Riot should take into account more factors during the banning process

Zoah Sitri·Aug 22, 2016·4 votes·1,059 views

I hope Riot realizes how hard they baby their players and that the majority of players only report because of personal hatred for the other player through either bad play or good play on the other team. Also take into account that some players play more than others so somebody else could have been toxic for 20% of their games but play 1/10th as much as I do while I'm toxic 2% of my games and I get perma banned without being told that the previous chat restriction was a precursor of being permanently banned, and that other player is not be banned yet because the system doesn't take into account for percentages or how many years I've played. I believe that these are flaws in the system and Riot should take into account with the whole banning system.

34 Comments

Kei143Aug 22, 20164 votes

its dependent on your recent games only. Not lifetime games. That 2% really doesn't matter.

Why would it depend on lifetime games anyways. You are causing mishaps now, so you get punished now.

Zoah SitriAug 27, 20161 votes

You must have misunderstood me... re read then reply

Kei143Aug 27, 20161 votes

No, i understood you.

You want them to take in account your past records when considering punishments, which Riot does already.

Lets say you and another player play 25 games and it takes 3 games of constant toxicity to get you punished.

If you were toxic every 10 games, on your 5th, 15th and 25th game, you actually won't get punished. However, if the other player is toxic on the 23rd, 24th and 25th game, then he won't be punished. Both scenarios have 3/25 toxic games, but the frequency it happens is more important for handing a punishment.

I think that is fair as if you were committing the crime now, it should only be right you get punished now.

Not to say that if you kept the trend of being toxic every 10 games won't get you punished, but you probably will get punished in the 75th game or something like that. In this case, you have played more games than the other player and had a lower toxicity ratio, but you still exhibited a habit of being toxic over a period of time.

Colgate GatorAug 22, 20163 votes

And people should take into account that their actions have consequences, but we don't live in a perfect world.

RedTaoAug 22, 20161 votes

Mine apperantly dont. Why else would Riot threaten to permaban me for my behavior for 7 months and still not do anything?

AraMoOseAug 22, 20161 votes

Citation needed.

RedTaoAug 22, 20161 votes

http://prnt.sc/c93kzk

There you go. Dated recently, 7 months after my tempban and that my behavior is just as bad/worse than it was before and they do nothing.

AraMoOseAug 22, 20161 votes

Yeah, no. I wont be clicking on your weird link. Thanks anyways.

RedTaoAug 22, 20161 votes

Its a link to a screenshot... It goes to lightshot website with my screenshot of one of my tickets with Templar Iytsuna showing that my behavior sucks and that they wont do anything.

The citation is there. Either you can look at it yourself or you can take my word at it. That's up to you. I've given you the tools to see it yourself, i cant make you use them.

scazzmanAug 22, 20161 votes

its a screenshot of a support ticket. apparently hes actually telling the truth

RedTaoAug 22, 20161 votes

Thank you. Im sorry if it was an inconvenience for you.

If you want a summary of the tickets, I've been asking them for months why they reformed me when my behavior was worse than it was before. Templar Iytsuna has been the only person who seems to actually think I've gotten better, but the logs speak for themselves. So when I ask for him/her to prove it, they close the ticket and close any further tickets asking for proof that I deserve my reformed status.

In short, they don't know why they reformed me, but the thing they said about "As time goes on, your placement in the punishment tiers goes down" was a flat out lie. Templar Iytsuna shows this in his/her comment.

scazzmanAug 22, 20161 votes

reading that comment however. it looks like you misinterpreted that. they arent so much threatening you with a permaban so much as not giving you a straight answer. odds are you're probably back at the 10 game chat ban tier and don't even know it

RedTaoAug 22, 20161 votes

I would never know. I've had people like Wobbly Jibbler, Agent Spoopy, and several others all say that it doesn't matter, my next punishment is permaban. If my place is down to that tier, tell me then. I want to buy skins, I want to actually have fun again. I'm not doing this because I WANT to be toxic. I just want to actually have fun with the game. Why would they have to keep saying that I'm going to be permabanned when im down the punishment tier? What's the point in saying that you go down punishment tiers when all they're going to say is that next punishment is permaban? This does nothing to actually help me become a better player. I have no guidance, no wiggle room to change anything in my behavior because of this. Im forced to do nothing but figuratively self mutilate myself and apoligize for everything because i'm only being told that the next punishment is permaban. I can't change anything in my behavior since this has been the only behavior that got ANY positive recognition from Riot.

But I digress, lets assume you're right and my placement actually went down a tier or 2. What did it fix by saying im going to be permabanned?

I'm still self-mutilating myself for these players who love to tell me how much I suck and go kill myself, i'm still apoligizing for everything regardless if it's my fault. Is this POSITIVE behavior? In your honest opinion, do you want to play with someone like me knowing that this is all I say in game? I wouldn't. I hate myself because of this. I have to willingly p**s off people with this because this is the only thing that's safe for me to say.

But saying that I'm going to be permabanned regardless of how much time that goes by is apperantly their idea of promoting good behavior. Look at how good I am now. I do nothing but say that I suck, should go kill myself and apoligize for everything. I'm now the face of what Riot considers a Positive player.

scazzmanAug 22, 20161 votes

I just simply dont type unless people ignore pings. And mute everyone. Theres an actual command for ut now. /mute all

RedTaoAug 22, 20161 votes

I want to mute everyone, I really do. The issue is that you can look at boards and see that people are getting banned without having to say anything at all.

From my experience talking with Riot they're a "Perception is reality" kind of group. Sadly most, if not all, people in this community are the same. If someone's crap, then everyone else thinks they're intentionally trolling/feeding. Perception takes higher stand than actual fact. It's traditional far left thinking in which peoples feelings have higher value than the facts of the matter. If everyone in chat is saying you're a feeder, dont do what they tell you to and say all the things that make you a horrible person without you having to do a single thing, this is where Riot applies their "Perception is reality" goggles.

"Huh, all their team is saying the same things about this person, so it has to be true. Why else would they all say the same thing about this person if they were lying"

That's my only reason why I don't all mute people in game in a nutshell. At least if I verbally abuse myself and apoligize for everything in chat, Riot has something to look at and say "Hey, he feels bad about his bad ability and is apoligizing for it. So maybe it's not just him"

scazzmanAug 23, 20161 votes

it was likely an unsportsmanlike conduct report and they were caught feeding or trolling "still gives logs even if no chat", or thier toxic chat was in pregame/postgame

RedTaoAug 23, 20161 votes

You're missing my point. You dont have to say anything to get banned. Even if I dont say anything, Riot/Community will assume what they want. At least by saying something, if I'm to be banned, I can debate it by showing that what they're saying about me is not matching what I'm saying in game. At least with this, I have something I can use to defend myself. (Even if Riot wont listen)

o Maui oAug 23, 20162 votes

You have to do something wrong to get banned. Verbal abuse/offensive language is one of several things that can get your account punished. It is not, and should not, be the only thing that can get your account punished.

RedTaoAug 23, 20161 votes

I've done something to warrent it. Every day for the past 7 months I've been doing the exact same thing I did to warrent my temp-ban and they do nothing. They wont ban me, they wont tell me why, they wont tell me what they want to see from me and all I do these days is "ruin" peoples experiences. Everything I say is offensive to everyone, every game I play shows this. Riot knows it, the community keeps saying it, so I've already fulfilled the requirements to be permabanned... But they dont do it. I don't know why, they just dont.

If you believe that you need to say something verbally abusive/offensive to be punished, then this rule does not apply to me. Riot makes this clear every day they decide to overlook my atrocious behavior. So while I could mute people, Riot doesn't care what I say anymore. They just let me continue to ruin peoples games with my constant negative retoric and continue to upset the playerbase.

ModPrandineAug 22, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zoah Sitri,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=tNX6JEQA,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-22T17:38:29.490+0000)

I hope Riot realizes how hard they baby their players and that the majority of players only report because of personal hatred for the other player through either bad play or good play on the other team.

If by "babying" you mean actually holding their players accountable for their own behaviors then yes they are babying their players. Otherwise no they're not. Reports only trigger a review of the player in question, but if that player has done nothing wrong then they won't be punished and the report will be thrown out and deemed as a false report.

Also take into account that some players play more than others

And? What's your point here?

so somebody else could have been toxic for 20% of their games but play 1/10th as much as I do while I'm toxic 2% of my games and I get perma banned without being told that the previous chat restriction was a precursor of being permanently banned,

I find this hard to believe. Besides, a 2-week ban is the final warning you get before being permabanned (they tell you this in the Reform Card), so if you're being permabanned it's because you repeatedly ignored the warnings given to you in the form of at least 35-games worth of chat restrictions+a 2 week ban as well. If you were excessively toxic then it's possible that you were escalated to a permabanned status right away, but only Riot knows that for sure, not us.

and that other player is not be banned yet because the system doesn't take into account for percentages or how many years I've played.

They'll have their own case if they continue to act up and be valid reported, but regardless though someone else acting up and behaving poorly will never give you a free pass on exhibiting the same poor behavior as well. From Understanding the Tribunal:

4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned??? a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.

I believe that these are flaws in the system and Riot should take into account with the whole banning system.

Yes the system isn't perfect, nor will it ever be perfect for that matter, and improvements can always be made to make it better. However, as it stands the current 4-strike system in place does its job well enough. Now if you would like to actually discuss your ban then post your Reform Card here in its entirety.

Zoah SitriAug 26, 20161 votes

I was banned over a year ago for a week(maybe 2 years). Are there not resets, like I've been told? What is a reform card? I know that I've had chat restrictions but I think that I would have noticed a perma ban warning.

ModPrandineAug 26, 2016

[{quoted}](name=Zoah Sitri,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=tNX6JEQA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-08-26T17:34:48.158+0000)

I was banned over a year ago for a week(maybe 2 years). Are there not resets, like I've been told? What is a reform card? I know that I've had chat restrictions but I think that I would have noticed a perma ban warning.

Punishments are done in tiers now on a 4-strike system:

Strike1: 10-game chat restriction. Strike2: 25-game chat restriction. Strike3: 2-week ban. Strike4: Permanent Ban.

It is possible to drop down a tier by showing enough of a reformation effort (~3 months worth give or take), but it is also possible to skip tiers altogether if the behavior is deemed bad enough (i.e. death threats, racist comments, gameplay trolling, etc.). As for a Reform Card, whenever you get a punishment you are sent an email of your Reform Card that shows your punishment and an example of the kind of behavior that got you punished. The email will only contain one game, but if you log into the actual game client itself, that will have up to three. To find out more about it, check here: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/205097293-In-Client-Reform-Cards-FAQ#q8

Zoah SitriAug 27, 20161 votes

I'm already pretty much over the perma-ban issue, already made a new account and I have refused to swear or put people down. This has helped my behavior but I'll forever miss my exclusive content on that account... Thanks for the info

WolfChasesAug 22, 20162 votes

And riot should take into account the players interaction. If someone is flaming me without a single reason, simply because he decided to troll and be annoying and I answer him with flame after his 10th flame I should not be banned or warned at all. Even tho this is somehow a sport, no one should test your nerves just like that.

I literally had a Lee Sin in enemy team few days ago who got killed by my team mate during a gank and he said "I wish your mom dies of cancer" I was stunned, no one from both teams flamed before that, he told him that he wishes him that his mom dies of cancer just because he died in game and I bet that guy didn't even got banned.

I am not a flamer, playing lol since 2012 if I remember well, maybe 2013 and I literally never said even "GG Easy" I only got chat restricted once year ago or maybe 2 years ago when I played with my friend and we were making fun, not in terms of gameplay, we played normally but we ere kinda "Fake Toxic" to everyone and we both got restricted :D :D But I know a lot of guys who literally defended themselves and got restricted, permanently or temporary.

BlueThingamajigAug 23, 20161 votes

Mute, report, and move on. It's the little speech bubble next to a player when you hit 'Tab'.

Also, with regards to "defending themselves", the most effective way to defend oneself is to mute (and then report, and then move on).

WolfChasesAug 23, 20161 votes

I agree, but I don't like mute button that much since I am a jungler and I have to be informed about everything.

BlueThingamajigAug 23, 20162 votes

If a player is flaming you 10 times, they aren't giving you anything useful about the game. On the contrary, listening that player is objectively interfering with your ability to play and be informed because you let yourself be tilted. Mute, report, and move on.

DEKInwAug 22, 20161 votes

i also think that score should be considered into play when determining punishment. theres a big difference in a 16 2 6 adc telling a 0 10 2 flamer to stfu then just a random unprovoked STFU NOOB

Gary B EnkelisAug 22, 20162 votes

I think it's the same. Flame is flame. I don't know.

ModPrandineAug 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

i also think that score should be considered into play when determining punishment. theres a big difference in a 16 2 6 adc telling a 0 10 2 flamer to stfu then just a random unprovoked STFU NOOB

Score is irrelevant when it comes to behavioral punishments. The only time score really matters is for trolling/intentional feeding cases. You could be 10/0/2 but still get punished because you decided to be a verbally abusive jerk.

o Maui oAug 23, 20163 votes

No, having a good performance doesn't give you the right to be a jerk.

AstôlfoAug 22, 20161 votes

Why? It's working just fine, from what I see here.

TotalwanabeAug 22, 20161 votes

like a straight perm ban to anyone calling someone a troll that would create a massive exodus of new account

GodKing ThumperAug 22, 20161 votes

I hope that you realize just how small of a percentage of players ever get a punishment, let alone the small fraction of the punished players that get a permaban. :)