Boards›Player Behavior

How player behavior penalties affect Hextech Crafting

RiotRiot Socrates··118 votes·64,222 views

Hey everyone,

Now that Hextech Crafting is live in most parts of the world, let’s take a breather and talk about how our philosophy around rewarding sportsmanship influences the overall system. Outstanding performances, teamwork, and sportsmanship are what earns you chests and keys. Let’s clarify the sportsmanship part.

We want to focus on creating rewards and incentives for consistently sportsmanlike players. That’s why previously penalized players need to demonstrate commitment to positive play over time, even after wrapping up a chat restriction or ban. It’s also why we’ve decided against sharing the exact requirements for restoring access to earned loot. Doing so would encourage good sportsmanship for a defined period, and not much longer.

To add some clarity, more severe infractions incur longer ineligibility periods. If you’re currently ineligible for earned content, this is on you. Since Hextech launched, we’ve seen a meaningful number of players earn access to the system’s rewards. Stay focused on solid comms, teamwork, and sportsmanship in your games and you’ll be earning chests, keys, and loot sooner rather than later.

This approach reflects how we’ll build reward systems going forward, awarding the majority sweet loot, and temporarily excluding the minority while they prove they can stick to the community’s standards. There’s a ton of space to explore in recognizing and rewarding sportsmanship and we’re psyched about the possibilities for the future of League.

384 Comments

Deep Terror Nami49 votes

Would you be able to answer this; is it possible to work off your ineligibility simply by playing a lot of games? As in, is there a minimum time or can a person work off his penalty in a day?

RedTao5 votes

According to previous boards they say it takes 3 months to do down a tier. I still have 8 months to go... This reward system holds no appeal to me when me getting permabanned is far more likely to happen considering Riot still isn't telling me what was wrong with what I've been saying. I have no desire to reform when sucking at a game and apoligizing for it is considered against "community standards". The chests do nothing to answer my questions I've been sending and give me no desire to change admitting I suck and apoligizing for it.

RiotRiot Tantram78 votes

I can tell you that it does not take 3 months to regain eligibility from a single chat restriction, as long as you are being sportsmanlike. You can look around the message boards and see lots of people regaining eligibility. For some it takes longer than others. It is not impossible, or even difficult. Simply play the game, have fun, display sportsmanship and you will begin earning loot shards before you know it.

Not receiving loot is not a punishment. Earning loot is a reward.

RedTao3 votes

It wasn't from single chat restriction. It was from 2 week ban. Considering there hasn't been any other comment made by riot as far as a timeframe to go by to work off penalties, I still have 8 months to go. With that in mind, the loot system still gives me no incentive to change anything when Riots behavioral specialists for the past 3 months still cant/wont tell me why my ban was justified. Yes, not recieving loot is not a punishment. But it doesn't make me want to reform when I still get the "You've been reported for negative behavior" when I dont say anything in match.

ApolloMk211 votes

Ya, I almost guarantee this is deserved. IMO Riot is way to lenient with players. I'm sure at some point you were a jerk or AFK'ing.

T to the M3 votes

That is exactly the mentality that fucks people over to begin with. "Oh you got reported, therefore you must have done something wrong to begin with and are automatically guilty." Because no one gets reported because they simply won the game, or crushed their lane opponent. That never happens.

Erdrik6 votes

Because no one gets reported because they simply won the game

Reports do not lead directly to punishment. They lead to a review of the game.

If you won and got punished it wasn't because of the win. It was because you did something else that was actually toxic in the game.

T to the M3 votes

Actually they do. You can do absolutely nothing wrong in game, get reported, and get punished for it. Because the system is automated.

Erdrik5 votes

[{quoted}](name=T to the M,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=unobngtr,comment-id=00000000000000010001000200000000,timestamp=2016-04-05T01:13:59.005+0000)

Actually they do. You can do absolutely nothing wrong in game, get reported, and get punished for it. Because the system is automated.

Not even by your statement is that true. A system being automated does not mean reports lead directly to punishment. In an automated system, the reports would still lead to a review. Its just that the review is done by the automated system.

Which means there are a set of rules that system follows, and as such a set of rules you can follow to avoid punishment.

So no, reports do not lead directly to punishment.

T to the M2 votes

Yes. It does. You can say absolutely nothing, and still be reported and punished for it. Because the whole system works on a stance that because you are reported, you must have done something wrong to be reported in the first place.

Erdrik6 votes

[{quoted}](name=T to the M,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=unobngtr,comment-id=0000000000000001000100020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-05T01:37:23.634+0000)

... Because the whole system works on a stance that because you are reported, you must have done something wrong to be reported in the first place.

Source? Please provide evidence that shows that is how the system works.

CITED evidence. Not hearsay from so and so who only thinks thats how it works, or a friend of a friend that said this or that.

My statements come from F.A.Q.s and quotes from Riot employees. Unless you have hard evidence that has higher or more intimate knowledge of the systems that Riot built you aren't going to be proven right.

RiotRiot Tantram10 votes

Actually, Erdrik is correct here.

A report flags a game for review. They do not establish guilt. The game is then reviewed for harassment, feeding, etc. This is why 'troll reporting' or 'gang reporting' do not work. False or inaccurate reports are thrown out.

You can say absolutely nothing, and still be reported and punished for it.

You cannot ever be punished for saying nothing .. unless of course it's for something gameplay related like feeding, afking or cheating. But, you can never be punished for offensive language, hate speech or verbal abuse if you said nothing.

IcyPepper71 votes

Not receiving loot is not a punishment. Earning loot is a reward.

I think a lot of people forget that one.

Skorpio31 votes

{quoted}

I think a lot of people forget that one.

A lot is an understatement

SpankMyPhatAshe6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=unobngtr,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-04T20:44:59.940+0000)

I can tell you that it does not take 3 months to regain eligibility from a single chat restriction, as long as you are being sportsmanlike. You can look around the message boards and see lots of people regaining eligibility. For some it takes longer than others. It is not impossible, or even difficult. Simply play the game, have fun, display sportsmanship and you will begin earning loot shards before you know it.

Not receiving loot is not a punishment. Earning loot is a reward.

Thats odd because it took me a little over 3 months for it to be lifted (3 months and a few hours later) and was able to gain hextech loot. Could you explain that?

RiotRiot Tantram47 votes

Could you explain that?

Hextech loot was released in March. It hasn't even been out for a month.

SpankMyPhatAshe6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=unobngtr,comment-id=00000000000000030000,timestamp=2016-04-04T21:12:56.130+0000)

Hextech loot was released in March. It hasn't even been out for a month.

Uhhh that didn't anwser the question :/ I mean I was punished over 3 months ago (totally derserved it) and the 1st month it came out I could not earn loot because I was a sh1tlord but when 3 months past in total I was then able to receive hextech loot. Where you stated it does not take 3 month to get reformed, but it did with me... I'm just abit confused about that...

59Qjz9jlON19 votes

He did answer your question, if you'd re-read it. He states as long as your conduct is actually improving and sportsmanlike, it wouldn't take 3 months.

SpankMyPhatAshe3 votes

{quoted}

He did answer your question, if you'd re-read it. He states as long as your conduct is actually improving and sportsmanlike, it wouldn't take 3 months.

The proof is it took me exactly 3 month from the date I was banned to be reformed so I was wondering why he said it didn't but it did for me. Do you see what I mean? thats why its very confusing for him to say that when it was not a true statement.

Roaranor11 votes

He said that it doesn't take 3 months from a single chat restriction, as long as you are being sportsmanlike. If it took you a full 3 months, then either you had more than one chat restriction or you were justly reported for something or another along the way.

YoRHá unit 2B4 votes

I love how 1(single) game can fuck u over with rewards for a season, keep up riot, keep up.

Erdrik36 votes

It takes more than 1 game to get punished.

I mean unless its something extreme like hate speech, ect

TheVoidScyther2 votes

{quoted}

It takes more than 1 game to get punished.

I mean unless its something extreme like hate speech, ect

sorry this isn't true :/ someone told me to "go fucking kill myself" and I have yet to see the screen showing they have been punished and that is just the tip of the iceberg for what they said sadly tribunal is busted and nit picks tbh I know why they didn't punish this person in my case and it's cause they were in gold and in rito if you perform well you can BM all you like apparently

Spaceman5pff23 votes

You not getting a message does not mean they did not get punished. It simply means your report was not the final straw.

Jari7 votes

{quoted}

You not getting a message does not mean they did not get punished. It simply means your report was not the final straw.

I do wish if your report was one of the later one's though that it would.

I never got the message and I'm worried I'm reporting things that aren't toxic enough. :(

Erdrik5 votes

If you ever feel like something you've reported is not toxic enough and might reduce your report weight, feel free to post about the specific event on these boards. We can help determine if it was punishment worthy.

(Just remember Name and Shame is against the rules so don't post any names if you do)

Jari4 votes

I won't post names. I think it's because I tend to also report the passive aggressive behavior ones (Such as "why" or ? ping spams) that the system likely doesn't read as easily, although I mostly do it when it's clear they're just trying to set the team off.

I know I've shared my concerns before in some posts about it. I even asked Riot in a ticket once, but they said they couldn't tell me as it's up to the player to tell what's toxic and what isn't.

My gf hates LoL1 votes

That's not true. I got a 2 week ban for a single game because I allegedly intentionally fed. My ban said "these are the game in question" only had one game on it and when I tried to get the ban repealed they said my chat logged in the game was toxic so they wouldn't change my ban

Lunnaris015 votes

Well intetionally feeding and insane toxicity should always result in a ban. Why would riot want to accept trolls and intentional feeder. The fact that it's only happing once in a while doesn't make it any better for those players in your game. If you got a 2 week ban if probably wasn't your first one eather and if it was literally only 1 game, you actions probably resulted in 5+ reports.

There is a huge difference between having a bad day once in a while and calling your sup noob even though he might just try a new champ or destroying the game for 9 other players + being toxic to multiple players. I am pretty sure they do distinguish between flaming that happened in game when a lot of action was involved like a "Omg jungler wtf this smite noob" and being toxic while feeding your ass because of stupid reasons like "I had a 1/6 noob teemo who flamed me as jungler in my last promo game, so now I will feed and flame all of you all game long"

63879705DEL16 votes

Then, please, tell us: how long DOES it take?

As I said in another post in this thread, I could give a crap about the hextech rewards in this. I have too many skins already, and if you feel that taking it away is an effective punishment to correct behavior, than I'm willing to put up with it for a few months, I suppose. My problem is the constant needling of the "rewards" system. I can't play a game that is going to remind me of one bad day I had a couple of weeks ago for an indefinite amount of time. In short, I'm not mad about not getting free stuff. Constantly being hounded by the system that distributes those rewards, however, caused me to uninstall the game.

I don't want to stop playing League, as it's my favorite game, and there's a lot of really cool stuff coming down the pipe in it. Unfortunately, if I can't get more than a "it'll happen at some point if you just don't act toxic", I can't really see myself putting up with every game ending by telling me "Your performance doesn't matter because you were toxic one time. LOL suck it pleb." It's really, REALLY disheartening, frustrating, and unnecessarily punitive.

I'd love to reinstall the game and use the lack of hextech as an excuse to just buy more skins with cash, but as long as the game itself is being more toxic than I ever was, I have 0 reason to do so.

Deep Terror Nami12 votes

The 3 months thing is being misquoted. This belongs to the tier punishment system (10 chat, 25 chat, 14 day ban, permaban).

Meanie402 votes

And it has been stated that 3 months without a penalty will drop your next penalty one tier in that system.

So presumably, his last penalty was a 14 day ban about a month ago. So for 2 months (if he receives another penalty in that time), it would be a permanent ban. 3 months after that (with no penalties), it would again be a 14 day ban, followed by 3 months of 25 chat restriction, then it would finally drop to a 10 (being "clean" at that point), for a total of 8 months.

He is assuming that you need to be at that "clean" point to receive Hextech material. (Not going to say whether the assumption is correct.)

Zaddok2 votes

And it has been stated that 3 months without a penalty will drop your next penalty one tier in that system.

Source? :)

Deep Terror Nami7 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/f/mNBeEEkI/d/p7scKW1K?comment=00050000000000000000

This is the 3 months to drop each tier.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Boqd81O0-upcoming-upgrades-to-chat-restrictions

These are the tiers.

What he is saying is that some people are assuming once you get back down to the initial 10 game chat restriction tier that you are considered "reformed" and will be eligible for Hextech loot. That's incorrect, but it's the reasoning for the comment is what he's saying.

kile1473 votes

You're blue again here, is this the only section your arbiter status is shown?

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

In Misc. and PB&M.

lolptwo3 votes

This is very important information. Time wouldn't make so much sense because then people could just AFK for months and never reform actually. I think games are more substantial since that means you are actually trying to reform and 2 games spaced 2 months apart should be no different than 2 games one after another.

Lothàrs Edge10 votes

Source?

It's not that I don't trust what you say, it's just that I don't trust what you say with certainty.

What about those who got penalized on a bad day? Like a chat restriction? Are you saying those people need to demonstrate commitment to positive play by being a completely different person?

It's been a couple months of no restrictions (got them before hextech even came out), but I'm not about to say "gl hf" every game or "gj" for every single thing or "omg sorry" for every single mistake just to receive rewards. I'll do what I think is fair- and that is to stop retaliating to actual trolls. But I will not go out of my way to be this disingenuous nice guy.

"This is on you" no ____ sherlock? I mean, it tells them/us that 'ineligible' message every game. It wasn't entirely on us, but yes, we were fully responsible for our own actions. But look at the scenario in which those actions occurred. Few and far between.

You have to realize that the community standards are very very low on the average game. It's harder to tolerate people than it is to win the game itself. You're saying we have to not only play nice, but act nice by communicating with encouragement and whatnot? Why? That isn't reformation, that's "pseudo change".

Define sportsmanlike. Because for me, it's hard enough to simply keep my fingers off the keyboard when I see someone go off the rails on me or my friends or even random teammates. Me keeping quiet and playing the game as normal, is me being sportsmanlike. I compare it to as much of an IRL scenario as I can. IRL- I would've walked away from the game long ago, and everyone else too. But we can't do that. What I wouldn't do, is talk nice to the person and encourage positive behavior, because that person isn't worth talking to.

You keep talking about displaying sportsmanship as if this miraculous set of words will change a person from the inside out. I could be that fake nice person, and fool the system into thinking I was a "reformed" player. Am I now reformed? No. I am no different than I was yesterday.

Once you have served your time, you've served your time. The need for a double whammy (and the constant you are ineligible for loot because of previous restrictions) just confuses me. Maybe not for those who are constantly toxic, but for those of us who slip-up? I don't see the point or efficiency in doing so.

Riotboourns22 votes

What you're doing is totally fine. Neutral or positive play is really all we're asking for.

"Me keeping quiet and playing the game as normal, is me being sportsmanlike." Just keep doing what you're doing, you don't need to be some paragon of good behavior to get loot. Just play games and don't create bad experiences for other people.

559878 votes

I got a chat ban 3 months ago and I'm still ineligible for loot. You'd think Lyte with his Ph.D. would understand that reminding somebody of their toxic behaviour 3 months ago after every game only makes people more toxic.

RiotRiot Tantram170 votes

In your case it's more about the 14-day ban you received recently than the chat bans months ago. As Socrates states, more severe bans take more to get your account in good standing.

Astôlfo42 votes

I like how people conveniently forget their mess-ups when they try to criticize stuff like this. GJ Tantram!

Kendrick Lamar71 votes

Love it when Rioters call toxic people out on their bullshit :-)

WzvVgeNXs27 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=unobngtr,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2016-04-04T21:02:00.793+0000)

In your case it's more about the 14-day ban you received recently than the chat bans months ago. As Socrates states, more severe bans take more to get your account in good standing.

Still there are people who get punished for something they did months ago. Which means his point about Lyte is pretty valid.

Spaceman5pff34 votes

And then there are people who flat out LIE to people who have resources to uncover this lie. IDK

Classic WoW soon2 votes

Riot's ban system has always had a revolving door policy.

If you've been banned before, you will be more likely to show up for review over even the most minor infractions.

RiotRiot Tantram26 votes

It's actually the opposite of that. The majority of players that receive a penalty, never receive another. That goes for every tier of punishment (most with a 10 game chat restriction never get a 25, most with a 25 game never get a 14-day, most with a 14-day never get a perma). That is why we perma-ban players if they continue their behavior after the 14-day ban.

Although that can be the perception by people who are perma banned, because they don't understand that their behavior is unacceptable.

Reaper Review9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=unobngtr,comment-id=00220000,timestamp=2016-04-04T23:03:29.404+0000)

It's actually the opposite of that. The majority of players that receive a penalty, never receive another. That goes for every tier of punishment (most with a 10 game chat restriction never get a 25, most with a 25 game never get a 14-day, most with a 14-day never get a perma). That is why we perma-ban players if they continue their behavior after the 14-day ban.

Although that can be the perception by people who are perma banned, because they don't understand that their behavior is unacceptable.

In some cases (at least in my own case, but I can't be the only one), it's not that they don't understand that it's unacceptable, but that they're trying to deal with their behavior in the wrong manner.

I thought that if I could just try to focus and keep my mind on the game, that I could tune out the negativity and could avoid going off. As it turns out, though, I was taking the wrong approach. Sweeping the problem under the rug isn't the same as actually solving it, and it took the most serious of punishments before I was actually FORCED to stop and think about where the problem actually was (in my case, the problem was in my lack of self-confidence and trying to handle everything on my own).

I'm not disagreeing with you, though. I just wanted to share my own perspective on the matter.

RiotRiot Tantram13 votes

That's actually a very good perspective to share. That's the main reason why we added reform cards. We wanted people to have the ability to actually see why they were penalized, hoping they would be able to then realize what they need to do. I'm going to link to this for my own reference.

Reaper Review3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=unobngtr,comment-id=0022000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-04T23:20:44.056+0000)

That's actually a very good perspective to share. That's the main reason why we added reform cards. We wanted people to have the ability to actually see why they were penalized, hoping they would be able to then realize what they need to do. I'm going to link to this for my own reference.

"What they need to do" is different from person to person, though, and it isn't something an automated system can tell them. Obviously I wouldn't expect it to, since it's only a program and can't discern an individual's psychology.

For some people, just steeling their resolve and avoiding saying negative things works. These are likely the people who don't progress past the chat restriction tiers. (There's also muting/not using chat, but this IS a social/teamwork game at its core, so that feels like more of a band-aid fix. Paranoia over the idea of being reported for the slightest of things likely doesn't help, but that's more to do with peoples' perceptions of the Instant Feedback system.)

For the people this doesn't work for, though, the actual solution is much less clear. It's easy to still think that "just don't be negative in chat" is the answer, since it's the easiest and most obvious way out, and it's what a reform card seems to indicate on the surface. Like I said, that's the trap I got caught in.

Thanks for reading and responding to my thoughts, by the way. I don't want to take up too much of your time, so I'll leave it at this. Any further and this'd turn into a discussion of human psychology, which isn't a field I'm certified in.

More from Player Behavior

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
Player Behavior1,525 comments
1,086
votes
Riot should add monthly status cards
Player Behavior241 comments
843
votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes

More by Riot Socrates

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
Ranked Restrictions
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous1,279 comments
291
votes
New Champ Select Update
Announcements1,140 comments
217
votes
The Future of New Champ Select
Announcements457 comments
159
votes
Ranked Rewards and Negative Behavior
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous359 comments
83
votes
Ranked Changes
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous291 comments
74
votes