Boards›Player Behavior

Allow Us to Flag Spite Reports

SirPurrr··12 votes·1,074 views

There is a problem with toxicity but also a problem with another form of abuse, false reports. Riot has no one analyzing the veracity of reports, it's just an automated system that evaluated report frequency, checks chat for basic trigger words and has little intelligence. There is no Tribunal anymore. Even quoting toxic players can flag it.. You are at the mercy of the system and false reports, while usually weighted less from those frequently abusing the feature, still have some weighting.

Of course, ideally there would be something like Tribunal where impartial peers can evaluate the evidence in more complicated cases. However, in the mean time, I wish there was some way to flag a report as "contest" and have it investigated more deeply. I've found many toxic players spite reporting when they get the report notification. It's gotten so bad that I actually have to wait for them to leave the room before I report them. I'm guessing they know who it is by comments such as "I've muted you so please only use pings." or "Please worry about your own lane and just let me play."

Some people might think that now everyone will try to contest every report but many are incontestable anyway by using certain racist or homophobic terms. Furthermore, I think most players realize when they're toxic and have no chance for a contest to be successful. I'm pretty sure the player typing "open mid, gg, afk - report bot" has no qualms about breaking the rules.

Another way to tackle this is to punish people for rageports so they don't distract the system from the real problem players. I don't think there is any realistic consequence to false reporting right now (beyond report weighting getting lowered eventually). The problem is that by the time a report from this player is worthless, he may have already tipped the scales to punish someone who was overall not a problem. Moreover, some players don't consistently make false reports so their overall report weighting might still be pretty normal.

12 Comments

Dwith4 votes

according to dr lyte the reports wont be valid anyways and reduce their report impact for incorrectly reporting (but we all know thats bullshit)

DJColdCutz2 votes

This here.. They claim to care enough about this issue, saying it's punishable by having the weight of their future reports dropped. But even if they do actually do that (which I really, really doubt they waste their time doing that...), it's still basically nothing.

The people abusing the reporting system aren't trying to get people banned, they're just trying to make you get the automatic pop up warning as a final form of harassment. So if they don't care if you do or don't get banned when they falsely report you, how will reducing the effectiveness of their future reports stop them from abusing the system in the future? It won't, because they didn't care about it in the first place.

Additionally, threatening to lower the weight of an abuser's reports when there's no way to even see how your reports are weighed in the first place is pointless. They can still report with lowered weights, and we only get alerts that our reports did something if our reports are the ones that triggered the ban, so for all anyone knows, everything is completely normal. I regularly report toxicity, and I've only seen the holy grail "your report did something!" message once in like 4 years of playing.

There's no reason for someone to change their behavior with the current system rito has.

Tract4 votes

You are actually not at the mercy of false reports, a Rioter reads the logs before punishment.

SirPurrr7 votes

{quoted}

You are actually not at the mercy of false reports, a Rioter reads the logs before punishment.

That's naive and simply 100% false. This is the most popular game in the world with millions of players and plenty of reports. I guarantee that no Rioter is reading your logs before a punishment. We all want to believe in justice and fairness but the only practical way for a human to read them is by leveraging the community with something like Tribunal. Riot, despite their wealth, doesn't have a huge personnel and nor would they invest massive resources to do this because it's simply not scalable.

Besides the logical arguments for why this can't be true, there is clear evidence that it isn't based on the immediacy of punishments. You can get reported in a game and be punished within seconds of it ending and the offending logs being sent. It's not as if Riot has a spy in every game just waiting to sift through all the meaningless chat in the hopes of catching a toxic player. It's automated and far from perfect. For example, it can't understand sarcasm and that's probably why they only send your own chat without context.

Tract2 votes

Where is your backing behind this? Because I know for a personal fact that they read the logs if the player is flagged enough. Every single 14 day or permanent ban has the logs read in close detail before the punishment is issued. There are around .013% of the players who actually need a 14 day or permanent punishment, and league has roughly 12 million players. That's around 156k players over the several years that LoL has been open. I would love to see your evidence behind this "naive and simply 100% false", other than it looks that way to you. Because it is perfectly scale-able and it doesn't take a ton of time to see toxicity scrolling through a log file. Please take your pessimism elsewhere.

ModUlanopo1 votes

This is not true. Obvious cases are handled automatically. Cases that are close are manually reviewed.

SirPurrr4 votes

You don't need any evidence beyond the facts I gave you because there is only one rational conclusion. LoL doesn't have 12 million players, it has nearly 30 million on a DAILY basis. It's a trivial numbers problem with an inescapable conclusion, although you don't seem receptive to it. The statistic you give is pretty meaningless because the only way to come to it is by trusting Riot's own system and not some independent verification. This is why scientific studies have controls. You can't have your evidence for a claim come from the source under dispute.

This isn't about pessimism, it's simply logic and numbers supported by evidence. I gave you plenty of proof but you want to live in a fantasy land despite what you claim being physically impossible for a company of Riot's size as well as a poor use of resources in order to maximize profits (and yes Riot is a business first). This is not a utopia and it's a very flawed system. I doubt you read any of the links offered to you because if you did, there is ample evidence for my claims. For example, if (as in the link), a player gets an immediate 14-day suspension after a game, how has Riot read those logs in the 10 seconds after the game has ended? Unless you think there's a Rioter studying the chat during every game, it's clear that this was automated.

Still, 14 day bans are different from typical chat restrictions and this has the theoretical potential to be reviewed by a human but it is clearly not always (as in the case given). For lighter punishments like chat restrictions, it's definitely not being read by a human. Riot wants people to trust the system or it would make players uneasy but a lot of the statements and statistics can be very artificial. For example, if I have a human looking at 1 in 10 suspension cases for a few seconds, it technically has human review but makes little difference to the quality of the system. I will only debate this further with you once you've read the links provided in their entirety.

ModUlanopo2 votes

Except, of course, that poor reporting accomplishes nothing except to reduce the value of their reports to the point of meaninglessness. Three years ago, before the behavior systems upgrades, the failure rate was less than 0.5%. One can only imagine how low it is now.

KingWanahakalugi1 votes

Dwith is right after false reports a summoners reports begin to carry less weight as someone who reports honestly.

Krovvy Britva1 votes

OK I don't want to be that guy, but something needs to be done about troll players before a match starts. most of the time a team knows that there is a troll on there team but don't want to dodge due to the Lp loss. so maybe if you set up a way that all players can report a person before the match begins and if 4 people on you team report that person then they are kicked out of ranked play to be reviewed and everyone else put back into que. It just seems unfair that good players have to deal with this. I've been a victim of it in a few matches lately and am tired of not being able to climb due to one or multiple people trolling on a team

LaughingStapler1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Krovvy Britva,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sLYxLWbe,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-01-12T23:31:37.036+0000)

OK I don't want to be that guy, but something needs to be done about troll players before a match starts. most of the time a team knows that there is a troll on there team but don't want to dodge due to the Lp loss. so maybe if you set up a way that all players can report a person before the match begins and if 4 people on you team report that person then they are kicked out of ranked play to be reviewed and everyone else put back into que. It just seems unfair that good players have to deal with this. I've been a victim of it in a few matches lately and am tired of not being able to climb due to one or multiple people trolling on a team

The new champ select should reduce this.

Krovvy Britva1 votes

I don't think it will. a troll will do anything to be annoying. with the new champ select they will just ban out who you want.

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