Does a player based reporting system target players who had bad games?

DaLegendBegins·Apr 10, 2018·1 votes·2,603 views

Are players playing well held to a different standard than those playing poorly when it comes to borderline toxicity?

23 Comments

ChermorgApr 10, 20183 votes

I mean, it's totally up to you. If you feel a player was toxic, you can report. If you don't think they were toxic, you can not report. There's also 8 other players (not including the player in question) who are also all deciding whether to report or not. Chances are if they were actually toxic then at least one player is going to report them - and that's all that matters.

If someone isn't getting reported, then their behavior obviously isn't as much of a detriment as you may think. If a player is affected by their behavior, but "forgets" to report, were they really affected by it to the point that player deserves punishment?

DaLegendBeginsApr 10, 20181 votes

Totally fair, but arent people kinda vindictive and if someone feeds in your game (not int but feeds) you dont think you want to report them more?

ChermorgApr 10, 20181 votes

I don't personally.. but I can see why you may think some people do. But regardless, if the player didn't do anything wrong, they won't get punished even if you report them so..

DaLegendBeginsApr 10, 20181 votes

Assuming the person is toxic, doesnt it then make it more likely that you are reported when you have a bad game? Like the toxic player who is bad gets reported more than the toxic player who is good is really what i guess im trying to get out there. Ofc it's IMO.

ChermorgApr 10, 20181 votes

Assuming the player is toxic, I don't think they deserve to "not get reports", thus I have no sympathy if they happen to be reported because they did poorly. If they weren't toxic, it wouldn't matter.

DaLegendBeginsApr 10, 20181 votes

Yeah but my point is not that those players dont deserve it, it's that riot's system allows good players to be toxic... to an extent obviously.

Sorry I realize my original post didnt explain this well at all.

ChermorgApr 10, 20182 votes

I getcha now. I just don't see any way around that - you can't really monitor all chat because what if someone's dicking around with everyone else in the game - maybe they're being "toxic" technically but if everyone's doing it and they're having fun who cares.

DaLegendBeginsApr 10, 20182 votes

Yeah I mean I'm not talking about the really bad stuff (homophobia, racism, that thing dunkey said about running someone over) It should also be noted that this stuff is often contextual, etc.. if you are trash talking the other team while you're losing your own team may get upset because you are typing while playing badly. So in one game saying "you suck" is okay but the next one it isnt. Creating an inconsistency in what is acceptable.

The issue overall as I see it though is that everyone is not held to the same standard, I understand it's never going to be perfect and I too do not see a way around it. I'm not posting here to tell riot what to do with their game and I have no idea how to fix it. I just dont think it's ever been talked about from what I've seen.

AJStarhikerApr 10, 20181 votes

Not really. It's part of the reason intentionally feeding is harder to detect. First, because Riot doesn't want to issue bans in error, they look for a pattern of poor behavior (in this case inting) before issuing one. Second, because people report bad games, it takes longer to confirm a player is inting rather than having a bad game, since there are more false reports to wade through to find actual inters.

DaLegendBeginsApr 10, 20181 votes

Well I wasn't really talking about inting, I'm talking about people who are being toxic in general. If you are toxic to your teammates but you carry them I find they wont report you, whereas if you are not they will. Does that make sense?

DaLegendBeginsApr 10, 20181 votes

For example lets say you are a Lux in lane with a Jinx who is very bad. You as lux feel that Jinx is bad and say "you suck jinx". If you go 11/0/9 that game you will be less likely to be reported than if you go 0/3/0. Assuming nobody is inting and the player being examined is the lux support, she can be very awful to jinx but if she carries jinx, then she is less likely to be reported despite being negative in chat.

HavokDashApr 10, 20181 votes

Yeah people only seem to care about who has "most kills" They are more than happy to give a pass to people who are blatantly toxic and offensive and they will use the excuse "Stfu troll, >insert champ< carried you" despite that player spending the entire game harrassing, flaming and degrading teammates. Meanwhile if you have a player who si TRYING to win,but just having a bad game (getting caught out etc), the team is more than happy to "Report for inting" despite not knowing the difference between INTENTIONAL FEEDING...and just being outplayed. They dont seem to know or care about the difference. As long as you have double digit kda and can "OP hard carry" you can be as verbally abusive and toxic as you want and this community will give you a free pass for it. But make one mistake and go 0/1 and you will be reported for inting (I even got reported for 'inting" for standing still..Not dying, just stopping movement to respond to something...which is now intentional feeding apparently)

Kei143Apr 10, 20181 votes

The system has the capability to filter out false reports. So no, you wont be punished just by getting reported.

Another tip is that 1 report carries the same weight as 9 reports. All it does is to flag the system to check for toxicity. More or less reports doesn't make someone get punished faster.

Also I don't care how they did in game. Honors and reports are about behavior. If their behavior is u uncalled for , they'll get a report regardless of how they did in game.

DaLegendBeginsApr 10, 20181 votes

My point is about Good players who are toxic getting less reports than bad players. So you can tell people "you suck" but if you carry them they will most likely not report you... hence people playing well are held to a different standard than people playing poorly.

Kei143Apr 10, 20181 votes

hmm ... I don't know about that.

While it's true that if players don't report the person then there will be no review, the standard they are being held to is the same when reviewing. I just takes 1 report to review the case and more reports don't do anything different from a systematic standpoint.

To put it in an easier example to understand, if you brought 10 people into a room and asked them if the lights were turned on, their response will be the same regardless of how many times that question was asked.

If what you are assuming is true (it's not), then it's not a systemic bias, it's a manual community bias.

If you'd like to discuss about why the community has a bias, then lets take the discussion direction to that. But if you say that the system is biased towards them cos they have less reports, then no. The system only starts after the report action, which is a manual action.

DaLegendBeginsApr 10, 20181 votes

Because your language is obviously passive aggressive and frankly a bit snotty, I would say that what I'm assuming is true, and the fact that you think that a player based system doesnt have inherent flaws means you simply havent really considered it. Further evidence you havent thought about this at all is that it's really 4 players unless you're flaming in all chat and often times what is toxic is contextual and shifts from game to game. I'm sorry you want to defend the player based system but I'm not attacking it, I'm bringing up a nuanced point about how people work and why there should be stricter and more consistent rules as to what is reportable and what is not. You say the system only starts after the report action? NO NO NO my point is that the report action is the beginning of the system, you cant leave the general broad categories for humans to interpret. That means that players have to use their own judgement and sometimes what they consider unpleasant is pleasant for others. Furthermore, you dont seem to address the idea that your reports mean less if you submit more especially if they are borderline. If the system requires the report first then the report is part of the system.... I'm not sure how else to get that through to people....

Kei143Apr 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Furthermore, you dont seem to address the idea that your reports mean less if you submit more especially if they are borderline.

Ummm... Riot Tantram has already confirmed that report weighs are no more. You are running on an old paradigm and you'll need to update your information about how the system works.

Mechanically, the system starts after recieving the report. The report itself is a manual action and technically not part of the autpmated system.

If you want to talk reporting habits, then let's talk about it.

I will always report bad behavior regardless of whether they carried or not. That report of mine is enough to flag the system to review his behavior. It doesn't matter if anyone else reported him.

So that's my reporting habit. If you are curious to see what the community's reporting habits are, you can always make post and poll about it.

I think your assumptions of the commuunity's behavior are wrong. Thus you would think that the good toxics would be less likely to be punished.

EDIT: made a post about it. You can view it there. Let the community show us what they think instead of us guessing what they think.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EI8qJ2YH-what-are-your-reporting-habit-poll-inside

DaLegendBeginsApr 11, 20181 votes

The system as i refer to it, again, is the entire system, riot is putting the reporting in the players hands, as for the weighted thing I didnt know that and I'm glad they changed it. And i think the reporting habits are certainly different in different levels of the game. Lets say you take bronze out of it, that's like 30% of players and lets be real, bronze players know little to nothing about the game.

Kei143Apr 11, 20181 votes

strange enough, the higher up you go, the lesser people report.

I've seen streamers just ignore the reports at the end game screen even when someone fully blows up in game. They rather look at their stats, talk about how much dmg they did and interact with their chat, instead of reporting for toxicity.

Maybe they just didn't want to be a snitch on their stream.

DaLegendBeginsApr 11, 20181 votes

The higher you go up? Not as a general trend but some streamers certainly really care. But i'd send you here to prove my point https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/dF1AN4GJ-ranked-when-to-report-for-afk-leaving the more you go up the more people care about the small stuff because you should know better.

Kei143Apr 11, 20181 votes

That's for AFK, which is a total different category of behavioral toxicity and belongs to the gameplay toxicity. Which makes sense, as the higher you go, the more you care about your ranked games and would report for gameplay toxicity.

I find verbal toxicity the opposite, somehow the high ELO streamers don't seem to care too much about the verbal toxicity.