Boards›Player Behavior

Defending against the toxic means you're being toxic?

Åndrømeda·2/2/2019, 4:43:46 AM·2 votes·2,258 views

Here's my question: Why does the millions upon millions of dollars Riot makes every single month not provide REAL people handling reports and complaints? The bots they have that bans/chat restricts individuals in game is madness, and it's really, really frustrating to the point of no longer wanting to play League of Legends anymore. While I have not personally been banned (except for once years ago) or given a 14 day suspension, I have been in games with my friends that have received them. Why? Defending themselves. People will enter a game, being so rude, toxic, and overall the kind of person that SHOULD be banned from League. If they start smack-talking, are rude, refuse to help, intentionally throw, etc etc and then get reported for it, nothing happens, regardless of the amount of reports. But if anyone else defends against their harassment, weather it be tryping, pings, etc (Because believe it or not riot some of us have enough pride to do so) we get banned away for their one report when THEY were the problem. Why is this like elementary school? where it doesn't matter who starts it fighting is fighting? Pushing the example further then it actually is: if someone hits you are you going to cower like a child and ignore it? No. You hit back. That's human nature. Same way with arguing, and fighting. Sure, they install a mute button for a reason, but that only makes things a lot harder to play. If you mute the pings from your Jungler, How do you know they're coming in? Check the map, sure, and if you're currently in combat with someone what then? that second to look at your map could make the difference in a fight. Lack of team communication can make the entire difference between a win or a loss. Riots system is being flawed and the worst part is that they don't care. Their customer support is incomprehensibly awful. Their communication to their player base is three times as bad. It's almost like trying to work with a wall. Fix your system Riot. It's only hurting you and your players. League is slowly dying, People's jobs will eventually be on the line, and if you assume that the words of one individual doesnt matter in the grand sceme of things, then eventually those "one person" instances will pile up,

6 Comments

insomniacjezz2/2/2019, 4:46:49 AM4 votes

Because it isn’t appropriate to meet toxicity with additional toxicity.

Kei1432/2/2019, 11:11:20 AM4 votes

Let's have you understand the behavioral system a bit more. Think of it like a health bar (or tension meter) in music games. When you hit the note at an off beat, your tension meter increases. When you completely miss a note, the meter increases by alot. When you hit the note at perfect timings, it reduces the meter.

Riot's behavior system works the same way, as in we all have a toxicity meter attached to our accounts. When players are mildly toxic, it goes up a tad. When people use hate speech, it pretty much fills up the meter.

It is possible for playerA to get punished and playerB not to, even though playerB was waaayyyyy more toxic . Let's say playerA started the game with the toxicity meter at 95% and playerB's at 35%. Ingame, playerB said some pretty nasty shit and playerA responds with some shit as well. After the game, playerA gains 10% toxicity and playerB gains 50%. Now playerA is at 105% toxicity and gets punished, whereas playerB is at 85%, and not punished in that specific game, even though playerB was found to be 5x more toxic than playerA in that game.

The system itself is pretty fair, more like people don't understand the system and don't know that it punishes based on consistency x severity. The method of punishment is not what needs to be fixed, it's the education and the clarity of the system.

SEKAI2/2/2019, 4:51:06 AM3 votes

Here's my question: Why does the millions upon millions of dollars Riot makes every single month not provide REAL people handling reports and complaints?

Because there are million matches played concurrently during peak hours alone, so you can count just how many matches there are just per day. And most matches end with someone reported because League playerbase. And said report handlers probably (and I hope) wouldn't be working the entire day 24 hours and also on weekends, too, so it's simply inevitable that reports would be pushed back more and more after each day and week even if they manage to keep on schedule in the first few hours of the very first day.

Even if Riot decided to operate a sweat shops somewhere or something and ignores human rights and the weekend aspect entirely, it is most likely still an impossible prospect to keep up with it with just how many reports there are. I mean, do you suppose Riot hires like an entire state of a relatively populated country or something to just filter the report?

AND even if we do somehow have the man-power to go through reports once (keyword) in a timely manner, it still wouldn't work. Because human errors and biases are obviously far more frequent in humans than an machine-learning algorithm would. This would mean that a single case would have to be processed multiple times in order to eliminate errors and bias, further multiplying the amount of time required for a task otherwise already taking up hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people working all 24 hours of the day and 7 days of the week without a single second of break.

It's just impossible.

RallerenP2/2/2019, 10:18:33 AM3 votes

Here's my question: Why does the millions upon millions of dollars Riot makes every single month not provide REAL people handling reports and complaints?

I calculated this a while ago. It was just taking in statistics for trolling though. If we combine it with having to analyze chat the numbers will ofcourse be different. There will be more cases to analyze, but each case may only take half the time.

But then, how many people would you actually need to do that? LeagueOfGraphs.com has analysed 6 million matches in the last two days. So ~3 million matches per day. If we assume that in around 10% of these games, someone is reported for trolling that would make 300k matches each day.

Now how long does analysing, judging and dealing punishment take? Generously, atleast 20 minutes on average per case. Some matches it will be a quick decision, others not so much. So now we're up to 6 million minutes of work, each day.

That's:

100.000 hours.

4.166 days.

595 weeks

134 months

11 years.

11 years of work, all to be done in a single work day.

That's too much. Even if you could pay for that many employees, they'll all still need training. They'll need exact guidelines to be semi-consistent.

But they'll still not be consistent. They'll all have slightly different opinions of what should be punished, and what shouldn't.

It doesn't matter who started it and what not. If someone is flaming you, you mute and report them.

In real life, 'defending' yourself may work because it'll deter whoever is attacking you. But in League, not so much. Defending yourself will 100% of the time just lead to MORE toxicity.

Why is this like elementary school? where it doesn't matter who starts it fighting is fighting?

Because it's only elementary school kids that think saying: "they started it!", is a valid excuse for their actions.

DrCyanide2/2/2019, 11:23:18 AM3 votes

But if anyone else defends against their harassment, weather it be tryping, pings, etc (Because believe it or not riot some of us have enough pride to do so) we get banned away for their one report when THEY were the problem.

I've never heard of a single person banned because they muted another player, which is the ultimate defense.

Your family's honor is not on the line when a random player in game starts up a fight. People let themselves get baited into breaking the rules on things that don't matter. It's possible to respond to what the person is saying without breaking the rules yourself.

Kuumailmapallo2/2/2019, 4:46:02 AM2 votes

To fix the issue, one needs to locate the source of the issue. Unfortunately, that requires effort that can otherwise be put into Ashe skins and Ivern memes and will likely never be fixed.