is now even more upset with person B and starts berating person B.

Upset. Why are you getting upset over the opinion of someone in a video game. Just cause i call someone bad because they flamed me first or played bad doesn't mean i have to be upset. It's just a video game bro. You can have a negative opinion of someone else play without getting upset. In fact that you can't disagree or have a negative opinion of someone without getting upset sounds like more of a you problem then a me problem.

And just like that you're in an infinite loop of people yelling at each other. Do you really consider this healthy for any of the participants?

Who says you need to yell at each other nonstop for disagreeing with a play or flaming. Sorry but this just doesn't follow my premise.

TrulyBlandJul 2, 20184 votes

Upset.

You were the one to use that word to describe the situation.

Why are you getting upset over the opinion of someone in a video game.

I'd address this… but it's easier to just quote half of your next sentence to throw the same question right back at you.

Just cause i call someone bad because they flamed me first […]

As for your last question:

Who says you need to yell at each other nonstop for disagreeing with a play or flaming.

You did. You insisted that this kind of venting is an "extremely healthy thing to do". I was not aware that conditions apply to that statement.

BestPudgeNAJul 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You were the one to use that word to describe the situation.

Poor choice of words by me, cause it's not really what i meant

I'd address this… but it's easier to just quote half of your next sentence to throw the same question right back at you.

In no way does this answer my question

As for your last question:

You did. You insisted that this kind of venting is an "extremely healthy thing to do". I was not aware that conditions apply to that statement.

No, this is would be a strawman argument. **Nonstop ** keyword is not something i said or implied.

TrulyBlandJul 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

In no way does this answer my question

It doesn't, because I refuse to give an answer that is tricky to formulate exactly when you yourself already know. In the quoted half-sentence you very explicitly used being flamed as a reason to retaliate against that person. Quit playing dumb. You know perfectly well that people can't help but feel attacked by peoples' negative opinion.

No, this is would be a strawman argument. **Nonstop ** keyword is not something i said or implied.

That's the point I was making about the dollar auction.

Quick summary if you haven't read into it: You auction off a dollar between two people. Regardless of who wins, both have to pay their bid. The end result is a ridiculous bidding war in which both parties continue effectively making each other lose more money. The actually weird thing is that at every single interval the decision to outbid the opponent makes sense.

Could you stop bidding to end the cycle? Sure. But why should you have to be the one to stop? There's no real incentive for you to be the person to stop bidding.

This is the same situation: At every single interval it is absolutely healthy to vent your anger by typing to the person causing the anger. But when your way of venting upsets the other person and that person then reacts in the same way you are stuck in a positive feedback loop (possibly infinite) where both parties vent their anger at each other.

Could you stop flaming to end this cycle? Sure... but why should you be the one that has to stop? There's no real incentive for you to be the one to stop fighting.

This is how those flame wars happen that one sees all too often. You may not have said or implied that people should fight nonstop, but it is a logical consequence when looking at the situation through the simplistic mindset of "venting is healthy". Because if venting is healthy… why should you stop?

BestPudgeNAJul 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't, because I refuse to give an answer that is tricky to formulate exactly when you yourself already know. In the quoted half-sentence you very explicitly used being flamed as a reason to retaliate against that person. Quit playing dumb. You know perfectly well that people can't help but feel attacked by peoples' negative opinion.

I'm not playing dumb man. I don't feel attacked by people when they have negative opinions of my video game skills.

Could you stop flaming to end this cycle? Sure... but why should you be the one that has to stop?

Disagree. Endlessly "flaming" is not productive simply telling your teammate he is bad often can be. See the problem with your shitty "dollar auction" logic is you can understand from the start where it's going and make the actual logical decisions which isn't to play.

That's just not the correct when it comes to LoL and flaming. Flaming can be productive. I was flamed a lot when i started playing the game and often for good reason, particular poor map awareness when i started out. I didn't feel attacked personally or i didn't go crying to riot to get these players to stop, instead i decided to improve my map awareness. Getting flamed was motivation for me to improve a part of my game that was clearly lacking.

but it is a logical consequence when looking at the situation through the simplistic mindset of "venting is healthy". Because if venting is healthy… why should you stop?

Just because venting is healthy doesn't mean endlessly arguing or getting into long flame wars is. Eating Broccoli can be a healthy part of a meal, that doesn't mean eating 50 pounds of Broccoli a day is healthy. This is simply bad logic, it's a fallacious use of slippery slope and a strawman

TrulyBlandJul 1, 20186 votes

To some extent you are definitely right, but consider the amount of permabanned players complaining about the lack of permanent chat restrictions. Clearly not all players switch to those other methods of pissing people off.

The key here is who usually ends up with permabanned accounts: People with little to no self control; either because they can't or because they do not want to exert it.

I remember more than one case where somebody first posted a rant on being 14-day banned, proclaiming that they are going to just /muteall and feed silently from now on until Riot fixes their system... only to post a rant on their permaban for flaming two weeks later.

Edit: Also there's still the elephant in the room. If permanent chat restrictions don't work and permanent bans only work to a debatable extent… what alternative do you propose?

I AM VBADJul 1, 20181 votes

yes not all permabanned people switch to those other methods but some do.

riot already apparently measured and tested this. but then for some reason they went and put in a different system that accomplishes the exact same thing.

being under constant threat of permanent ban is exactly the same thing as being permanently chat restricted. the only difference is the players (who have any self-control) are permanently chat restricting themselves to avoid getting banned. but since they are still chat restricted in all but name, the same side effects apply - "an increase in feeding and trolling".

the alternative is to stop punishing people for raging in chat. outside of hate speech let there be free speech. it is laughably simple to mute someone who is annoying you.

creating more trolls is not a good solution as riot already knows. any feeder/troll is 10x worse than the worst rager. sometimes the solution is worse than the original problem.

TrulyBlandJul 2, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=I AM VBAD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wzwgmFGr,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-07-01T06:56:17.486+0000)

riot already apparently measured and tested this.

No they didn't. They tested it on permanently chat restricted players.

the only difference is the players (who have any self-control) are permanently chat restricting themselves to avoid getting banned.

Which is precisely my point: There are a lot of people who do not have the required self control for that. It's also plausible that the effect in permanently chat restricted players stems from the fact that their silence is externally enforced, meaning the effect might diminish when people have to silence themselves.

I guess that's part of the problem: We don't really have any access to the statistics that Riot does have access to. And at the end of the day, unless you consider feeders literally infinitely worse than ragers it really completely depends on that statistics. That said, I'll be honest, the current system probably doesn't remove 10 of the worst ragers for every feeder it creates, so from your point of view, I can understand why you'd oppose permabans.

That said, I still think it's a bit unsatisfying to go with the alternative of "stop giving a shit" when encountering something that one considers a problem. And Riot clearly does consider toxicity to be a problem, so I would be pretty surprised if they turned their way on permabans; at least not without a proper alternative.

I AM VBADJul 2, 20181 votes

I don't agree that "a lot" of people don't have the ability to stop rage typing. But as you say we don't have any statistics on it.

I think that some people adjust more slowly than others and maybe some people don't care but eventually more and more people figure out what they can and can not type in this game. and some % of those people turn to trolling instead creating more and more trolls.

not a good solution imo

I AM VBADJun 30, 20182 votes

instead of banning toxic/rage players add a mute button

ModPrandineJun 30, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=I AM VBAD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wzwgmFGr,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-06-30T12:08:23.332+0000)

instead of banning toxic/rage players add a mute button

The mute button is not a "get out of jail free" card for poor behavior. If you can't interact with others without forcing them to constantly mute you then you've done something wrong.

I AM VBADJun 30, 20181 votes

its really not very hard to mute someone. takes exactly 1 mouse click.

personally i prefer to have games where i do 1 mouseclick to silence some angry kid over games filled with trolls. but i guess you are different.

ModPrandineJul 1, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=I AM VBAD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wzwgmFGr,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-30T22:49:33.373+0000)

its really not very hard to mute someone. takes exactly 1 mouse click.

personally i prefer to have games where i do 1 mouseclick to silence some angry kid over games filled with trolls. but i guess you are different.

It's also not that hard to not press Send after typing out insults or to just yell and rage at the screen instead of in chat. Yes people should use the mute button when need be but the fact remains that the person acting up shouldn't be forcing others into that decision in the first place. From the Tribunal FAQ:

Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter? Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player.

SolicitudeJun 30, 20183 votes

So you are saying riot shouldnt ban toxic players because banning them makes the game more toxic? That doesnt make any sense...

Casual players are always glad to get rid of extremely good players

If that was true, then most of the player base would have been banned by now. I, personally, prefer to play against better players than me, its an opportunity to become better.

Also, for anyone for you who didnt play old DotA. This game had no bans or any kind of suspension. You left a game, you could immediately join an other one. You flamed? Nothing would ever happen. But guess what. This didnt make the players any less toxic. On the contrary it made them 100 times more toxic. Seriously, finishing a game with all 10 players was extremely rare. This kind of thinking is like trying to stop murdering by allowing killing with no repercussion. "We allow killing, so that people lose interest on it and stop murdering its other". Aint happening.