LGBT+ community in League

Macabray·Jun 15, 2016·7 votes·2,824 views

As a gay woman in the League community, I haven't been immune to the homophobia present in people's attitudes and therefore in games. Riot is in a unique position to reach demographic groups that are typically completely sheltered from messages of acceptance and tolerance for LGBT+ persons. I, therefore, would ask Riot to consider making a statement firmly in support of the LGBT+ community in the wake of the recent attack on us exacted by a homophobic, straight man. We, as a community, could be better allies; and that can start with a strong, clear message of support from Riot.

As players, I think we can all hold each other accountable for our language and behavior. We have to remember that sometimes the person yelling "----ggot" in the chat, or calling people "----gger" might be a kid who hasn't learned any better yet. We can support the younger members of our community by gently calling them out on language (instead of the classic "Aaaaand... Reported") and providing alternative ways to talk trash or vent frustration.

Riot, please, in the wake of one successful and one failed hate crime against my people, stand with us. Let's make our community better than the hate we see outside.

58 Comments

OleandervineJun 15, 20165 votes

While I almost agree with all you say, unfortunately Riot's manner of business doesn't generally pull in the outside world in news or media created by them, so acknowledging this shooting would be out of character for them. They strive quite hard to remain rooted in the fantasy game they created and they don't break that immersion with reality (aside from eSports). That said, I feel like gently scolding people for using homophobic language is not good enough. I like their no-tolerance policy on it. I'm gay and I want the hammer dropped hard on these little ignorant children who think those words are funny or use them to put others down. They know better than to use those words, it's not like they were just made offensive yesterday, so I'm all about ending their accounts if they can't behave themselves. They don't understand the sheer hatred caused by those words, and I would rather not see these people in my games.

SearnoJun 15, 20163 votes

I feel like using the word gay could be given some lenience given how there's tons of little shits who use that word disregarding homosexuality, however if they're using it an a way that regards sexuality in an extremely negative/hostile way than so be it. Any form of hate crime should be punished harshly by riot is what I hope for.

OleandervineJun 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I feel like using the word gay could be given some lenience given how there's tons of little shits who use that word disregarding homosexuality, however if they're using it an a way that regards sexuality in an extremely negative/hostile way than so be it. Any form of hate crime should be punished harshly by riot is what I hope for.

Just no. That's like if people started saying "That's Black" as an insult or "That's Asian." Using gay casually as equated to a negative descriptor is unacceptable no matter how many people use it.

SearnoJun 15, 20161 votes

Fair point. Honestly league is just toxic in itself, it's just I'd rather not see everyone getting permabanned lol, and I don't personally use gay as in insult because obvious reasons (it's not right)

JorenciceJun 16, 20161 votes

Lol if people started saying "that's so white" it wouldn't even slightly bother me.

Because it means literally nothing in the long run.

SearnoJun 16, 20161 votes

I use it to describe people's dancing if that counts

JorenciceJun 16, 20161 votes

Yea. We do suck at dancing. So that's okay.

SearnoJun 15, 20164 votes

I genuinely believe that Riot doesn't owe anything to the lgbtq+ community, however I do understand where you're coming from and I would like riot to put racism and hate crime related reports autosorted to the top of their list when reviewing reports. Words such as terrorist/terrorism, nig***, f*****, or the use of the word gay and such should be autofound in people's report descriptions so they show up immediately and see who said what.

I played a game Sunday where the Ekko was so mad he told one of my teammates that he was so gay that he was surprised he didn't get shot in Orlando and I'm sad to see that I didn't get a message yet saying that the player has been punished (Riot please permaban that bitch when you see the reports). I swear at least half of us sent in reports that game, from both teams.

SeekerofSilenceJun 16, 20161 votes

You aren't entitled to a message unless your report was the one that triggered his/her punishment. Someone else might have got it instead of you.

SearnoJun 16, 20161 votes

So only one person who reported them that game would get a message?

SeekerofSilenceJun 16, 20162 votes

That's what I said, yes. :)

If you remember their username, use op.gg to check if they've got any matches lately/at all. If there's nothing or a long break you can be sure they were punished.

SearnoJun 16, 20161 votes

Thanks man I never knew, I'll check out their profile hopefully it happened!

AraMoOseJun 15, 20164 votes

I'm very much a fan of the line "When they came for the blacks, I did not stand up for them, then they came for the Jews and I did not stand up for them, then they came for the homosexuals, and I did not stand up. When they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me".

As a heterosexual white adult male, I can't really understand what discrimination feels like, but I try to do my part by educating as well as leading by example. Take heart in knowing that some of us are trying to help make the world a better place. I'm sorry for what you have to go through and I hope we can change the world one person at a time. Do not lose heart.

MacabrayJun 15, 20161 votes

Thanks so much for being aware of your privilege, and owning your role in social change in all the small ways that we make it happen. I'm really happy that there are people like you in our community who are willing to reflect the change they hope to see. :)

NazzadanJun 16, 20164 votes

{quoted}

As a gay woman in the League community

Stopped here. If people say inappropriate things, report them and move on. No one cares about your sexual orientation or gender, report someone if they are out of line.

archerno1Jun 15, 20163 votes

Can we please stop bringing things like these into League? It should never be about someones sexuality, race, religion, nationality.

SearnoJun 15, 20164 votes

Then people better stop using league as an outlet for their racism/homophobia

zlumpyJun 15, 20162 votes

This may come off as being a jerk (sorry if it is taken that way) but I don't think LGBT needs special treatment. Just like I think that no community needs special treatment. I acknowledge that you have made a choice in your life that I have absolutely no right to condemn or applaud. Overall acceptance of people is important, but we don't need to treat people like special snowflakes. equality doesn't mean picking a previously oppressed group and putting them at an advantage, lower standard of quality of work, general acceptance of everything they do, or giving them free stuff. human history is full of oppressed group that have gained equality by working hard. We are all just people and we can only do as best we can. Expecting someone else to give us an advantage is in itself a form of discrimination.

Btw the shooting was an atrocious act of violence that should be abhored purely for the fact that it occured at all. It could have been any religious group, political group, or demographic. I feel sorry for the pure waste of life that occured, and I am impressed by the solidarity of the community that was ravaged. Everyone should be mad that this happened because it happened at all; not because of who it happened to.

again sorry if I came of as a jerk it wasn't my intent. keep working hard and eventually you will have the equality you deserve. i already think of sexual orientation as a personal choice and not a reason to discriminate.

OleandervineJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This may come off as being a jerk (sorry if it is taken that way) but I don't think LGBT needs special treatment. Just like I think that no community needs special treatment. I acknowledge that you have made a choice in your life that I have absolutely no right to condemn or applaud. Overall acceptance of people is important, but we don't need to treat people like special snowflakes. equality doesn't mean picking a previously oppressed group and putting them at an advantage, lower standard of quality of work, general acceptance of everything they do, or giving them free stuff. human history is full of oppressed group that have gained equality by working hard. We are all just people and we can only do as best we can. Expecting someone else to give us an advantage is in itself a form of discrimination.

Btw the shooting was an atrocious act of violence that should be abhored purely for the fact that it occured at all. It could have been any religious group, political group, or demographic. I feel sorry for the pure waste of life that occured, and I am impressed by the solidarity of the community that was ravaged. Everyone should be mad that this happened because it happened at all; not because of who it happened to.

again sorry if I came of as a jerk it wasn't my intent. keep working hard and eventually you will have the equality you deserve. i already think of sexual orientation as a personal choice and not a reason to discriminate.

Gained equality by working hard? Are you serious? Black people were slaves in our country's early history and no amount of working hard would have stopped that. In fact, they were still tread upon once slavery ended, and it took an entire nationwide civil rights effort to finally gain them recognition. No amount of hard work will change the people in power. That's why laws exist to this day that protect minority groups, because there are still ignorant people who would fire them or persecute them based on those differences. This isn't about getting an advantage. This is about getting laws and regulations in place to protect minority groups from unjust infringements on their liberties. In most states, it is still 100% legal for a boss to fire a gay person for no other reason than them being gay. That is an abuse of power, and if laws cannot be enacted to stop it, there will never be equality. There always HAS to be a fight for equality, there can never been this passive "work hard and it'll happen" idea that you imply will work. It won't.

zlumpyJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Gained equality by working hard? Are you serious? Black people were slaves in our country's early history and no amount of working hard would have stopped that. In fact, they were still tread upon once slavery ended, and it took an entire nationwide civil rights effort to finally gain them recognition. No amount of hard work will change the people in power. That's why laws exist to this day that protect minority groups, because there are still ignorant people who would fire them or persecute them based on those differences. This isn't about getting an advantage. This is about getting laws and regulations in place to protect minority groups from unjust infringements on their liberties. In most states, it is still 100% legal for a boss to fire a gay person for no other reason than them being gay. That is an abuse of power, and if laws cannot be enacted to stop it, there will never be equality. There always HAS to be a fight for equality, there can never been this passive "work hard and it'll happen" idea that you imply will work. It won't.

You do realize I said "human" history right? As in things outside of just african slavery. The jews were enslaved, the Irish were oppressed, Italian americans had it rough, chinese migrant workers were treated pretty damn poorly, every group oppressed by the Roman/English/Dutch/French empires?

No? I geuss they don't count because they aren't current enough. Don't pick one story of societal failure and say that is the only way things can happen.

SearnoJun 15, 20162 votes

I wasn't going to say anything until this comment until this, "keep working hard and eventually you will have the equality you deserve". Although I know you mean well but this is extremely insensitive to say that we should work for equality, like gays or any other form of minority don't deserve it to begin with.

RampageRafshanJun 15, 20161 votes

Riot does not owe LGBT community any responses or public condemnation. If they did this, they would have to do this for a million more reasons. It's sad your asking a game company to make public statement citing "stand up for my people". Take all your people hit the streets and ask for gun control instead. There's no ending to this. 16 mass shootings in 1 week. Mourning and crying has done nothing till now. It's high time we all stood up against guns. We are too busy discussing the motives of the criminals when it's not even the issue. I can walk into a store and come out with an assault rifle... Yes it's that bad. Our politicians love the blame game which leads to nothing. Thus, I'm pretty sure we all can agree we don't need assault weapons capable of firing 50 rounds per min for so called "self diffense".

AraMoOseJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Riot does not owe LGBT community any responses or public condemnation. If they did this, they would have to do this for a million more reasons. It's sad your asking a game company to make public statement citing "stand up for my people". Take all your people hit the streets and ask for gun control instead. There's no ending to this. 16 mass shootings in 1 week. Mourning and crying has done nothing till now. It's high time we all stood up against guns. We are too busy discussing the motives of the criminals when it's not even the issue. I can walk into a store and come out with an assault rifle... Yes it's that bad. Our politicians love the blame game which leads to nothing. Thus, I'm pretty sure we all can agree we don't need assault weapons capable of firing 50 rounds per min for so called "self diffense".

Your response is astoundingly besides the point. There is no reason to give up one social issue simply because there is another one to address.

MacabrayJun 15, 20162 votes

You guys are totally right. Riot doesn't owe anybody anything. They've made an awesome game with a really cool community. I don't think they owe the LGBT+ community anything. I don't think they owe people of color or jewish people or women anything either. I do think, though, that if they chose to make a statement it would be hard to ignore. It could really encourage members of the league community to also take homophobia more seriously. Rampage makes a really good point about gun control, but I think that gun control is more something that we as voters have to contact representatives about.

Thanks, AraMoOse for being so on point with this insight. :)

BaunjoJun 15, 20163 votes

Homophobia... I can't say many people need lessons on why they shouldn't be afraid of gay people. I'm most certain nobody is.

Nik NikersonJun 15, 20161 votes

I see someone doesn't understand what colloquial usage is.

BaunjoJun 15, 20161 votes

I see someone doesn't need to use colloquial terms in something they believe to be serious whatsoever. Especially not in the way it is used.

Nik NikersonJun 15, 20161 votes

Okay, so what term should be used?

BaunjoJun 16, 20163 votes

NONE! For a community that insists on equality of all people, you sure do a great job of labeling people with an unnecessary colloquial term just because they do not agree with you.

These posts from LGBT communities are all on grounds of " we deserve this, we deserve that "

Those who are heterosexual and may not agree with your views deserve not to be discriminated against either, calling someone a homophobe is just as offensive as me calling someone a dke or a fg, something I would never do because I was raised to love people whether I agree with them or not.

So, to answer your question, rather than defaming those who disagree with you, the very concept you ALL fight against, refer to them as any other human being.

EDIT: that censoring didn't really work out like it was meant to xD

Nik NikersonJun 16, 20161 votes

You're jumping all over the place. Stick to one argument at a time. No one labeled anyone. Or at least I certainly didn't. And I certainly didn't call you, or anyone else, a homophobe. I asked if you don't want to use the term homophobia, what term should be used to described discrimination against gays.

You were the one that went "Homophobia means being scared of gays!", so if you don't want to use that word to describe discrimination against gays, I would like to know what word or term we should use. Just because you may not think something is an example of discrimination against gays, doesn't mean it doesn't occur. I would like to know what term I use when talking about it.

And for the record calling someone a homophobe isn't as offensive as those other words. You know how I can prove that? You didn't have to censor the word homophobe.

BaunjoJun 16, 20161 votes

Making this post was frankly labeling people. " Riot is in a unique position to reach demographic groups that are typically completely sheltered from messages of acceptance and tolerance for LGBT+ persons "

Not ONLY that, she needed to include in her description of the shooter in that horrible crime " homophobic, straight male "

Your use of the word " homophobia " is what bothered me the most. You used colloquial to describe it, i'm sure you know the definition of that word so I need not tell you. But the fact that homophobia is considered colloquial terminology in this day in age is frankly absurd. I would argue that it is a similar thing to labeling someone as a racist. Is calling someone a racist part of " colloquial " terminology? Really?

I censored the two derogatory terms because they are derogatory. Though I do not censor " racist " or " homophobe " they are still offensive to people as a broad term. After all, the OP said " I haven't been immune to the homophobia present in people's attitudes and therefore in games "

Yeah people use derogatory terms for gay people in colloquial conversations, and in game, but they do not ALL hate gay people. I sincerely feel like there is just as much " hate " and " descrimination " towards people who do not necessarily agree with homosexuality as there are for people who are homosexual.

BarkhoofJun 15, 20162 votes

As it is, they overwhelmingly ban or at least escalate punishment for people that utter insulting slurs. I'm not sure how much further you'd like them to take the punishments.

^ That being said, I agree that type of speech has no place in [civilized] society.

RampageRafshanJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Your response is astoundingly besides the point. There is no reason to give up one social issue simply because there is another one to address.

I am pretty sure killing 100000 innocent people in the middle east and bombing 13 different countries that never did anything to us is a bigger issue that some lone wolf killing 50 people almost entirely avoidable if we didn't have these silly gun laws. You see your the problem, you talk about "social issues" and then you ignore my entire commentcomment saying "besides the point" "There is no reason to give up one social issue simply because there is another one to address." You see she doesn't really care that we are killing innocent people in the middle east or the fact that top president candidate calling Mexicans and Muslims rapist criminals who should be banned from country. The moment you say "my people" That's the moment we lose. We are one people one nation and we should be standing up for everyone. But let's be honest, is that the case? That's is why when these things happen, no one owes anyone anything except the criminal himself. The social issue here is not homophobia but gun control. We as American are afraid if everything. We fear Mexican, Muslims,Gays, anything that looks different from us we are made to fear. This is the fear that sells weapons.

OleandervineJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I am pretty sure killing 100000 innocent people in the middle east and bombing 13 different countries that never did anything to us is a bigger issue that some lone wolf killing 50 people almost entirely avoidable if we didn't have these silly gun laws. You see your the problem, you talk about "social issues" and then you ignore my entire commentcomment saying "besides the point" "There is no reason to give up one social issue simply because there is another one to address." You see she doesn't really care that we are killing innocent people in the middle east or the fact that top president candidate calling Mexicans and Muslims rapist criminals who should be banned from country. The moment you say "my people" That's the moment we lose. We are one people one nation and we should be standing up for everyone. But let's be honest, is that the case? That's is why when these things happen, no one owes anyone anything except the criminal himself. The social issue here is not homophobia but gun control. We as American are afraid if everything. We fear Mexican, Muslims,Gays, anything that looks different from us we are made to fear. This is the fear that sells weapons.

I wonder if you're aware that the recent shooter was a certified security guard who had all the licensing he needed from his job to purchase those guns. Gun laws wouldn't have affected him because his place of employment gave him unique gun purchasing privileges.

RampageRafshanJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I wonder if you're aware that the recent shooter was a certified security guard who had all the licensing he needed from his job to purchase those guns. Gun laws wouldn't have affected him because his place of employment gave him unique gun purchasing privileges.

He had a licensed assault rifle used by US military in the 60's something. What place of working can you please tell me allows you to legally purchase military grade assault rifle? Yes please tell me where he worked.

OleandervineJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He had a licensed assault rifle used by US military in the 60's something. What place of working can you please tell me allows you to legally purchase military grade assault rifle? Yes please tell me where he worked.

The type of gun doesn't matter so long as the type of license he carries allows them purchase of whatever grade firearm that gun falls into.

RampageRafshanJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The type of gun doesn't matter so long as the type of license he carries allows them purchase of whatever grade firearm that gun falls into.

Your avoiding my question.. OK what type of license he had? And what makes him eligible to have it?

OleandervineJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Your avoiding my question.. OK what type of license he had? And what makes him eligible to have it?

He had a class D security officer license and a class G gun holders license that also allowed for 2 concealed firearms. He passed background checks, 40 hours of security officer training, and had his prints and pictures on file. Additionally, the FBI had investigated him TWICE prior to the shooting, and yet still allowed him to go around unabated.

MacabrayJun 15, 20161 votes

The social issue here is not homophobia but gun control. We as American are afraid if everything. We fear Mexican, Muslims,Gays, anything that looks different from us we are made to fear. This is the fear that sells weapons.

I think you've really hit the nail on the head. We perpetuate fear because it sells news, and that is unbelievably sad. You are completely right when you say that homophobia is only part of the problem. We discriminate against brown people, women, LGBT+ people, people with disabilities, and people with mental illness.

I think one of the major problems is that America tells people that some lives are worth less than others. It is the belief that one human life can be worth less than another that leads people to be able to kill. I don't think we disagree, I think we are simply looking at the same problem from different sides.

RampageRafshanJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think you've really hit the nail on the head. We perpetuate fear because it sells news, and that is unbelievably sad. You are completely right when you say that homophobia is only part of the problem. We discriminate against brown people, women, LGBT+ people, people with disabilities, and people with mental illness.

I think one of the major problems is that America tells people that some lives are worth less than others. It is the belief that one human life can be worth less than another that leads people to be able to kill. I don't think we disagree, I think we are simply looking at the same problem from different sides.

Exactly <3 the first thing to fight is fear itself. Stay strong. Even tho our beliefs might not match. We must stand up for each other. From the slightest fear mongering to the highest bigotry, we must stick together. That's when we win and the fear mongerers, the terrorists, the psychopaths lose.

MacabrayJun 15, 20163 votes

I do think, though, that a strong message of acceptance is an important way to start kicking fear in the butt. That's why I think any message from Riot--even if it was just "hey, just a friendly reminder, we take homophobic, racist, and sexist comments seriously"-- would be super important. It wouldn't' fix everything. One group saying something never does. But, it could be a start. What if EVERY company, every church, every teacher took a stand? What if we took a stand FOR kindness? That would be truly radical.

AraMoOseJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I do think, though, that a strong message of acceptance is an important way to start kicking fear in the butt. That's why I think any message from Riot--even if it was just "hey, just a friendly reminder, we take homophobic, racist, and sexist comments seriously"-- would be super important. It wouldn't' fix everything. One group saying something never does. But, it could be a start. What if EVERY company, every church, every teacher took a stand? What if we took a stand FOR kindness? That would be truly radical.

Just wanted to throw out there that there is such a statement in the tips during the loading screen. It says something very close to : "Did you know?: The community overwhelmingly votes to punish racism and homophobia".

RampageRafshanJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I do think, though, that a strong message of acceptance is an important way to start kicking fear in the butt. That's why I think any message from Riot--even if it was just "hey, just a friendly reminder, we take homophobic, racist, and sexist comments seriously"-- would be super important. It wouldn't' fix everything. One group saying something never does. But, it could be a start. What if EVERY company, every church, every teacher took a stand? What if we took a stand FOR kindness? That would be truly radical.

I have been called a terrorist before because of my name by almost 5 people but obviously none of them were punished because. "You brown Terrorist", "You filthy Muslims should leave our country", "So you kill people for a living huh", "Stop enjoying our freedom", "Since when did terrorists start playing League" "Go join ISIS mofo" and what not lol. I was born in US. I am white although they call me brown terrorist and I am a successful young man trying to chase my dreams and like everyone else have fun playing League. I know how it feels when someone trash talks you because you are gay

AraMoOseJun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I am pretty sure killing 100000 innocent people in the middle east and bombing 13 different countries that never did anything to us is a bigger issue that some lone wolf killing 50 people almost entirely avoidable if we didn't have these silly gun laws. You see your the problem, you talk about "social issues" and then you ignore my entire commentcomment saying "besides the point" "There is no reason to give up one social issue simply because there is another one to address." You see she doesn't really care that we are killing innocent people in the middle east or the fact that top president candidate calling Mexicans and Muslims rapist criminals who should be banned from country. The moment you say "my people" That's the moment we lose. We are one people one nation and we should be standing up for everyone. But let's be honest, is that the case? That's is why when these things happen, no one owes anyone anything except the criminal himself. The social issue here is not homophobia but gun control. We as American are afraid if everything. We fear Mexican, Muslims,Gays, anything that looks different from us we are made to fear. This is the fear that sells weapons.

Again I can't help but feel you are missing the point. It is possible to both fight for gun control AND against discrimination.

I'd also like to address your post criticizing the use of the term "homoPHOBIA". Everyone understands what that word means and so do you. Arguing over the semantics is simply not useful and prevents us from discussing the issue itself. There is a word used to describe discrimination against gays. The problem is not the word, it is the behavior.

JorenciceJun 16, 20161 votes

He called illegal Mexican immigrants rapists.

And if you look at the statistics a good majority of them ARE criminals.

He never said anything about muslims being rapists. He just wanted to protect the country by closing the borders while we are in a war with them...

Also maybe if there was less criminals we wouldn't need as many guns.

RampageRafshanJun 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He called illegal Mexican immigrants rapists.

And if you look at the statistics a good majority of them ARE criminals.

He never said anything about muslims being rapists. He just wanted to protect the country by closing the borders while we are in a war with them...

Also maybe if there was less criminals we wouldn't need as many guns.

LOL the ignoreance and irony of people like you... Talking about statistics but don't know 90% of the gun violence is done by US citizens themselves and here you are telling me how the Mexicans are criminals and you need guns to protect yourself. "We are in a war with them" What are you dreaming about? Funny paid Trump trolls even made it in boards. "We are in a war with them".. Because Trump said so

JorenciceJun 16, 20161 votes

[deleted]

RampageRafshanJun 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What? What the hell does Mexican criminals have to do with gun violence? There many ways you can be a criminal without guns. Ever heard of mexican drug cartels?

Also yea... we have been at war with muslims for years now WAY before trump came into the picture.

Have you not heard of ISIS? Or are you one of those that just ignore the atrocities they commit.

I saw a video where a isis fighter beat a women to death with her own baby. Well until the baby's limbs came off and he couldnt hold on to it any more.

But nah muslims are good people and we aren't at war with them.

Wait wait, are you even educated? Or a 12 year old? So 1 terrorist group which makes up 0.00000397% of 1.8billion people commit terrorism and you saw one of their videos and all of a sudden you are incapable of understanding you are the definition of bigotry. I don't want to but it's so dumb and stupid.I saw a white guy run inside a school and kill 20 kids with assault rifle, therefore "we are In war with white Caucasian Christian Americans because they are all bad and all responsible for this one guy" you are this dumb really. I bet 100$ you support Donald Trump. "have you not heard of ISIS" Yes everyone did. I however don't understand why and how they represent 1.8billon people that I would be a retarded enough to say "we are in war with Muslims" instead of "we are in war with ISIS". I know you are an ignorant little kid but ever heard of Muhammad Ali? You do realize he was a Muslim right? He was a bad guy huh!? "we have been in war with Muslims way before Trump came" No you little ignorant kid, we have been in war with terrorists in middle east. If we were in war with Muslims, US would have been wiped clean off the globe because all the major countries are on their side and they got the oil not us.

JorenciceJun 16, 20161 votes

Sigh... guess who the majority of people in the middle east are.

Muslims.

Guess who the majority of ISIS is.

Muslims

Which means GASP we are at war with muslims.

Are we at war with ALL muslims of course not no one thinks that.

But does that mean we SHOULDN'T TAKE SOME FUCKING PRECAUTIONS.

If Even ONE American life is saved by closing the borders it's worth.

What's the worse that would happen. We ruin someone's vacation?

Also you should look up Americans military strength. If we used MAD tactics we could probly destroy the entire world.

Hell our navy is bigger than the next 10 COMBINED.