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Riot's hypocrisy, neglectfulness.... and their salvation.

Chønklord··2 votes·1,216 views

So I've been keeping tabs the past few days on the forums after seeing all the innocent (and I'm sure many guilty) people hit by the latest ban wave, and just started to see people rejoicing because their unjust permabans were actually reviewed again by Riot support staff and lifted.

I'm glad to see that Riot actually listens and cares about individual players in the community... but this should also be a lesson/warning for them. Perhaps it's time they start to invest some more personnel and money into the support staff that reviews and adjudicates these permaban (3rd party scripting) cases, because even one innocent person permanently banned is one too many.

It's interesting to see their hypocrisy in the copy-pasta replies everyone gets with essentially the line of > "We have reviewed your case and found 100% clear evidence of 3rd party software, the decision is final"

...and then you have this:

> "We are writing to let you know that we’ve done some additional case review, and your account was incorrectly identified as having violated the League of Legends’ Terms of Use. As such, we will be lifting your permanent suspension".

It's extremely hypocritical to the point of neglectful customer service, to tout one of your tools/software/services (what have you) as -- quoted by Riot Tantrum -- "very, very, very... accurate", and then turn around and realize your detection software just erroneously flagged DOZENS of innocent players -- EVEN AFTER A 'MANUAL REVIEW'.

It took countless hours over the course of days from these players repeatedly petitioning the forums and re-instating support tickets non-stop to finally get SOMEONE in Riot to actually, literally review the cases and lo and behold, there apparently was a mistake with some of the bans (although we'll never know what that was).

Their saving grace as a company is that they did, in fact, start to remove the false bans and restore people's accounts, and a little bit of faith in the people that work at Riot, however; they need to start being more factual in their claims and more "human" in their initial support interactions with their customer base.

19 Comments

Fluffertons Fury2 votes

It was a completely awful experience. I understand a firm stance must be taken against cheaters, but holy shit man 5 days without an account and the hopes of ever getting it back looking bleaker and bleaker, all the while it just seemed like riot was taunting us with their responses when we knew we did absolutely nothing wrong. I even recall one guy quoting a ticket from player support that basically said, we've done all we're going to do go post it on reddit.

I applaud them for correcting the problem. I'm not sure how many people were effected nor how many people got their accounts back. Hopefully everyone who was genuinely innocent was pardoned. You're absolutely right though, one person is one too many especially given the current state of player support. I still feel somewhat cheated. After all of it we just get a simple, oops our bad lol. Some sort of compensation would have suited, an IP boost, some RP, a mystery skin, anything. Bottom line though, I have my account back and that's all that's important at this point.

Edit: Turns out I was actually given 5 Hextech boxes.

Squarepusher1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Samurai Dan,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=px6uEejE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-15T05:46:50.506+0000)

It was a completely awful experience. I understand a firm stance must be taken against cheaters, but holy shit man 5 days without an account and the hopes of ever getting it back looking bleaker and bleaker, all the while it just seemed like riot was taunting us with their responses when we knew we did absolutely nothing wrong. I even recall one guy quoting a ticket from player support that basically said, we've done all we're going to do go post it on reddit.

I applaud them for correcting the problem. I'm not sure how many people were effected nor how many people got their accounts back. Hopefully everyone who was genuinely innocent was pardoned. You're absolutely right though, one person is one too many especially given the current state of player support. I still feel somewhat cheated. After all of it we just get a simple, oops our bad lol. Some sort of compensation would have suited, an IP boost, some RP, a mystery skin, anything. Bottom line though, I have my account back and that's all that's important at this point.

yup, this is textbook how to ruin customer experience and driver customers away.

Magical Player2 votes

1 Review sees the case-judgement= ban 2nd reviewer higher on the food chain is called in as many begin claiming bans are wrong, riot being a good company listens Riot begins reviewing the cases 2nd reviewer in their judgement states case is not valid, account reinstated

Neither reviewer is at fault if they did their job correctly

Issues can occur as they modifier their system. The question becomes if found innocent- should that party be entitled to some form of compensation In my views, sure some ip can be assigned but its not really needed

Chønklord3 votes

You're missing the point -- they clearly did not do their job correctly the first time since these people were innocent and still banned after multiple back and forth emails begging riot support for help. They stood by their judgement 100%.... until someone else actually looked into the situation.

It took these many people posting on the forums, reddit, and continuously emailing support on behalf of their own accounts for Riot to actually TRY to do something. Imagine if everyone was as complacent as you seem to be (and many others here that are Riot company apologists), and we just shrugged and went "Eh, Riot says the system is 'very, very, very accurate', so they can do no wrong, they are 100% right and these people deserve the ban. They can't prove they weren't cheating, anyways!"

If no one said anything or made a big stink on the forums, Riot would have just continued on their merry way without actually RE 'reviewing' their cases and we'd have a lot of innocent people losing their accounts.

Ask yourself the question; how would you feel if you were in their shoes and no one believed you (including Riot, whom would basically just say 'you're banned, we're right, you're wrong)? You'd feel very helpless, is the answer.

Magical Player2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=px6uEejE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-02-15T06:51:21.260+0000)

You're missing the point -- they clearly did not do their job correctly the first time since these people were innocent and still banned after multiple back and forth emails begging riot support for help. They stood by their judgement 100%.... until someone else actually looked into the situation.

It took these many people posting on the forums, reddit, and continuously emailing support on behalf of their own accounts for Riot to actually TRY to do something. Imagine if everyone was as complacent as you seem to be (and many others here that are Riot company apologists), and we just shrugged and went "Eh, Riot says the system is 'very, very, very accurate', so they can do no wrong, they are 100% right and these people deserve the ban. They can't prove they weren't cheating, anyways!"

If no one said anything or made a big stink on the forums, Riot would have just continued on their merry way without actually RE 'reviewing' their cases and we'd have a lot of innocent people losing their accounts.

Ask yourself the question; how would you feel if you were in their shoes and no one believed you (including Riot, whom would basically just say 'you're banned, we're right, you're wrong)? You'd feel very helpless, is the answer.

zzzz, you answered how you felt about the given situation...... I disagree with you Would it suck to be banned for false reasons? Sure, would I feel helpless? I'm going to say no. I'd be in the same position as everyone else who decided to keep the matters between their account and riot between those 2 parties.

The louder you yell does not make you right, neither does ignoring others opinions. If/when riot posts a statement about the issue that caused all these(handful of ) accounts to be wrongly punished, will be the day this is resolved.

I'd like to ask where your magical time machine is, that allows you to review the history of this event people have claimed to be falsely banned since riot began banning people

Why is it hard to imagine riot actually does the job they say they will. You request additional reviewing of your account, riot does it, you don't get desired response, riot will do it again. With another rioter reviewing it.

Until riot openly states why you were banned, the exact reason to why. The software that triggered the ban, you have to accept riots judgement to do their job.

Call me what you want, but please avoid labeling others under the same category. I am a special snowflake you see, I am the only complacent one around here.

"Riot says their system is very, very accurate" note the not 100% flawless, riot accepts errors will occur but without fail of the accounts banned for 3rd party software are for a majority true bans

As to you're point about me missing the point.

"2nd reviewer higher on the food chain is called in as many begin claiming bans are wrong, riot being a good company listens Riot begins reviewing the cases" Right there is where I address that, I acknowledged exactly what you said

Chønklord3 votes

The louder you yell does not make you right, neither does ignoring others opinions. If/when riot posts a statement about the issue that caused all these(handful of ) accounts to be wrongly punished, will be the day this is resolved.

I never said that; I said (TL;DR) Riot needs to do a better job with their 3rd party software permabanning team and how they deal with customers that are falsely banned. Right now the system is "You are wrong we are right and we're not going to change our minds" mentality.... UNTIL they realize they gone messed up.

but without fail of the accounts banned for 3rd party software are for a majority true bans

Again like I said, even one innocent person banned is one too many. Of course no system is perfect, and that's why there are actual real human people involved in the final decision making process, which leads back to my post about their tendency to be hypocritical in practically almost every case stating their permabans are "thoroughly reviewed and found to be correct"... except in this instance many were not (and apparently historically there was another time they messed up on a ban wave, too).

Why is it hard to imagine riot actually does the job they say they will. You request additional reviewing of your account, riot does it, you don't get desired response, riot will do it again. With another rioter reviewing it.

There's a difference between "doing a job" and making sure you "do the job accurately". Clearly at the onset of these false positives and permabans being handed out, they were STILL not reversed even after multiple e-mails from the innocent parties (people have come here and posted numerous conversations they had with Riot's support staff over the course of DAYS, with the same copy-paste messages of "we will not reverse the ban").

The point I am making is that they DID review it... and re-review it... and still came up with the answer to everyone that told them they were innocent.... Until they realized they DID screw people over accidentally. My point is it took THIS LONG, and these many people raising their voices in unison to be acknowledged. If they had not, it is very likely Riot would not have actually gone and investigated more thoroughly their system for the flaw(s).

Keeping a company and its employees accountable to the consumer is always a good and welcome thing. Not sure why you're trying to minimize the incident.

Tr1ppSek1 votes

I completely agree with you Boosted! I was one of those wrongfully banned accounts that was reversed. They didn't do their job. I had to go through 3 different support staff. That's 3 different tickets over the span of a week and even still the last guy said I'm still banned. Then I randomly get a "oops, our bad" email. I am thankful someone finally listened but it shouldn't of taken 3 people and a week of posting for that to happen. And saying it was just a "handful" of players I think is crap. I think they messed up big time and wrongfully banned A LOT of people and I think those people wouldn't let it go... that's what made riot take another look and why we got our accounts back.

Magical Player3 votes

" Keeping a company and its employees accountable to the consumer is always a good and welcome thing. Not sure why you're trying to minimize the incident."

Riot bans 99% accuracy 1% goes awry and now all the hate falls on the company, for 1 % The numbers are made up as riot doesn't state it but come on you're telling me a handful of people were punished and unpunished so we should raise hell over it??????

We keep the company accountable, by directly supporting the game......

Chønklord1 votes

Why do you keep painting this issue as black and white? It's a lot of grey.

No one said to raise hell, no one said to hate Riot.

Just keep them accountable.

FurriesAreHot2 votes

If you get banned, you are lucky to get your account back for any reason. Compensation is getting your account back.

Chønklord2 votes

No one is talking about compensation in this post; we are discussing keeping Riot accountable for their (in)actions at the time.

Sarutobi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=px6uEejE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-02-15T08:49:29.695+0000)

No one is talking about compensation in this post; we are discussing keeping Riot accountable for their (in)actions at the time.

And they are by unbanning the account. You basically want Riot to be some sort of perfect machine and that isn't right. Like we all stated while this was happening people need to give them time to work it out. Sercurity is probably their number one priority. When the banning happens the only thing I seen from people was that the system was flawed and that ever single account should have been unban. That's the main problem. We all know nothing is 100%. Anyone who says so is ignorant. To believe every single account affected by this was innocent. Not one person said that every single one was gulity.but people wanted Riot to basically give back every single account and then sort out the problem which makes no sense!

Tr1ppSek1 votes

Jump off Riots **** dude. I've been watching you post on people's ban posts constantly just defending Riot in their in"just" bans saying they don't ban fair players. Now you are defending them saying "oh... they aren't a perfect machine." Jump off em for two seconds and let them clean themselves off.

Sarutobi1 votes

{quoted}

Jump off Riots **** dude. I've been watching you post on people's ban posts constantly just defending Riot in their in"just" bans saying they don't ban fair players. Now you are defending them saying "oh... they aren't a perfect machine." Jump off em for two seconds and let them clean themselves off.

Lol except I've always been saying that. Show me any posit if me claiming otherwise? Again you just want them to be perfect or be too easy then once hackers come into the game you'll bitch and moan that Riot doesn't do their job. People like you want too much from one person/company.

Chønklord1 votes

No; we want Riot to adhere to certain standards just like any other company. If they're going to take such a hardline stance with their Terms of Service, they better damn well make sure they don't ruin an innocent player's account. People invest a lot of time and money into this game, and just like any other product/service, you have to provide top tier customer support if you're going to do things like permaban people from their accounts.

Chønklord1 votes

You're making a strawman argument and trying to paint things in clear-cut black and white; that's not how life works and not how this situation works.

Yes systems are flawed, and is not 100% -- that's EXACTLY the reason why we as consumers and players need to hold Riot accountable when they do mess up like this. As I stated before, even ONE innocent person being permanently banned from their account, is one too many.

Also no one said to give back every single account and "sort it out later" -- it's called doing your job thoroughly and re-evaluating and assessing each case down to the smallest detail, which they finally did... AFTER the community made their voices heard.

Tr1ppSek1 votes

Amen!

EvilDustMan1 votes

If it were the other way around, people would be bitching about the obvious scripting problem and why isn't Riot taking care of it, the answer is obvious.

Look at Feeder Buster. It's tuned down and doesn't catch everyone. People complain. If it were tuned higher, people would Bitch about false positives.

Trusting the unwashed board masses isn't exactly a reliable source of information.

Chønklord1 votes

People ARE bitching about scripters and botters currently, doesn't change the fact of the issues Riot faces.

You're not contributing anything to the conversation.

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