Boards›Player Behavior

Easy Way to End Toxicity, Trolls, Negative Players, Ragers

XDolemiteX··3 votes·1,068 views

It is quite easy actually and I cannot understand why Riot has not instituted this yet. The Tribunal system although had good intentions but is really lacking in any effective changes. How to fix? Easy, Riot hire some game monitors who can take immediate action against players who intentionally feed, make insulting sexual harassing comments nonstop and generally make it a unpleasant experience to play.. Spend some money on trained, live people who can randomly monitor games and the people who create countless accounts to create mischief should go down substantially.

It is very easy to do, because once players realize that the game may be monitored, their behavior should change. It is a risk I know, but may be a risk worth taking. You sometimes wait a very long time in que now and to get in a game with a person who starts out with watch me feed ROFL etc is very disheartening. Makes you not want to play and I love this game when it works correctly.

Who can object but the people who want to cause the mischief....

22 Comments

Sarutobi5 votes

It's good, but do you honestly think they can hire just a "couple" people to do this? Heck I'm sure they already have something like this implemented. It would be physically impossible to track every single match being played, heck I doubt even a group of 10 people could track half the games being played in a day.

But it would be a nice help, because at the very least they could track down very serious problems in the game and catch it in and take actions right then and there! But again this would take too much man power. I would say minimal 50-100 people working on this which I doubt Riot has the funds to do unless they take some serious budget cuts!

Erdrik2 votes

{quoted}

... heck I doubt even a group of 10 people could track half the games being played in a day.

Dude, 10 couldn't track 1/10th of the games being played in a day. We're talking about a player base in the multiple tens of millions.

And he wants those monitors to track the games live. [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Zerfallen1 votes

Which is exactly why Riot implemented the current system :3

XDolemiteX1 votes

I get your point. But you would not have to monitor every game. Why doesn't the average person commit crimes even when desperate? Because of the possibility of getting caught. More than likely they would not get caught but the possibility with the associated consequences keeps them honest despite the desperation.

Immediate and appropriate action is the best deterrent in the world. They may have multiple tens of millions playing but I find myself playing with the same people over and over. Many whom I have reported and blocked for extremely toxic verbal abuse and/or game play I find myself on the same team again.

Zerfallen3 votes

Are you playing the same people in back to back games?

Erdrik1 votes

{quoted}

... Why doesn't the average person commit crimes even when desperate? Because of the possibility of getting caught. ... ... Immediate and appropriate action is the best deterrent in the world.

That is exactly what this new Instant Feedback System is trying to accomplish.

And Riot employees already manually review cases at random. Its for the sake of checking and ensuring the systems accuracy.

The problem with your idea, is the time spent. It only takes at most 10 or so minutes to review a tribunal case. Monitoring a match could take upwards of an hour for some matches.

They may have multiple tens of millions playing but I find myself playing with the same people over and over. Many whom I have reported and blocked for extremely toxic verbal abuse and/or game play I find myself on the same team again.

That has more to do with when you play and how quickly you requeue for your next match.

Take a 5 minute break after each match and the players in your previous match will end up elsewhere.

XDolemiteX1 votes

I don't know Riots financial situation, lol, but I don't think it would take as many as you think. Generally people play to have fun. It is a small minority of players for various reasons who start problems, just like in real life.

Good advertisement of what you are doing goes a long way. So does say announcing in game, player XXXX is being suspended for toxic behavior. Oh boy I believe behavior would change very quickly. It could also work with intentional feeders etc, who despite clever they think they are, I believe Riot is even more clever if they wanted to be...

Erdrik1 votes

{quoted}

... So does say announcing in game, player XXXX is being suspended for toxic behavior. Oh boy I believe behavior would change very quickly. ...

Oh, yea it would change. It would very likely result in the to be suspended player to:

  • Rage more/ Tilt harder/ Start to troll/Troll harder.
  • Start complaining about the ban to the monitor instead of playing the match.
  • Throw the match.
  • Leave the match.

Announcing the offenders punishment in the middle of the match would almost guarantee that the match gets further ruined for everyone else playing.

RogueWill1 votes

{quoted}

It's good, but do you honestly think they can hire just a "couple" people to do this? Heck I'm sure they already have something like this implemented. It would be physically impossible to track every single match being played, heck I doubt even a group of 10 people could track half the games being played in a day.

But it would be a nice help, because at the very least they could track down very serious problems in the game and catch it in and take actions right then and there! But again this would take too much man power. I would say minimal 50-100 people working on this which I doubt Riot has the funds to do unless they take some serious budget cuts!

Actually is pretty doable if you go and hire cheap (and by cheap I mean basically free) help. A few other games I have played had similar concept implemented. They allowed players to post as moderators (after passing a writing test, a videochat interview and a small course) which had the power of temporally ban players(they would submit a report with each ban) (remember the word temporary so this moderators wouldn't just abuse power). If a player get certain amount of temporal bans within some time frame then the case will pass to an actual employee and the case will be fully reviewed. The players will get in return some power and in some cases some freebies or some kind of exclusive moderator icon. The moderators would also have tiers (according on time they have been moderators) which give them more allocated temporary bans. ( I think they started with 10 bans per month and could upgrade to unlimited after successfully being a moderator for a year or so)

By implementing something like that then you reduce the number of employees drastically

Sarutobi1 votes

{quoted}

Actually is pretty doable if you go and hire cheap (and by cheap I mean basically free) help. A few other games I have played had similar concept implemented. They allowed players to post as moderators (after passing a writing test, a videochat interview and a small course) which had the power of temporally ban players(they would submit a report with each ban) (remember the word temporary so this moderators wouldn't just abuse power). If a player get certain amount of temporal bans within some time frame then the case will pass to an actual employee and the case will be fully reviewed. The players will get in return some power and in some cases some freebies or some kind of exclusive moderator icon. The moderators would also have tiers (according on time they have been moderators) which give them more allocated temporary bans. ( I think they started with 10 bans per month and could upgrade to unlimited after successfully being a moderator for a year or so)

By implementing something like that then you reduce the number of employees drastically

And to be really honest do you really expect in this day and age for people to work like this for free? We live in an era where people are demanding $15/hour. People arent going to be jumping to work here for free especially since the job at hand is basically something anyone can do. But then again like you said there would need to be interviews, testing, etc. All of which cost time and money to actually make even before actually getting the job at hand. And even then they would need to hire a lot of people to even try and make a dent with the amount of active matches being played daily.

RogueWill1 votes

{quoted}

And to be really honest do you really expect in this day and age for people to work like this for free? We live in an era where people are demanding $15/hour. People arent going to be jumping to work here for free especially since the job at hand is basically something anyone can do. But then again like you said there would need to be interviews, testing, etc. All of which cost time and money to actually make even before actually getting the job at hand. And even then they would need to hire a lot of people to even try and make a dent with the amount of active matches being played daily.

First, is not free, is just no cost or little cost to riot. Players acting as moderators get freebies, skins or a few chest would do the trick to keep the players interested. Remember that the PBE is basically a job to be a bug tester and yet there is a big demand of people to be part of it (even though in essence is a job). So yeah I'm positive that people will jump into that for free, also keep in account that this system was already on place on the previous game I was playing and it was way more work that what I'm describing for them (weekly reports, ban reports, a certain amount of actives games within a week, and a certain amount of hours online, plus a monthly forum with a real employee and a bunch of other moderators, honor code as they were not allowed to swear, and a certain number of "Honor Crest"which could only be awarded by other players that are not and has not been on your friends list for the last 30 days. ) The "wages" of the moderators was paid in game credits (aka freebies). So this system attracts a lot of people with lots of free times but not necessary money (aka students) and is people that normally don't spend much RP on their own anyway so it wouldn't affect riot as much economically.

As for the people needed to d the interview and testing etc, that people is already working at riot. The testing can easily be achieved by a timed multiple question type test, get a base of questions and add a cool down time to retake the test if failed and viola no more employees needed to keep track of that. The course is basically the same, time software so really the only extra people would be the one doing the interviews which could be 10 or so at the beginning and 1 or so after the system is in place (per server) since the first two test should filter a bunch of candidates. As for the people fully reviewing the cases, riot already has those employees on the current tribunal system so is just re using the same people, in fact their job woudl be easier since they would get more stuff filtered since the moderators woudl have to submit a report with each ban and not one sentence they would have to go through the whole game chat to find.

SmokedAlmonds4 votes

I mean it would certainly be nice. It is completely impractical, though. There are millions of people playing this game. How many games are being played at this very moment? How many employees would it take to monitor them? Even if they weren't in every game and only called in by live reports during the game, how many game monitors do you think it would take?

Of course a ref is a good idea, but the scale of the game makes that impractical, if not impossible.

Neveyah The Lost3 votes

Honestly, anyone who doesn't think this is a good idea is most likely one of the players in danger of being banned if this actually gets done.

theArtifacts2 votes

Although a good theory there are too many games to monitor and they already have the policy that a single slip-up isn't punishable. So for each toxic person they would have to ensure they're monitoring at least 3+ games. That's anywhere from 60 minutes to 90+ minutes to get a single punishment out. Doesn't make for a wise expenditure of revenue.

XDolemiteX1 votes

Good point. But maybe a single slip up that involves nonstop toxic behavior the whole game should be immediately punished with a 5 to 7 day ban. You start hitting people with those and the word will get out. I am not expert but I believe the behavior would change in many players very quickly if they know someone may be watching and they will possibly be suspended for several days because of it.

The one's who are really toxic, would become worse of course with a new email account. But then they would be easier to detect with reports by players for extreme toxic rage behavior....I think...

theArtifacts1 votes

{quoted}

Good point. But maybe a single slip up that involves nonstop toxic behavior the whole game should be immediately punished with a 5 to 7 day ban. You start hitting people with those and the word will get out. I am not expert but I believe the behavior would change in many players very quickly if they know someone may be watching and they will possibly be suspended for several days because of it.

The one's who are really toxic, would become worse of course with a new email account. But then they would be easier to detect with reports by players for extreme toxic rage behavior....I think...

If they were going to do that they wouldn't need a person - the automated system could handle it. You're talking more about a policy change than an enforcement change.

XDolemiteX1 votes

Well I would leave that up to riot but as great as automation is good for mass production etc, nothing beats a human being. At least so far in terms of interpretation of behavior that a machine system working on simple algorithms cannot fathom.

Erdrik1 votes

{quoted}

... I am not expert but I believe ...

Admitting to not being an expert, shows the kind of humility and wisdom that suggests you are willing to accept the words of those who are experts.

Like maybe someone with a PhD in Cognitive Neuroscience and a Master's degree in Cognitive Psychology?

XDolemiteX1 votes

Understood. But the problem with "experts" can be that they believe that they never make mistakes and are often afraid to take changes and try new things. That is what an engineer is good at if you get my drift. Experts are wrong all the time. Wall Street experts go broke every day.

Since I am not an "expert" I can see things from different perspectives. Like how would a player be complaining to a monitor if they are already banned? My person belief is that the majority of people who would object to this kind of a system are the one's who think they a really good nice people but go around doing passive aggressive behaviors and aggressive behaviors in games.

You talk of an increase in raging etc, but that is already occurring. If it did not work, they could always go back to what they are doing now. That's how new ideas work.

Erdrik3 votes

{quoted}

Understood. But the problem with "experts" can be that they believe that they never make mistakes and are often afraid to take changes and try new things.

Incorrect. That is a stigma associated with experts, due to some experts acting that way. Anyone is capable of believing they never make mistakes, regardless of their status as experts.

That is what an engineer is good at if you get my drift. Experts are wrong all the time. Wall Street experts go broke every day.

That doesn't revoke their status as experts, or make their input less valuable. A failed expert still has access to more knowledge and experience than you.

... Like how would a player be complaining to a monitor if they are already banned?

!!! Wait are you actually suggesting the offender is immediately ejected from the match when the monitor passes judgement?!?

My person belief is that the majority of people who would object to this kind of a system are the one's who think they a really good nice people but go around doing passive aggressive behaviors and aggressive behaviors in games.

"If you don't like my idea, then you are a part of the problem."

This is the very "Self Perceived Perfection" problem you are claiming experts suffer from. Don't make assumptions about other people, just because they don't agree with you.

... If it did not work, they could always go back to what they are doing now. That's how new ideas work.

No, what you are describing is "Development of Infrastructure". Idea's are purely headspace. To test if an idea works requires spending time and money to actualy build the idea. Anything short of that is just theory crafting.

  • Pay to build the infrastructure the new employees will work in.
  • Pay to build the infrastructure the new employees will use to do their jobs.
  • Pay to build the infrastructure necessary to track whether or not all this effort is even working.
  • Pay to train the new employees.
  • Pay the employees once they are trained.
  • Spend a sufficient amount of time testing to ensure the data gathered is accurate enough to justify the cost of doing all this in the first place. (which means paying for everything above this point some more for the duration of the testing)
  • All while paying to maintain the system they have already, so they can go back to it if this new one fails.
XDolemiteX1 votes

You are assuming a lot of things about Riot THAT unless you are an employee makes it hard to take at face value. How do you know what infrastructure Riot has? How do you know what would they would have to build? Where are you getting your expert information about what goes on behind the scenes at Riot?

Just for perspective, have you ever had action taken against you by riot? You know chat bans etc?

Erdrik1 votes

{quoted}

You are assuming a lot of things about Riot THAT unless you are an employee makes it hard to take at face value.

Those points are not requirements specific to Riot. They are requirements specific to the idea you have presented. Those things need to happen in order for your idea to become a reality. Regardless of which company tries to do it.

How do you know what infrastructure Riot has? How do you know what would they would have to build? Where are you getting your expert information about what goes on behind the scenes at Riot?

I never claimed to know how many of these points Riot already has access to. Only that they needed to be done.

Which isn't even relevant because this entire line of discussion was born from your statement that:

If it did not work, they could always go back to what they are doing now. That's how new ideas work.

My whole point is thats not how new ideas work. Thats not even what new ideas are. Testing new ideas require you actually build the thing so you can test it.

Just for perspective, have you ever had action taken against you by riot? You know chat bans etc?

I don't really see what that has to do with this discussion. But no, to the best of my recollection I have not been punished by Riot's behavioral systems. But I have been playing(off and on) since season 1 or 2 so its kinda hard to recall.

More from Player Behavior

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
Player Behavior1,525 comments
1,086
votes
Riot should add monthly status cards
Player Behavior241 comments
843
votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes

More by XDolemiteX

I receive Chat Ban for this????
Player Behavior6 comments
1
votes