Boards›Player Behavior

Why I Believe The Punishment Experience Is Flawwed

The Highest Noon·3/10/2019, 6:43:40 PM·1 votes·2,353 views

Something that I've personally had trouble dealing with is the punishment experience surrounding this game. I don't mean the punishment system itself, though it is a tad flawwed as well; I mean everything involving punishment from a player's toxicity itself to how Riot expects us as players to deal with punishment and move forwards from it. Let's start from the beginning...

When you first begin this game, you're told of a rather vague set of guidelines that generally all fall under two categories: The uniform Zero-Tolerance Rules and the more subjective "Don't Be A Jerk" clause. It's easy to figure out what you should and shouldn't say in regards to the Zero-Tolerance Rules, but "Don't Be A Jerk" can be oftentimes trespassed upon without even realizing it. Most likely, anybody punished for chat toxicity were punished because they did not know that what they were doing constitutes as "Jerk" behavior:

  • Asking for others to report someone
  • Telling someone to stop doing something harmful to the team dynamic
  • Telling someone how to play the game
  • Speaking against trolling players

Among other situations, these are the most common reasons that people will be punished. The problem is, these aren't situations that any generally new player will know are against the rules. In most times, people would believe these are wholly allowed because it's what they'd see in almost every game. Because it's so regularly, it's even assumed that they're supported actions.

Fun Fact: They're not, and you'll be punished for doing them. So don't.

A person is eventually punished. What's next? Well... "You were punished for negative comms. Hope you learn your lesson!"

...okay? Why isn't there a given...explanation as to why what they were punished for was punishable? How will anybody learn from the punishment? Not everybody bothers coming to Boards. Having to reach out to Player Support shouldn't be the expected result. There's an in-game reform card, isn't there?

Through a series of unexpected incidents or selfish decisions, oh no! That player is permanently banned! Now what do they do?

Well...just make a new account, silly. That's it. There's no series of tests to prove that a second chance at the game is deserved. There's nothing to be done to follow up on the ban. It's just... "Well, guess it's time for another account!"

WOW HOW AMAZING

And so, once again the player enters the gaming environment without a lesson learned. All that's been learned are the certain things that was said that apparently shouldn't be said, until the next time that there's a punishment for saying something else that wasn't known to be against the rules.

Let's say that player decides to come to Boards.

  • "That's what you get"
  • "You were being toxic because you said this which you weren't told was against the rules"
  • "That's why i just /mute all at the start of every match"
  • "Imagine how they felt, intentionally feeding and calling you a racial slur, only for you to respond by telling them to stop or you'll report them. Shame on you."

Okay, that's not as helpful and anyone is led to believe. Let's hit up Player Support, then.

BlitzcrankBot:

  • "01000111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01110111 01110010 01100101 01100011 01101011 01100101 01100100 00101100 00100000 01100110 01101100 01100101 01110011 01101000 01111001 00100000 01110011 01100011 01110010 01110101 01100010 00100001 00100000 01001000 01100001 00100000 01001000 01100001 00100000 01001000 01100001 00100000 01001000 01100001 00100000 01001000 01100001 00100000 01001000 01100001 00100000 01001000 01100001 00100000 01001000 01100001 00100000 01001000 01100001 00100000 01001000 01100001"

REQUEST A HUMAN PLEASE

  • "You may not think so, but you deserved it"
  • "You were being toxic because you said this which you weren't told was against the rules"
  • "If the other player is being toxic, just mute them"
  • "Imagine how the other player feels when you threaten to report them or react negatively to them. Turn the other cheek when they assault you, obviously"
  • "Sucks that you went through that but it doesn't excuse you reacting to racists and other forms of toxicity"

...Really?

Well, any individual circumstance generally matters not. They could insult your race, your sexuality, your gender, your family, your friends, your childhood heroes, your animals, put pineapples on pizza, play Teemo, but if you react you deserve the punishment. And no, there will be no consideration for your circumstances at the time. You responded, therefor you're the criminal as well.

Overall, this is in no way an innovative, beneficial nor healthy experience for anyone from start to finish.

My beliefs as to how this experience is flawwed and solutions to which:

1 There are no objective guidelines for players to follow that don't involve subjective ideas, disregarding Zero-Tolerance Rules

  • Just tell us what we should and shouldn't do. This shouldn't be so troublesome that it can't be done. Tell us to stop asking for reports. Tell us to not respond to toxicity. Boards Mods actually do this, and they don't even punish us for doing it.

2 Players aren't giving warnings that specific comms are punishable. This would drastically reduce punishments and overall toxicity

  • If you have a system that automatically punishes people for specific comms, you can include something that gives warnings for those same specific comms before the punishment is actually given.

3 Players aren't given a list of specific comms that led to punishments, just the entire list of chat, leaving the player to draw their own conclusions regarding why they were punished. This is a terrible practice by principle. Leaving players to determine why rules were broken--rules that lack concrete definition--almost never serves the purpose that rules exist for.

  • Kinda obvious that specifics should be given. Even if it's just highlights of specific moments. TELL US WHAT WE DO WRONG.

4 Hear players out. Truly consider whether or not punishments are necessary.

  • Even if you don't remove the ban (even though it's possible) at least remove the punishment tier if it's necessary or reinstate Honor Levels. Players who are responding to the stress and negativity that's commonly encountered while playing this game shouldn't be treated as harshly as players who are purely toxic.

I used the term "harsh" because I truly believe that this experience is harsh on players that don't deserve the harshness of it all. They endure stressful, troubling, or otherwise stressful situations without a single inkling that there's someone who's "on their side" regarding it, expected to find a resolution to the conflict that doesn't involve reacting to it, and if they do react to it they're told "You should've just ignored it". It's painfully harsh, and needs a genuine fix that looks at the entirety of the punishment experience.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not saying that negative behavior in response to negative behavior should be excused. I'm not saying that people should be encouraged to or even allowed to be negative towards negative behavior. I'm saying that we, as players, should be more well-informed regarding the punishment system, that the system and Support should have more sympathy regarding what players experience and how they respond, that we as players should have more consideration for what our fellow players go through, because it's a common saying that the player-experience with this game is ROUGH. It's not the worst, but man I wouldn't wish it upon anybody.

Your thoughts?

9 Comments

Relaxed Art3/10/2019, 8:39:18 PM3 votes

How is reviewing that they were toxic not helpful. They ask we answer. Just speak in league of legends as if it's normal person.

BlueThingamajig3/10/2019, 9:36:12 PM2 votes

So what I am understanding of your post is that: "A flaw of the punishment system is that it doesn't give specific feedback about what is punishable, it only gives a chat log and inconsistent resources in terms of forums and player support".

Is that the crux of it?

Because you have a fair point. A punishment should be specific and immediate. A person not knowing why they were punished is more likely to continue such behavior in the future. It is vital for a person to understand what is being punished for the punishment to be effective.

First: Currently, the IFS applies a punishment and gives the chat logs that triggered the punishment, saying "These chat logs led to your punishment". If it knows how to identify punishable chat from non-punishable chat, why can't it determine between different types of punishable chat?"

The issue isn't a matter of whether it can, the issue is knowing that errors will happen. We know the IFS is not perfect. Sometimes it doesn't ban players who deserve it. Sometimes (fortunately very rarely) it incorrectly applies a punishment to someone who does NOT deserve it. So let's add an extra layer of complexity to it. Let's tell people not just that their chat is wrong, but have the system add a tag that explains exactly how.

Where could this go wrong? Well, let's have it put the wrong tag on it. Let's have the "racist behavior" tag put on an otherwise punishable chat log that doesn't have racist behavior. Suddenly, even though the rest of the chat log shows constant harassment of others. This player now thinks they were wrongly punished because a computer system applied the wrong tag to the chat log.

Or maybe there was a chat log that did include racist speech in addition to general flaming. Then, they remove the racist text from their habits and...get punished again! Because their logs are still filled with harassment, flame, and jaywalking. So now we've established that the system must not only determine what type of punishable chat it is, but also apply multiple tags for it.

And now that we're adding multiple tags to any given chat log, there's multiple more opportunities for the system to show its flaws. There would be a flood of "my ban tag was wrong" posts, and the constant response of "you did X, even though the system didn't correctly identify it".

tl;dr/conclusion number one: It is against Riot's interest to increase the complexity of the IFS because it would make it appear far less accurate than it actually is. It already struggles with explaining low-level offenses, and more chances for feedback errors is not a positive development. I believe Riot could and should do a better job of explaining how the system works to all players, but adding complexity to the IFS would not assist to that end.

Second: Let's also look at the examples you give one at a time. Why are they punishable? Why should someone know that they are punishable?

-Asking for others to report someone By itself, solely asking for a report isn't punishable. It is when a player continuously harasses and badgers others, demanding reports, threatening bans, etc. that cause the IFS to apply a punishment. In a relatively recent game I played, there was an intentionally feeding Udyr on the enemy team. I decided I would report the player even before several enemies politely requested that we report Udyr. That's not harassment, and it's a calm and measured response to a trolling player. But in many chat logs we see here on the boards, you'll see frequent calls for reports and other forms of harassment.

-Telling someone to stop doing something harmful to the team dynamic I'm not certain how this one is distinct from the next two, if my next responses don't address this point, please let me know

-Telling someone how to play the game It is permitted to suggest builds or recommend playstyles to teammates. However, most people don't do that. What they do is saying worthless things like "stop feeding", or "why haven't you built X", or "worthless jgl". These don't help teammates, all they do are continuously harass and badger others. In a game, I requested an ally to do something by saying "Please commit to the fight instead of running away. When they are distracted by my CC, your AOE would be game-winning".

-Speaking against trolling players A troll is defined as someone who seeks to cause others to become upset through their words or actions. If you are speaking against a troll, you are proving to the troll that it is working. Don't feed the trolls.

If they AREN'T a troll, then that's even worse. Speaking against someone (read: harassing and badgering) who is doing poorly, but NOT trolling, then that person is literally flaming. Flaming is counter-productive to winning, and it also makes the flamer an asshole.

tl;dr/conclusion number two: Players should know that harassing others will increase their chances of losing, is obnoxious behavior, and will be punished by the IFS. The issue isn't any of the specific examples you list, but rather that they do not recognize that they are harassing others. They THINK they are doing one of the 4 items, but both the IFS and the boards here are to inform them of their mistake.

Third: Your strawman depictions of the boards and Riot support. You've deliberately chosen callous and harsh statements, instead of the actual advice given.

You say: "You may not think so, but you deserved it" More accurate: The punishment was correctly placed and won't be lifted

"You were being toxic because you said this which you weren't told was against the rules" Harassment of others is explicitly covered in the Terms of Use, so they WERE told it was against the rules.

"If the other player is being toxic, just mute them" If the other player is being toxic, mute them so that you are not tempted to respond in a way that breaks the rules.

"Imagine how the other player feels when you threaten to report them or react negatively to them. Turn the other cheek when they assault you, obviously" There are no circumstances in which you are allowed to break the rules, even if other players do so. Mute so you don't have to see it, report so that we know about it and can apply a punishment, and set it aside so that you aren't tilted for your next game.

"Sucks that you went through that but it doesn't excuse you reacting to racists and other forms of toxicity" Actually, this one is pretty accurate. I'm not going to revise it. Mute, report, and move on.

_tl;dr/conclusion number three: _Some people, both in game and on the boards are unhelpful. But many people, especially folks like Umbral Regent give very clear and exact information and context regarding IFS punishments. If a player cannot learn from one of Regent's posts, that's because they refuse to take responsibility for their actions, not because the system is flawed. The vast majority of players don't post on the boards. They don't spend several hours insulting everyone who dares to disagree with them. They look at their chat logs; they say "huh, I guess I was an asshole", and they strive to avoid being an asshole for a moderately long stretch of time.