Boards›Player Behavior

Riot needs a new (not fully automated) ban/behavior system.

TesTaCull Prime ·5/25/2019, 5:46:04 AM·2 votes·2,946 views

It seems as if Riot does not take context into account at all when issuing bans, and I have a hard time thinking any truly rational minded person who enjoys this game doesn't have a problem with this. Should someone get banned for saying they are "stepping outside to smoke a %%%"? I mean this is completely normal language in much of the world and doesn't have a single bit of rage, homophobic intent or anything negative at all associated with it other than giving oneself lung cancer possibly???

So if someone goes in chat and types, "I'm gonna step outside after this game to smoke a %%%, I hope I don't get cancer" They are gonna get a 14 day ban because RIOT doesn't take context into account at all with regards to "%%%" or "cancer"? There's just something fundamentally wrong about this.... I mean, shouldn't they at least have an actual human review these things rather than just banning people for keywords without a lick of context, or even worse, when context is given and it isn't bad context.

It's the same as if someone's friend showed up to the game and they said "what's up %%%%%?" ....you know, the way people talk in much of the world to THEIR FRIENDS.

Now, before all the social justice warriors pop up out of the woodwork, I'm not advocating people say the "f" word or the "n" word, I understand both have hateful connotations when used in a certain context and I don't think anyone should ever use them in a context that demeans someone's race or sexual orientation. Those bans, I understand. But when someone says one of RIOTS "no no" words, and they say it using context that clearly shows no malice hate or ill will.... why does that constitute a ban? Thoughts?? Thanks.

56 Comments

rujitra5/25/2019, 6:38:33 AM13 votes

{quoted}

It seems as if Riot does not take context into account at all when issuing bans

This is correct and intentional.

and I have a hard time thinking any truly rational minded person who enjoys this game doesn't have a problem with this.

You having a hard time "thinking" it does not make you correct.

Should someone get banned for saying they are "stepping outside to smoke a %%%"?

Yes, because there's no reason to say that in game at all, and that word is not used in North American English to mean cigarette anymore.

I mean this is completely normal language in much of the world

No, it's not.

and doesn't have a single bit of rage, homophobic intent or anything negative at all associated with it other than giving oneself lung cancer possibly???

The sole meaning of the word in its modern use is a homophobic word. Just as the "n word" arose from the term "negro", which was a non-racist term to describe someone of African descent in official documents (similarly, whites were called white in official documents). However, the word became racist over time due to it only being used in that manner.

So if someone goes in chat and types, "I'm gonna step outside after this game to smoke a %%%, I hope I don't get cancer" They are gonna get a 14 day ban because RIOT doesn't take context into account at all with regards to "%%%" or "cancer"?

Likely, yes. Because again, that word is not used in North America to mean cigarette at all, and is only very infrequently used in the rest of the world. The only people who utilize that word regularly are those that do so because they know it will cause offense/discomfort to others and/or turn heads - they're trying to be "edgelords". The word "cig" is much more common as a short word for cigarette and carries no negative connotation.

There's just something fundamentally wrong about this....

You are entitled to that opinion. The majority of the world disagrees with your opinion.

I mean, shouldn't they at least have an actual human review these things rather than just banning people for keywords without a lick of context, or even worse, when context is given and it isn't bad context.

Any player can ask for human review of their or any other player's behavior, either with/without a ban, by submitting a support ticket. They will not discuss other player's behavior but will take appropriate human reviewed action - including removing punishments if deemed in error. The vast majority of the world (and League's playerbase) disagrees with your opinion that that word should be tolerated when used as shorthand for cigarette.

It's the same as if someone's friend showed up to the game and they said "what's up %%%%%?" ....you know, the way people talk in much of the world to THEIR FRIENDS.

Again, the only people that talk this way to their friends are those that grew up doing so as "edgelords" - because they knew the term was controversial and took pride in "breaking the rules". It is not Riot's problem to fix people who are knowingly and willingly attempting to be "edgelords".

Now, before all the social justice warriors pop up out of the woodwork

If you consider it being a "social justice warrior" to like, be respectful and not take an easy step (replace three letters with three other letters) that requires literally no effort on your part to avoid offense to someone else, fine. Most of the world would call the "social justice warrior" a decent person, and call you a selfish jerk.

I'm not advocating people say the "f" word or the "n" word

You are literally advocating for people to be allowed to say that in game.

I understand both have hateful connotations when used in a certain context and I don't think anyone should ever use them in a context that demeans someone's race or sexual orientation.

The word itself demeans someone's race or sexual orientation. That is the sole meaning of the word in common lexicon nowadays.

Those bans, I understand. But when someone says one of RIOTS "no no" words, and they say it using context that clearly shows no malice hate or ill will.... why does that constitute a ban? Thoughts?? Thanks.

Because, as I've explained above, there is no reason to use the word, the word can be easily replaced with other words that are just as short, and Riot is not going to cater to "edgelords" at the expense of those players who may be suffering from depression, anxiety, or feel abused when they see that word.

Please keep in mind that many people in this world are beaten while being called the "f word" or even still the "n word" - especially teenagers by their parents who fail to accept that homosexuality exists, is not a choice, and is not abnormal. People die because of their sexuality, and when they are being beaten to death (or having other hate crimes committed against them), the word is commonly uttered. You are suggesting that people who wish to play League should be forced to remember the time their dad beat them with a belt until they were bruised, just because you should have some "right" to say that word (when there's no reason to). League is a game of enjoyment, and you're saying that multiple percent of the population should not be permitted to enjoy it, just so you can use a word that there is no reason to use.

I am not sure if you truly understand the gravity of this. There are those who commit suicide because they are bullied in school or even by their own family for their sexuality (using this word, quite frequently). Those that live many times will have lifelong PTSD from such a situation - and PTSD treatment tends to be based mainly on removal of the trauma first, then treating memories. You cannot remove the trauma of that word with those people unless you remove them from society - which is not possible. It is incredibly selfish, insensitive, and rude of someone to say "my right to use an unnecessary word is more important than your right to be a member of society".

I know this may be hard to imagine for you, or other players. If you have not experienced the immense trauma an unsupportive or abusive family, friend group, school, etc. can cause to a young person who is not purely "straight", then you are very lucky, and you need to remember that. Homosexuality (or abuse that is led to from "coming out" or being "out") is one of the highest causes of teenage suicide in the world. The use of that word in League does not help that, and in fact, may contribute to suicide in vulnerable people.

And again, there's literally no fucking reason you have to use that word. So, Riot's decided to not permit that word to be used. You want to be an edgelord? Go do so in your room please, not on the internet, and not where other people may be negatively affected by you.

zPOOPz5/25/2019, 6:03:00 AM9 votes

So if someone goes in chat and types, "I'm gonna step outside after this game to smoke a %%%, I hope I don't get cancer" They are gonna get a 14 day ban because RIOT doesn't take context into account at all with regards to "%%%" or "cancer"? There's just something fundamentally wrong about this.... I mean, shouldn't they at least have an actual human review these things rather than just banning people for keywords without a lick of context, or even worse, when context is given and it isn't bad context.

So first and foremost, I don't believe this is a normal language in pretty much any part of the NA regions so the chance of someone saying it is pretty low (you have safety number 2) (also kind of curious why does your team needs to know you're going for a smoke after game...). Secondly, if it is a normal language in other part of the world, people would not find that phase strange or offensive at all and would unlikely to report you. So you have safeguard number 1: no report = no IFS = no review = no punishment. Now if somehow someone finds that offensive or reports you just because, you have safeguard number 2: support ticket. You can ask for a manual review via support ticket or live chat and you will get an actual human review that will be able to see your context and remove your punishment.

With those 2 safeguards in place, they should alleviate any problems you may have with innocent phases that are not offensive in nature but falls under ZT.

As far as other contexts for other reasons you may had been banned for flaming because someone instigated it or you defend yourself or you just want to flame trolls, etc., we've been down this road already. Back in the old Tribunal, we were given full chat logs of all teammates including game play statistics, reporting types, reason for reporting (the little comment box that you can manually type in on the report screen), and how many and which teammate reported you including how many enemy team reported you. Given all that context and extra information, the Old Tribunal would still overwhelmingly voted to punish majority of all cases.

So, why does Rito needs a new not fully automated system? You can ask for human manual review via support ticket or live chat at anytime. You've never lost that option with the inception of the IFS or old Tribunal.

Zombie Gerbil5/25/2019, 5:59:45 AM4 votes

Context isn't needed, because you're not here to express context of why you're breaking the rules. You're here to play a video game. Riot gave you the privilege of being able to communicate with other players in their game thinking that you're able to handle the game and having the responsibility of following a policy that you agreed to like any other average human being. But no, you want to be able to break these rules for your own standards. You want to be able to express any thoughts without any consequences.

Sorry, but no, the system is fine. The only thing that needs to change is your attitude or simply find a new game.

Kei1435/25/2019, 8:06:00 AM2 votes

You know, if you aren't using the text in a form of harassment/insult, chances are people won't report you.

No report = no review = no punishment

Imperial Pandaa5/26/2019, 6:43:49 PM2 votes

Dude, please stop necroing threads that have been inactive for 6+months.

Yes, Riot uses a blanket method for ZT words/phrases. Why? Because we don't need people to try and manipulate the context to okay it. "Blazing this %%%" am I talking about smoking a cig or am I playing a Fire/Gun using champ killing someone?

You claim no one who reported you was actually offended by the language, but can you actually prove it? "Buh buh they said!" Oh they said they were okay with it? Good thing people never fucking lie about something making them uncomfortable or disagreeing with something.

If you want to use the ZT shit; then get a group of 5 and stay out of all chat, or use another medium. No matter what though, quit spamming the forums by necroing 6+ month old threads.

Jhins Girlfriend5/25/2019, 6:13:01 PM1 votes

If you want to say a zero-tolerance phrase to your friend, you can easily just do that in PMs, discord, voice chat, or even skype (do people still use skype? idk). I feel like this is just an argument in bad faith. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance, if you want to say a zt phrase that badly just don't type it ingame.