Let's talk toxicity - An open discussion about Player Behavior [1/2]

ModWuks··25 votes·3,910 views

The following are my OWN opinions based on my observations over the past few months. Comments aren't representative of any other group or individual other than my own.

http://i.imgur.com/Y2Tadof.jpg

I check this sub-board on a daily basis; sometimes, it's a Miscellaneous day where I just feel like posting casually, and other times, I'll sit down and type out a few responses to some threads here. But regardless of whether I post in PBM that day or not, I read through a good number of threads and I empathize with the points that a lot of players make.

Right now, I'm at a weird place, and here are a few of my thoughts:

  1. While the Tribunal was active, Summoners were able to review cases by reading the entire chat logs of a player (enemies, allies, and reportee alike). There was context, and perhaps a bit of leniency with manual review by peers. Albeit, the system was flawed and abused by a few and was often slow to react, but I think most people had positive perceptions of the Tribunal.
  2. I can't shake the feeling that there's a shift in what acceptable behavior looks like. I might be completely wrong about this, and this may simply because the bounds of where the system stands on certain behaviors is ambiguous, but I think there's an atmosphere for some players where they're too afraid to talk, for fear of being flagged by the Instant Feedback system. While trash talking isn't the most respectful or good mannered thing to do, I personally don't think that it would be worthy of a permanent suspension through the escalation process.

I see where Riot is coming from. Mutual respect between players isn't the most unreasonable thing to ask for. In a medium where anonymity spawns toxicity through a lack of fear of repercussions, Riot is forging a new path in combating these negative tendencies.

These are my thoughts. I'm here as an Arbiter to facilitate and foster discussions about Player Behavior & Moderation, and a good majority of the time, I'll speak in the context of the existing Player Behavior and Reform systems; but today, I want to gauge where the you stand and read your sentiments on the changes over the past two years.

What are your personal opinions on the current environment in the game? What are your thoughts on the existing Player Behavior and Reform systems, such as Instant Feedback, Positive Play Rewards, etc? What is your idea of the IDEAL Player Behavior & Reform system? Feel free to drop any additional questions or comments that you have. I'll do my best to read all of the comments, and respond where it's appropriate for me to step in. [Post 2/2 coming at a later time]

Thanks much, Wuks

151 Comments

theArtifacts9 votes

Part of the problem right now is that premades do not report eachother and are intentionally toxic towards the odd men out. They won't get reported enough to get flagged and will often team up on reports the second they push someone over the edge; causing the more innocent of the players to receive punishment.

Deep Terror Nami15 votes

It only takes one report to flag them. Premades have none of the power people think they do.

xXxAltaïrrxXx1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=tPKdENKB,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-08-17T02:41:32.831+0000)

It only takes one report to flag them. Premades have none of the power people think they do.

Tell me how this is true based on this guy case?How is this worth permaban?http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EdwZvREX-perma-banned-for-nothing

Deep Terror Nami5 votes

That isn't the only thing that resulted in his permaban. He isn't sharing everything, and/or needs to take it up with Riot. Sometimes it really is a mistake and Riot will fix it if that's the case.

tacofacefart1 votes

get reported by premades = get banned

Deep Terror Nami5 votes

Premade reports do not stack. If a premade reported you and you get banned, you would've been banned even if it were a single solo player reporting you.

scazzman3 votes

in all honesty. we dont have any proof of this. other than riot's word. and given thier history of bush beating and pussyfooting instead of actually dealing with crap. doesnt mean much

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

Thankfully, the system doesn't run on belief.

DevilishMetal6 votes

Yknow, I've always tried to keep an open mind about things in general. It only occurred to me recently how hard it actually is to do so.

I used to have a weird viewpoint on humanity in general (partly due to this game), where I questioned general morality of human beings. Like, how can people think this is okay? Even after 3 warnings, people continue to say these awful things, and I didn't really get it.

I was thinking about this one day, and I came to a thought that changed my entire perspective- people's actions are almost always based on what they have done and have had done to them throughout their lives. While it didn't necessarily justify the use of "kys" or other things of that nature, it does make you think a bit about the nature of this thing we call "toxicity".

Basically, my viewpoint is that toxicity isn't something Riot can solve- it's a much deeper problem than a video game.

The rest is open to interpretation, I guess.

Davarril1 votes

A few select people saying mean things in a video game doesn't at all represent the human condition as a whole.

And saying toxicity is "a much deeper problem" gives rude dudes too much credit. They're just rude, self centered people taking their own frustrations and shortcomings out on other people for the sole purpose of making themselves feel better.

Itankyou2 votes

Rule #1, don't talk about fight club

EDIT: His name is Robert Paulson

Sylas Dr3gb0urn31 votes

I completely disagree with Davarril, 100% I agree with DevilishMetal. I think that when people are free from ACTUAL real life repercussion, due to being anonymous over the internet, causes them to remove their filter. And once that filter is removed, you see the real person behind the facade of their day to day lives, which is sometimes better(i have a friend who has never said one word, much less a mean word, on league but in real life will cuss each and every person he sees out), and a lot times worse (I'd like to think in real life, I am the sweetest person you will ever meet, and I know I WOULD give you the shirt off my back on a cold day, IF you had none, even if you were my enemy. YET, on league, this is not the case). I think L.o.L. only brings this out more than other games, due to the higher-level competitiveness that you just do not see as STRONG in other games. I agree that we are seeing it MORE and NOT less with the new system. However, I genuinely believe, despite rarely, if ever, seeing proof those I reported were actually punished, that this new system is better than the old.

So, while I agree there is something that we can do to change things, I think it starts with the summoner's and NOT RIOT.

My reasoning for this is simple. The games that I remember that I can mute a toxic player and actually do mute them, MY OWN PERFORMANCE, increases DRAMATICALLY. And furthermore on games that have zero toxic players, and no one is muted, while they are definitely MORE FUN than the games that I had to mute people on, My performance is never as great as the games I do mute. This, is what I have recognized from my own games.

GAME TYPE ONE: Toxic players and muted players with no chat logs to review and only pings: -My PERFORMANCE IS EPIC. I even surprise myself. and I typically learn something I did not know about MY OWN champ, or about another players almost each and every time.

GAME TYPE TWO: ZERO Toxic players, ZERO MUTES, and typically happy players. -MY PERFORMANCE is GREAT but not epic. I performed the way I expected to perform, I rarely learn anything NEW. I leave the game feeling warm and fuzzy and I had an awesome time playing it.

GAME TYPE THREE: Toxic players but ZERO MUTES. -MY PERFORMANCE was CRAP. MY ATTITUDE became defeatist at some point in the game. And I was probably subjected to someone with very little skill telling me to kill myself. And I leave the game feeling frustrated at both the community and humans in general.

GAME TYPE FOUR: This game type is almost always as a result of game type one or game type three in the previous match. But is occasionally, a result of a bad queue (pregame) experience with another player(s). I DON'T EVEN KNOW if or CARE if they were toxic in game. I had instantly /MUTE ALL the second that this game type started. -My PERFORMANCE IS EPIC. I even surprise myself. and I typically learn something I did not know about MY OWN champ, or about another players almost each and every time.

Gary B Enkelis2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ALL PLAY NO CHAT,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=tPKdENKB,comment-id=000700000001,timestamp=2016-08-18T01:50:53.472+0000)

GAME TYPE FOUR: This game type is almost always as a result of game type one or game type three in the previous match. But is occasionally, a result of a bad queue (pregame) experience with another player(s). I DON'T EVEN KNOW if or CARE if they were toxic in game. I had instantly /MUTE ALL the second that this game type started. -My PERFORMANCE IS EPIC. I even surprise myself. and I typically learn something I did not know about MY OWN champ, or about another players almost each and every time.

I would do this but I get so lonely and my hate brings me down.

Davarril2 votes

Toxicity is just prideful people doing/saying rude things to other people just trying to play the game.

You can either be smart and mute them, or escalate the situation by flaming back in chat.

Mistress Shyvana5 votes

I really like this post. You made some really good points

Good luck.

Sorin Alucard4 votes

You're absolutely right. You can't speak up especially when matched with premades. The community is disappointing imo. I'd rather mute them all at start and never exchange any other forms of conversation, but the trolling can start in select. You can't mute them in lobby, and you can't report them til the full game is over. If you dodge, you lose the lp. The advantage lies in the hands of people who don't care about their fellow players. They know what they can get away with.

ModWuks7 votes

The reform system is a bit ambiguous, but I can at least provide you with a bit of clarity with your statements:

  1. It doesn't matter whether you're against a premade or not. So long as a player has a credible report weight by not abusing the report system, the Instant Feedback system will review the chat logs and identify any negative/toxic behavior.
  2. You can mute players in lobby by adding them to your "Block" list, and you can report them by submitting a ticket if you don't have access to the Report feature. Instant Feedback, however, is the only way to ensure that a player's behavior is reviewed.
  3. While there are individuals within the community who go out of their way to create a negative experience for other players, the majority of players I've come across are either neutral and utilize the chat primarily to gameplay coordination, or positive and will gladly banter with you, etc.

Going into matches with the mentality that the community as a whole is toxic isn't a good mindset. Individuals are toxic, and the Instant Feedback system does a pretty good job of identifying these players and punishing them quickly.

GankRiven2 votes

but the community as a wole is toxic. i made a new account and every single game i was flamed or placed with someone who just absolutely ruined the team morale. how can you say the community isnt toxic when it is. and i bet im going to get downvoted just for telling it how it is.

ModWuks3 votes

There's no reason for people to downvote your post; we're just having a discussion here and it'd be counterintuitive to decrease visibility on any aspect of the discussion. You bring up your experience with the game, and that's not something I can dispute.

You say that League of Legends is a toxic game because there's a toxic player in each of your games; however, if you're not being toxic, then there's about 8 other people who aren't being toxic. If this is the case, then why isn't League of Legends considered a non-toxic game?

GankRiven1 votes

everybody thinks that because its league and riot hypes the esports scene, every game has to be competitive when i and others like me work long hours just to make ends meet and want to play a game or w/e to relax. for me i play league and fell in love with riven hence i am a riven main. yet to play every game and get tilted just because i cant play one game where people arent already calling me shit in champ select, or telling me to refund my skin, or stop playing riven in game and post game. muting doesnt work, as much as riot support, employees and arbiters want you to believe. and yes i loved when the tribunal was here because atleast everyone reported got a fair chance!

Gary B Enkelis2 votes

{quoted}

everybody thinks that because its league and riot hypes the esports scene, every game has to be competitive when i and others like me work long hours just to make ends meet and want to play a game or w/e to relax. for me i play league and fell in love with riven hence i am a riven main. yet to play every game and get tilted just because i cant play one game where people arent already calling me shit in champ select, or telling me to refund my skin, or stop playing riven in game and post game. muting doesnt work, as much as riot support, employees and arbiters want you to believe. and yes i loved when the tribunal was here because atleast everyone reported got a fair chance!

Maybe I missed your point but if the game is set to be this competitive way and you want to play it your uncompetitive way then can't you form a group of others like you and play custom games?

Picanha961 votes

Mine?

ModWuks3 votes

{quoted}

Mine?

If you actually think I went around downvoting you, believe me when I say that I have better things to do.

Utility Backline4 votes

I'm someone who has almost strictly played solo queue since season 1 began. It is my honest opinion that nothing has changed, just the stylistic choice of how to be an asshole has changed. Let me explain

Season 1 - Was an absolute free for all. I still remember my first toxic experience. A guy was mad about not getting bot lane as Nunu and he and his duo sat in fountain all game. I remember everyone pissed at him and that first hopeless moment where I knew we would lose a game via toxicity. Nothing happened to him, and I realized I was in the wild west. I'm not pissed about this reality, because I am someone who can be very toxic myself. I am a provoker or someone who was willing to throw a win over a minor issue.

Season 2/3 - Tribunal years. Felt great. You never knew what happened to those you reported, but when you voted yes on a separate tribunal case, you almost felt like you were hitting yes on the guy who screwed you over. Naturally I also got punished numerous times, so I had a huge sense that the tribunal was effective. I reported 10 guys, I tribunal voted yes 10 guys, and I got punished 10 times. It seemed flawless. Even if it wasn't working, only Riot would know that, imo they should've left tribunal and left us in a placebo effect.

Season 4/5 - Lyte Years. Worst time. Worst method. I remember being punished for the most minor of instances in Season 4 til I fully 'reformed' and by that I mean I learned like everyone else how to game the system. No one reformed, everyone just learned to become a professional victim. Someone said the most minor thing "Yo utility backline, can you not touch my minions when I am trying to cs?" "yo adc, watch your micro aggression, I'm really butthurt you treated me with such blatant toxicity." Meanwhile the rest of your team saw this interaction and decide to band wagon to vent as well "yeah adc don't be rude, why are you so toxic" to the point where the adc flips out and afks/feeds or returns the victim game back "yo why are you 4 cyberbullying me".

Season 6 - 4 Strikes. New system is super scary. 4th strike is a perma. Thats brutal. Not sure what to make of it yet. It feels like Season 4/5 though where if you even misword something, you even give the smallest ounce of toxicity, everyone runs with it, makes you out to be a Hitler. Its super annoying, but then again so was every other season. Its just the nature of the beast. Ranked is toxic because you only have 2 options. Win or lose. Losing is the absolute worst and winning is the absolute best. Therefore if you're losing, getting someone on your teamto feel like they are about to get a 2 week suspension fills the void that winning has on a persons mental game. It helps you grind ranked. Many will likely say thats untrue, but they are lying. Winning is equal to getting a teammate banned. Either way you've made someone else feel like shit, and thats the whole purpose of ranked. Make 5 guys feel like shit or 1 teammate.

Praetor Notorias4 votes

I had a long thought on this, but basically the reforming process doesn't address the culture of league. Theory crafting used to be a major part of it, now everyone expects someone else to theory craft for them and they get mad when someone doesn't do it exactly like they saw this one guy on youtube do it.

League stopped being fun for me when winning was important. So the culture is all fucked up right now and the reforming system only deals with raw toxicity. There isn't anything in place to teach people to not expect every game to be the same.

But the most fun games I do have tend to be the ones with the weird builds. I'm getting very close to 2k wins so the cookie cutter games are really boring.

When my friends are actually on league we tend to dominate because we're used to doing off stuff, plus they don't play enough to know what meta is anyways.

ModWuks1 votes

What are some things that you would change about League of Legends if you could?

Praetor Notorias2 votes

The enforced meta of two bot, mid, jungle, and top is not good for the culture of league.

Itankyou3 votes

I agree with you Wuks (and I appreciate your posts in these forums lol you're always so positive :P). Point #2 is spot on. To me however I am afraid of typing anything other than gl hf at the start of the game and gg at the end of the game for fear of being flagged by the system anymore (that might be because I value my account so much and have been playing since season 1 and recently got a 14 day ban with no email :().

The current environment in the game feels to me like no matter what anyone says, it must be passive aggressive or insincere in some way because it is always met with someone spamming 'report him' or something along the lines of 'kys' for just asking for a ward or something stupid.

The current system has really come down heavily on playful jabs between teamates aswell and bans them as if they are the scum of the earth, imho, a lot the system is catching is the scum of the earth but it's definitely not perfect and I felt that the tribunal did a reasonable job at clearing up that stuff as well.

I see a lot of people becoming discouraged that they were not told that threatening reports in game is a ban-able offense, I think this is what is discouraging a lot of people on these boards. This leaves people to beleive that they shouldn't say anything and just take the abuse that they 'rightfully deserve' (atleast that is the mindset; and discouraging mindset at that). Overall, the automatic system leaves most of us wondering just what happened to culture of the game that used to exist long, long ago.

End of rant.

RobTheTank3 votes

In League games, just like in real life, I keep my mouth shut most of the time. They say, "You can't be quoted on what you don't say."

There have been times when I've been mean to the enemy team but only to degrade their morale. Psychological warfare is how I saw it. Then someone on the Boards pointed out that that was a violation of the Summoner's Code so I stopped.

But I say a little amount of toxicity can be beneficial at least to the extent that the toxicity points out the seriousness of the situation. For example I work in maintenance and construction during the summers and I was once using a saw incorrectly and my boss started yelling at me, "STOP WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE DOING YOU DUMBASS MOTHERFUCKER OR YOU'LL CUT YOUR FUCKING FINGERS OFF!!"

I still have all my fingers and I've gotten very good at using a saw safely since then, I tell you what. I realize a loss in a game of League is not equal to a loss of fingers but my point is that some toxicity should be permitted as long as its to "whip a player into shape" as it were while not attacking the player themselves.

ModWuks3 votes

Love the example at the end.

Not sure how well it'd translate to League of Legends, but it made me smile :)

Gary B Enkelis2 votes

{quoted}

In League games, just like in real life, I keep my mouth shut most of the time. They say, "You can't be quoted on what you don't say."

There have been times when I've been mean to the enemy team but only to degrade their morale. Psychological warfare is how I saw it. Then someone on the Boards pointed out that that was a violation of the Summoner's Code so I stopped.

But I say a little amount of toxicity can be beneficial at least to the extent that the toxicity points out the seriousness of the situation. For example I work in maintenance and construction during the summers and I was once using a saw incorrectly and my boss started yelling at me, "STOP WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE DOING YOU DUMBASS MOTHERFUCKER OR YOU'LL CUT YOUR FUCKING FINGERS OFF!!"

I still have all my fingers and I've gotten very good at using a saw safely since then, I tell you what. I realize a loss in a game of League is not equal to a loss of fingers but my point is that some toxicity should be permitted as long as its to "whip a player into shape" as it were while not attacking the player themselves.

Yeah but your boss wasn't being toxic if they had your wellbeing in mind. How many flamers have their team mate in mind? I'd guess it's usually more selfish. I mean maybe your boss doesn't want to get in trouble if there is an accident (selfish?). Maybe flamers aren't being selfish too.

RobTheTank1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but your boss wasn't being toxic if they had your wellbeing in mind.

This is EXACTLY what I'm getting at. Outside of my work, he would have been considered toxic but in that particular environment his toxicity was permitted.

"GET THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR BASE UNTIL WE HAVE BARON OR THEY'LL KICK YOUR SORRY, ARROGANT ASS IN HALF A SECOND!!" might be a League equivalent.

Gary B Enkelis2 votes

{quoted}

This is EXACTLY what I'm getting at. Outside of my work, he would have been considered toxic but in that particular environment his toxicity was permitted.

"GET THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR BASE UNTIL WE HAVE BARON OR THEY'LL KICK YOUR SORRY, ARROGANT ASS IN HALF A SECOND!!" might be a League equivalent.

And that kind of language I think is tolerated.

Check out the picture for this one and tell me if it fits: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player#h2q2

"2) DO NOT REPORT A SUMMONER FOR USING STRONG BUT NON-DEROGATORY TERMS TO EMPHASIZE AN EVENT IN THE GAME"

Actually I really don't know.

There's a difference between shotcalling, like "back back back" and putdowns like "you suck".

Well maybe calling them arrogant is pushing the envelope....

I don't know.

RobTheTank1 votes

"2) DO NOT REPORT A SUMMONER FOR USING STRONG BUT NON-DEROGATORY TERMS TO EMPHASIZE AN EVENT IN THE GAME"

Actually I really don't know.

I think this is a little different. Gangplank 's example is about something that already happened. They ****ed him harder than the Demacian Navy. What I'm talking about is using strong yet non-derogatory language to prevent a future bad event from happening in the game.

For example I once played with a new League player. He was playing Annie in jungle because his friends told him he was "a good jungler." The Annie went right for the big golems and got to half health in a matter of seconds. I kept pinging her to fall back. I even said in the in-game chat, "you can't kill them." Well Annie didn't listen to me and sure enough she died. The other players called Annie an idiot and I told them to shut up; she was a new player.

I tried to introduce my lifelong friend from Germany to the game. It was Co-Op vs. Beginner A.I. and I explaied to the rest of the team that this was his very first game ever; he was just on my computer. He picked Garen because he looked strong and immediately ran to the enemy turret and attacked it. He died in about 2 or 3 seconds. The other players said "LOL" but they also said, "Didn't you explain to him how turrets work hahahaha?!?!" I didn't report any of them.

I think what it comes down to is constructive criticism vs. attacking a player themselves. I think some toxicity is necessary and useful AS LONG AS its intended to make a player better and not make them feel worse.

Gary B Enkelis2 votes

{quoted}

I think this is a little different. Gangplank 's example is about something that already happened. They ****ed him harder than the Demacian Navy. What I'm talking about is using strong yet non-derogatory language to prevent a future bad event from happening in the game.

Yeah that's just talking about the game. It doesn't have to be personal I hope. You know like what does making fun of someone's mom have to do with the next step in the game?

I think I've been wrong about something and need to adjust my opinion.

RobTheTank2 votes

Like I said I keep my mouth shut most of the time in the game. In case anyone's wondering why I talk here, its because on the Boards I can really think and explain and articulate what I mean without the pressure of the in-game events themselves.

My guiding principle has been that if I need to be toxic for whatever reason, I keep the language within the game events and environment itself.

Ellis McPickle3 votes

The problem with the current system is there is no feedback. Sure, you can report players and once in a while a screen will pop up saying someone got punished but in reality you never know what the punishment was or who is was. It feels like the report button is mostly worthless, while at the same time you can get banned yourself for talking, because people are so sensitive now.

UnbeatablePlayer2 votes

I agree with you about the escalation system being flawed. My first account ever received a permanent ban after I said fuck you to someone and made sarcastic remarks that wouldn't have gotten me punished without that single game of me saying fuck you.

Davarril2 votes

Unsportsmanlike conduct IS a reportable offense.

You can't whine about the rules when YOU broke them yourself.

Astôlfo2 votes

The downside of a Tribunal-esque system is how widely biased the system can get. It can be both intentional and unintentional. Or it can be just a troll who doesn't actually think before clicking some answer to anything/everything (all 'pass'/all 'fail'/random choices/etc).

Intentional can fall under either the troll thing as I said or someone who intentionally finds it funny to either flag innocents or let guilties pass, or anything else of that nature.

Unintentional can be literally almost anything. Just waking up and not having had enough sleep or being cranky or something having gone less than optimal in real life can all affect decisions, and this sort of relation has been proved with hard data and experiments multiple times (not just for the Tribunal, but in general, with a judge/criminal sort of experiment).

Because of this, I don't think human decision is really reliable outside of official Rioters on either mistaken bans (actually mistaken error bans which are extremely rare) or on manually upgrading the bans to a permanent or such or explaining their decisions, etcetera.

Mister Punches2 votes

Depends on which part of the community I'm asked to describe.

The forum community is a mix bag for me. There's a lot of good people (in terms of personality), and a lot of bad people (the toxic people). However, it's relatively a 50/50, where I see about an equal amount of good people and bad people in the forums. Though, at peak hours, I notice that there are slightly more people who I view as bad people online (based off of community interaction, like flaming others or making fun of someone). There are some people who do end up being helpful, and then there are some genuinely nice people who I would share a discussion with over coffee or tea. I'm a bit glad that those kind of people do make up half of the forum community, but I'm still concerned that at least half of the community is definitely the kind of people I would easily avoid irl.

The ingame community, I see a LOT more bad people than good people. I can say this very easily without hesitation. The ingame community is much worse than the Call of Duty community by a long shot, because people take this game far too seriously, even in fun game modes like ARAM. I'm seriously disgusted by how toxic the community has gotten since 2011, when I first joined. I've spent more time getting flamed at and seeing others insult each other rather than actual gameplay where people don't type out their rage. The ingame community is easily worse than the Call of Duty community, and the Battlefield community, and this is on Normals. In ranked, I tend to mute everyone because I immediately assume that everyone is toxic (especially where I started out this season, in Bronze), due to the conditioning that I have received in Normals. These are the people who represent the community, imo. They are also the reason for why many people outside of League think that the League community is one of the worst gaming communities to ever exist.

Long story short, I feel that the ingame community overall needs a lot of attitude improvement. People easily throw around insults like homophobia, racism, and even making fun of physical and mental disabilities in the ingame community. In the forum community, I could easily see there being room for improvement when it comes to attitude, but the forum community is significantly much more tolerable than the ingame community. I'd like to see more of the forum community attitude ingame.

gottrjr1 votes

{quoted}

http://i.imgur.com/Y2Tadof.jpg

I check this sub-board on a daily basis; sometimes, it's a Miscellaneous day where I just feel like posting casually, and other times, I'll sit down and type out a few responses to some threads here. But regardless of whether I post in PBM that day or not, I read through a good number of threads and I empathize with the points that a lot of players make.

Right now, I'm at a weird place, and here are a few of my thoughts:

  1. While the Tribunal was active, Summoners were able to review cases by reading the entire chat logs of a player (enemies, allies, and reportee alike). There was context, and perhaps a bit of leniency with manual review by peers. Albeit, the system was flawed and abused by a few and was often slow to react, but I think most people had positive perceptions of the Tribunal.
  2. I can't shake the feeling that there's a shift in what acceptable behavior looks like. I might be completely wrong about this, and this may simply because the bounds of where the system stands on certain behaviors is ambiguous, but I think there's an atmosphere for some players where they're too afraid to talk, for fear of being flagged by the Instant Feedback system. While trash talking isn't the most respectful or good mannered thing to do, I personally don't think that it would be worthy of a permanent suspension through the escalation process.

I see where Riot is coming from. Mutual respect between players isn't the most unreasonable thing to ask for. In a medium where anonymity spawns toxicity through a lack of fear of repercussions, Riot is forging a new path in combating these negative tendencies.

These are my thoughts. I'm here as an Arbiter to facilitate and foster discussions about Player Behavior & Moderation, and a good majority of the time, I'll speak in the context of the existing Player Behavior and Reform systems; but today, I want to gauge where the you stand and read your sentiments on the changes over the past two years.

What are your personal opinions on the current environment in the game? What are your thoughts on the existing Player Behavior and Reform systems, such as Instant Feedback, Positive Play Rewards, etc? What is your idea of the IDEAL Player Behavior & Reform system? Feel free to drop any additional questions or comments that you have. I'll do my best to read all of the comments, and respond where it's appropriate for me to step in. [Post 2/2 coming at a later time]

Thanks much, Wuks

These are my two problems with RIOT and what makes me toxic.

  1. Riot has some fucked up matchmaking so that if a decent player duo q's with a complete noob they tend to be on a team with decent players.
  2. Noob from #1 feeds like fuck, 0/12, and the duo doesnt want to FF.

Makes me motherfucking toxic crazy!!!!!!

Gary B Enkelis2 votes

{quoted}

These are my two problems with RIOT and what makes me toxic.

  1. Riot has some fucked up matchmaking so that if a decent player duo q's with a complete noob they tend to be on a team with decent players.
  2. Noob from #1 feeds like fuck, 0/12, and the duo doesnt want to FF.

Makes me motherfucking toxic crazy!!!!!!

You make yourself Toxic. Blaming Riot and others for your emotions is bogus and you may learn that when you grow up a little. Actually maybe I am wrong. Sorry. I have some growing up to do. My response is in anger and it's not your fault I cannot control my emotions. A baby does not control their emotions. An adult controls their emotions.

I don't know. Sorry for picking on you, I guess.

gottrjr1 votes

{quoted}

You make yourself Toxic. Blaming Riot and others for your emotions is bogus and you may learn that when you grow up a little. Actually maybe I am wrong. Sorry. I have some growing up to do. My response is in anger and it's not your fault I cannot control my emotions. A baby does not control their emotions. An adult controls their emotions.

I don't know. Sorry for picking on you, I guess.

It's because they do not have any common courtesy to FF and it's fucking rude.

Gary B Enkelis1 votes

{quoted}

It's because they do not have any common courtesy to FF and it's fucking rude.

Not everyone wants to FF and it's not rude. What is rude is to bash their vote. But I'm probably doing the same as you by responding.

scazzman6 votes

civility aside. i would agree that there are times where refusing to surrender CAN be considered negative if someon is not only losing, but also being scapegoated or trolled and being ganged up on by 2 or more players on the team, the player has 2 choices. stay continue to take the abuse, or afk. and get punished. and the longer the player is forced to stay. the harder it may be to contain thier frustration and not say something that gets them reported anyway

Torgaz1 votes

It is that point where the Mute and Farm mentality should be adopted.

scazzman3 votes

you mute said player who is deliberatly trying to get a rise out of you. GREAT. now that they realize you are no longer typing back to them. they recognize they have been muted, and proceed to ping spam your champion, and run up your lane stealing farm and intentionally feeding

Sylas Dr3gb0urn33 votes

{quoted}

you mute said player who is deliberatly trying to get a rise out of you. GREAT. now that they realize you are no longer typing back to them. they recognize they have been muted, and proceed to ping spam your champion, and run up your lane stealing farm and intentionally feeding

Then they were toxic to begin with, and THEY and THEIR GAME and THEIR ACCOUNT is LOST already.

Perception is in the eye/mind of the beholder, and if you do not like what you perceive, mute, and proceed to the nearest enemy nexus with caution and skill, and enjoy YOUR GAME, avoid correcting your allies misinterpretation and/or misunderstanding of the events that THEY perceived, if they are toxic, THEY and THEIR GAME are lost already, anything you say in an attempt to be productive, will actually be counterproductive, and further communication with them is ill advised for your own sanity and account safety, if they are not toxic, they will get over it when you mute them, leaving you free to focus on your contribution to the TEAM MATCH and YOUR GAME.

scazzman3 votes

reporting them after the game doesnt chage the fact you're basically in a cage match with them until the game is over

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