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A very long thread about toxicity in league of legends.

Docoroth·12/18/2019, 10:42:24 PM·3 votes·4,622 views

Lets be honest guys, us as a community, we all hate each other. hell people are still even trying to argue that the "0.3%" banned players thing is real! and not wrong! when, statistics say, 0.3% of league players is like, 18 thousand, and, with over, 80 million accounts, i 100% doubt that only 18 thousand have been banned. But anyway, that's part of the problem, we fight, we fight, but we don't actually care whats good for the game. And in my opinion, banning people over, and over, and over, and over again, isnt fixing toxicity, in fact its probably making it worse, because those players just make a new low level account and since riot has no idea how to mix level 3-30 normal mmr into ranked mmr, they ended up dumping all level 30 accounts in gold 4 level elo, like really? you couldn't even put them in top 50%? like gold 4 is top 30% at least. put them all at like silver 3, or something, so good players can actually go 20/1 and carry, rather than vsing people who've been gold for 3 years and know how to not die 20 times. Because honestly when i started ranked on a fresh account, it was a 50/50 coin flip, the level 30 on my team or their team would either be a diamond smurf, or, a person who's BRAND, fresh spanking new to the game. I went 2/7 in promos as a plat+ level player got ace, every game, but every game was ruined due to the enemy team having a 16/1 or me having a 1/11 player. Its horrible. So, how do we fix the issue? this is where it gets controversial. Some people want the point where you could get 500 chat restriction games, which, yes, would fix it, it would make toxic people to talk more, but then people bring up the argument, since they can't vent their anger they could run it down, which is true. They would probably do that. So, i've been thinking long and hard, and thought, what if, instead of making it an 100% automatic BAN system, make it a 100% automatic chat restriction system, that only 2 week - permabans someone if they use harsh slurs and says things you'd deem extremely toxic, calling someone a dog, shouldn't get you permabanned, saying someones bad, shouldn't get you permabanned, threatening someone irl, with dossing and doxing threats, should. Using explicit anger language and racism and sexism, should get you banned, not when your tilted at your 1/10 ezreal adc who doesn't know how to play the game. Being reported 5/20 games, meaning 5 times by 5 people out of 180 people. which is 0.27 should not get you a chat restriction. you should have to be toxic in upwards of 5+% of your games to be chat restricted, not 0.27% of your games. Because i personally play thousands a year. And if you want to punish me for tilting at like, 1% of those 3000 games, which is like 300/3000 by the way, then sure, maybe ill accept it then, but if im tilting 3/100 games, I don't want to be punished, in my eyes that's unfair, and i do believe for most of you it would be too. Im already aware this will get a lot of hate, and, people won't even give it a chance. Please comment on it and give me your thoughts on how riot could help this toxicity problem, especially since the fact they dump every new level 30 into gold 4 mmr <3 id really appreciate more than just my insight on this problem! thank you for reading

6 Comments

K1mo112/19/2019, 12:58:12 AM1 votes

This week i am committed to spoil the new star wars as my christmas gift to these toxic shitlers who have been annoying all year long, should they even start their crying show in chat and game. I know lots of them won't like it too much. So they'd better watch their mouths.

NF Remilia12/19/2019, 4:23:35 AM1 votes

Well , people change after they get their first warning (most of them) some of them dont and get perma. But why people change? Because they know they will lose their account. Imagine an account with lets say 200 skins , all champs , level 100+ and avarage rank ( gold - plat ) do you really think this person want to lose his account and proggres because some1 is mad or bad at the game? No of course not. Thats why they changing. Thats why Riot gives them 3 warnings before the perma ban.

KFCeytron12/19/2019, 8:36:19 PM1 votes

{quoted}

hell people are still even trying to argue that the "0.3%" banned players thing is real! and not wrong! when, statistics say, 0.3% of league players is like, 18 thousand, and, with over, 80 million accounts, i 100% doubt that only 18 thousand have been banned.

Your numbers and your math are wrong. 0.3% of 80m is 240,000, not 18,000. And it's 0.006%, not 0.3%, which would then be 4800.

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banning people over, and over, and over, and over again, isnt fixing toxicity, in fact its probably making it worse, because those players just make a new low level account

The ability to play on a new account doesn't negate the benefits of permabanning toxic players. If every single one of them did that, then it would at least be a minor punishment, taking away their unlocked skins, icons, champs, and so on. Any who don't do that are removed from the game and the problem is solved in at least those instances. Quite frankly, Riot and 99.994% of the playerbase (people without permabans, according to Riot's figures on this, which I see no reason to doubt) don't give one whit for how permabanned players feel about being ejected from the game for consistently appalling behavior. Most permabanned players stop playing the game. It's extremely rare for a permabanned player to be so oblivious and/or unbalanced that they accumulate multiple permabans on a series of accounts. Riot does not have the wherewithal to prevent that except when a highly-visible player (such as a popular streamer) engages in this behavior, in which case they may issue an ID ban (Riot employees manually ban any account that such a player is seen to use).

{quoted}

Some people want the point where you could get 500 chat restriction games, which, yes, would fix it, it would make toxic people to talk more, but then people bring up the argument, since they can't vent their anger they could run it down, which is true. They would probably do that.

There's no "probably." Riot's punishment system used to hand out stacking chat restrictions, such that consistently toxic players basically had a permanent chat restriction. Unfortunately, it turns out that such players used their few chat opportunities to be toxic, and, when they couldn't be as toxic as they wanted to, they resorted to committing non-chat offenses such as griefing (following someone around and taking their farm, using wall abilities to interfere with their play, etc.) or inting. The purpose of the punishment system is to eliminate rule-breaking, not make it worse. Thus, if a couple chat restrictions don't make any difference in a player's misbehavior, the system ramps up the punishments until the player is permabanned and thus unable to use that account to break any more rules ever again.

According to Riot Tantram:

It really breaks down into two categories.

1.) Helping players reform 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost.

We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely.

We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it.

We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling.

The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS.

So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat?

{quoted}

So, i've been thinking long and hard, and thought, what if, instead of making it an 100% automatic BAN system, make it a 100% automatic chat restriction system, that only 2 week - permabans someone if they use harsh slurs and says things you'd deem extremely toxic

How is this different from stacking chat restrictions?

{quoted}

calling someone a dog, shouldn't get you permabanned

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

We work with the overall community and within our own company guidelines to identify what disruptive behavior is and what the consequences for those behaviors should be. We understand that it can be difficult to know where the line is, which is why we provide chat logs and we have a few tiers in the ban process in order to allow for you to learn and grow.

{quoted}

saying someones bad, shouldn't get you permabanned, threatening someone irl, with dossing and doxing threats, should.

It already does. Yay!

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Using explicit anger language and racism and sexism, should get you banned

(...I assume you meant "shouldn't" here...)

{quoted}

not when your tilted at your 1/10 ezreal adc who doesn't know how to play the game. Being reported 5/20 games, meaning 5 times by 5 people out of 180 people. which is 0.27 should not get you a chat restriction. you should have to be toxic in upwards of 5+% of your games to be chat restricted, not 0.27% of your games.

Your math is wrong again. It's 2.7%, not 0.27%.

{quoted}

Because i personally play thousands a year. And if you want to punish me for tilting at like, 1% of those 3000 games, which is like 300/3000 by the way

And again. 1% of 3000 is 30, not 300.

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then sure, maybe ill accept it then, but if im tilting 3/100 games, I don't want to be punished, in my eyes that's unfair, and i do believe for most of you it would be too.

Your opinion of the rules is of zero relevance. When a cop stops you for going 40 in a 25 zone, you can claim "I think the limit should be 45 here" all you want. You're still getting a ticket. If a librarian asks you to keep your voice down while you use the facilities, shouting that libraries should be loud will simply get you escorted out. If you go to a friend's house who insists that you remove your shoes while you're in their home, "that's a stupid rule and I do what I want" will lose you a friend. If you are using someone else's services, facilities, equipment, etc., you abide by their rules or you deal with the consequences. If you think the rules should change, that is a completely different conversation (and I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for your chances at convincing Riot to change their rules to allow behavior like yours).

{quoted}

Im already aware this will get a lot of hate, and, people won't even give it a chance. Please comment on it and give me your thoughts on how riot could help this toxicity problem, especially since the fact they dump every new level 30 into gold 4 mmr <3 id really appreciate more than just my insight on this problem! thank you for reading

The claims and ideas you present are far from new and almost always come from permabanned players who haven't reformed, never will, and want a system that's better at letting them play LoL on their old account rather than a system that's better at keeping the game enjoyable for as many people as possible. That probably accounts for most of the "hate" you may get.

Lemon ViIIain12/23/2019, 7:28:46 AM1 votes

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So, how do we fix the issue?

Don't link warnings/bans to accounts. Issue IP bans. League accounts are too cheap to buy for this to not be the solution.