My ideas on how to fix various stressful and behavior issues in the game

Great Muta··2 votes·3,585 views

In Champ select:

Have an option to report.

Offer a survey for dodges so Riot can understand why a user dodged with choices like 1) bad matchup, 2) Suddenly had to leave, 3) Person threatening to troll, 4) Team troll banned my pick to be nasty, etc.

Offer 1 free dodge per so many games or per x days, maybe even a week.

Like Overwatch does, recommend picks or roles that need filled. Some people are so new that they legit don't know off-meta stupid picks won't work.

Offer every player a chance to ban. Riot has mentioned this and will likely implement it.

Make an option where teammates cannot ban each other's picks. This would eliminate troll bans.

Make an alert if a player is trying to ban another's intended pick

In game:

Have mics. It does decrease nastiness and humanizes players.

When a user mutes another user, the mute is permanent and can only be changed when the user manually unmutes them. CSGO does this and it works out great.

Have scaling punishments for DC's/AFK's while also allowing the user to drop tiers in punishments for x games without afk's. CSGO does this.

Offer hextech rewards for x games with no AFK's.

When an AFK occurs, allow users the option to leave the game without punishment or lp loss. DOTA does this already and made it so it's not abused.

Fix the remake system so it actually recognizes AFK's and DC'd players. Extend the time to 5 minutes. DOTA does this.

Offer 15 minute surrenders. Riot mentioned this. Many games I play are clearly over and lead to extra-negativity because people won't surrender to troll and add 20 minutes onto the game or legit just don't know when a game is over.

Install a Mercy rule where the game can be ended even if the surrender vote doesn't go in (due to trolls) once the gold lead is clearly too far unbalanced. Riot has discussed this.

Eliminate DQ or make a system where you can do SQ, DQ or opt in for both. Rocket League has various options to meet these needs with a lot less players.

Look at eliminating all-chat. It's usually just used for bullying, trash talking or report rallying purposes.

Offer users the option to disable chat. Moving it off to the side and muting everyone is just not good enough.

Riot has to give the option to disable pings. Pings can be incredibly annoying when abused.

Post game chat:

Eliminate it. It's useless. It's either trash talking, bragging, rallying for reports or people sending "i love you" letters to and from themselves.

More reporting options and clearer descriptions of each category. This would let players know what is acceptable and what isn't.

As mentioned above, users muted in game stay muted in post-game chat.

Offer more honoring options like "great warder", "unselfish", "smart player", "skilled at x champion" and others. These would create new ribbons/banners on champ select that would promote positive behavior. Being honored multiple times by different players(not just your premade) could also trigger maybe some extra IP or something.

Various fixes to the current punishment system:

The current punishment system is a 4 step process, with no chance to drop down a step for good behavior after so many games. Imagine in soccer if every yellow card added up and after a set amount, the player would be banned forever from soccer. This is what is happening right now. And punishment levels only reset after the season ends. Could this be abused with various players being nice for the set amount of games and then flaming after? Yes, but it would also help a lot of players out.

Riot has to define clearly what is allowed and what isn't allowed. A lot of players think asking for reports is allowed. Despite studying up on the system constantly, I'm not sure if one-off insults/critiques are punishment worthy or if stuff like gg ez is either. A clearly defined dictionary and guide would solve a lot of these questions and would keep people out of trouble.

Riot has to make a hard stance on behavior. The current system allows you leeway and loopholes to ruin games and many people feel that toxic players do not get punished fast enough. Riot cannot be inbetween here. If they are going after this stuff, they have to do it hard, or they might as well not bother.

Riot has to realize that there is nothing they can do to stop a toxic player from playing LOL. Players can make new accounts anytime and even banning by IP won't work due to people playing in public places or having VPN's. I have 3 accounts. You aren't banning me.

Riot has to do something about secondary accounts. Most players above gold seem to have multiple accounts and most of the people I know in the game have multiple accounts. I don't know what they can do about it other accept it. Once I reach my ranked goal, there is little reason for me not to get on to another account.

It is clear that Riot does not have the resources to go after every incident. However, they have 100 million players. Bringing back the tribunal would ease up some of the load. If just 1% helped with that, I think a lot of issues could be solved.

Riot has to stop stacking different types of reports together. Negative Attitude Reports should not stack with Verbal Abuse reports for flaggings and punishments. These are two seperate categories and combining them together makes it easier to get people in trouble.

Riot has to realize that the game creates stressful situations where users feel they have no control. I do not feel Riot understands this.

Blind pick has to go. It begs for people to get angry and create trouble in champ select.

Riot advertises and promotes off-meta picking with their various "will it work?" videos on the client. They have to stop this. It gives people motivation to try these things in ranked and leads to many of the situations above. If you pick something stupid in my games, I'm going to end up reporting you for negative attitude and if it fails, I'm going to also report you for feeding.

Riot has to consider making a "for fun" mode and a "serious" mode. There is a big divide between playing serious and playing for fun, even in ranked games, and Riot needs to make this more clear. Fun players don't want serious players ruining their fun and serious players don't want fun players ruining their progress.

Riot has to understand that bogus reports do work. The current system flags games when you are reported and after so many flags, you get punished. If you have 3 games in a row and say Games 1 and 2 were legit report worthy, but the 3rd game was a bogus report, the 3rd game will still trigger a punishment, even if it's wrong. Riot will justify it with "well you had bad behavior in the previous two games" and they are right, but the 3rd game should not be counted if it is bogus.

Riot has to clarify how many games they go back to justify player bans. Does it stop just at the 3 flagged games in the chat log? Or do they go further back? We don't know and this would be helpful to know.

Riot has to understand that asking for reports is effective. If you ask for reports, you have 8 chances to get someone reported, as opposed to not asking for reports. While Riot has said that reports don't stack and multiple reports for one game don't count, asking 8 people to report a player gives you a better chance of getting them reported at least once.

Riot has to understand that most of the time, the reporting system is used in revenge. People aren't reporting people to make Riot aware of what happened. They are reporting as a form of revenge to get them for their behavior. This should not be acceptable behavior and completely undermines the purpose of reports.

Riot has to understand that telling players "to mute and report" is just not the solution for everything for various reasons.

Riot has to clarify how report weight works. I could justify reporting most of the people in my games if I wanted to, but it would also likely make me lose report weight. Does a player like this not deserve to have his report counted? If I'm consistently reporting people, even if it's legit bad behavior, my report weight will go down and toxic players may escape.

If you are going to downvote me, which I expect because I am going against a lot of standard fare in this forum, I would like you to respond. I would like serious discussion on the issues raised.

31 Comments

OneMustFall3 votes

Further more, people will always be able to play what they want. If the day comes where people have to follow what the meta is, they will leave the game. Just because you can't wrap your head around what people are playing doesn't give you the right to tell people to only play champions you're comfortable with.

Do you think people want to play with someone who whines about meta? No, it just shows they only play what they have seen, rather than explore new possibilities, which makes for a boring game. Half of the fun in League and pretty much any game is expanding your horizons and figuring out new stuff. No one wants to play in your world where they HAVE to play something that is popular. If you're toxic towards off-meta players, you should be banned. That's all.

Great Muta1 votes

That's where "fun mode" and "serious mode" would come into play. You can do your off meta things with other people who feel the same way. And the serious people can pick the best picks to win the game.

OneMustFall3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pNE9Gnm8,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-10-12T19:53:31.338+0000)

That's where "fun mode" and "serious mode" would come into play. You can do your off meta things with other people who feel the same way. And the serious people can pick the best picks to win the game.

And what is the solution to the insane queue times that occur from this split? And how does Riot enforce SERIOUS mode? Does it come out with a list of what champions can play exactly in each role? Does it prevent you from locking in stuff like Urgot ADC? I'm totally fine with this as I'd rather not play with meta whores who don't understand the game and I'd imagine the "fun" mode queue times would be much shorter than the serious mode.

The problem is waste of resources. Riot is not going to waste resources into splitting Ranked into two separate queues where one (Serious) will have insane queue times. Even people who don't generally play off-meta stuff will play in the "Fun" queue because no one likes being restricted on what they can play.

Great Muta1 votes

League has a 100 million players. Games like CSGO have a fraction of that and it's about the same wait time.

And how does Riot enforce SERIOUS mode?

Troll picking could become a reportable option but yes it would be hard to enforce it, but things are already hard to enforce.

I would 100% play in serious mode.

Hambone20133 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pNE9Gnm8,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-12T20:29:44.575+0000)

League has a 100 million players. Games like CSGO have a fraction of that and it's about the same wait time.

Troll picking could become a reportable option but yes it would be hard to enforce it, but things are already hard to enforce.

I would 100% play in serious mode.

And who decides what a troll pick is? At one point trundle support would have been considered but it became meta. Tank ekko or fizz the same.

Great Muta1 votes

Would be harder to catch, but there's obvious things like Darius ADC and Soraka Jungle that are clearly riskier than they are worth.

scazzman1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pNE9Gnm8,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-13T00:32:33.356+0000)

Would be harder to catch, but there's obvious things like Darius ADC and Soraka Jungle that are clearly riskier than they are worth.

i've played Soraka summoner 11 in normals and kicked a LeeSin 's ass before

XinZhao2WinNhao2 votes

Post game chat allows you to confront a bully over their behavior without having it disrupt the game.

Also as an off meta picker I disagree with your opinion on off meta.

Great Muta2 votes

Do we want confrontation?

What is going to come out of that:

  1. You bullied me and I'm going to report you and ask for your report.

  2. Person who is bullying continues to bully and asks for your report.

Both parties lose there.

Hambone20132 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pNE9Gnm8,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-10-12T19:03:06.972+0000)

Do we want confrontation?

What is going to come out of that:

  1. You bullied me and I'm going to report you and ask for your report.

  2. Person who is bullying continues to bully and asks for your report.

Both parties lose there.

Conversely you know how the system works mute the offending party report them you self and move on. No report begging needed

Great Muta1 votes

Mutes are lifted in post game chat, which is the problem.

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

Yes, it's helpful to let the bully know what they did is wrong at the post game chat so that you don't disturb everyone else but still let them know it's wrong to bully people. The reason why there are so many "why was I banned" threads is because plenty of them literally don't know what they're doing is wrong.

Also if you've been harassed all game I'd understand it if you just needed to let out a bit of steam tbh.

Great Muta1 votes

So the way to solve toxicity is to give players a shot at being more toxic? Sorry, but your argument makes no sense.

XinZhao2WinNhao2 votes

To solve toxicity in game (where people aren't allowed to just leave), give a place for players to vent their frustration without bothering other people - as people are free to leave the post game chat if they want.

It's like many forums have many serious forum topics that are heavily moderated for content quality, and then a "trash can" forum where people can just post bullshit. That way "trash can" threads don't go into the serious forums.

BeeCuz1 votes

TL;DR: Lots on punishment and declarative assertions of acceptable behavior. When there are thousands of people playing, anything that can be done will be done.

If there is some undesirable scenario playing out in a substantial portion of the games played, that can be considered a bug in the system.

The best way I know of to debug that type of problem is to examine the motivations that create them, and alter the environment so that more desirable motivations take precedence.

Great Muta1 votes

It had to be this long unfortunately. I debate with people all the time on here about it and we always go into various "what if?" scenarios.

I'm an all in or all out person on the punishment stuff. The best rules are the most specific ones and the worst ones are the ones that are open to interpretation.

If there is some undesirable scenario playing out in a substantial portion of the games played, that can be considered a bug in the system.

Agreed

The best way I know of to debug that type of problem is to examine the motivations that create them, and alter the environment so that more desirable motivations take precedence.

Sounds good to me

OneMustFall1 votes

CSGO's ban system is awful. You can get a 7 day ban for getting kicked or kicking a player too much. Come back after a week and D/C one game and you're done for another 7 days. If you're going to copy a game's system for dealing with toxic players and AFKs, copy Dota.

XinZhao2WinNhao2 votes

Dota's system isn't that good either. You can get false report all the time for being bad at the game. Also you can be reported for communication abuse if people just don't like the language you're speaking. I know people who have been muted for speaking Russian even though they didn't do anything wrong. They don't even verify whether reports are legit or fake.

Honestly I think that we just need a completely new system that hasn't been seen in any game, because honestly all the player behavior systems that I've seen in games really kinda suck.

No Yellow Norco1 votes

Compared to League, are there more or less players trolling matches (like int feed) in DoTA?

XinZhao2WinNhao2 votes

Int feed - league has more AFK - dota has more Toxic chat in normals - dota has more Toxic chat in ranked/mmr - both have equal amount Racism - dota has more Players wanting to surrender/giving up too easily - league has more Passive aggressiveness - league has more

But that's not all that should define a punishment system. For example, false positives are worse than false negatives because punishing innocent people is more wrong. And dota 2 system has plenty of false positives since the reports aren't screened for accuracy. Also in dota 2 it seems that players who play poorly get reported more than actual abusive players.

Great Muta1 votes

Dota has more racism because they have mics in my opinion. It's harder to be racist in League because there are no mics. Mics hint you as to what color a person is or where they came from, making for easier insults.

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

I agree partially with that that mics do contribute to the problem.

However, on the other hand, I think that the dota 2 community is more racist anyways regardless of mic. the harassers there just throw a random racist insult even if you're not from the country that they are insulting. For example I have seen a Chinese friend get called a "Russian troll".

Also other problems Dota 2 has more toxicity in normals, more meta sheep and more AFKs.

But you were suggesting that League should have mics. Don't you think that by your own admission having mics would make toxicity even worse?

Great Muta1 votes

How would you know if someone is ___ race unless their name, lack of english or accent is? That's why you don't see it in League, but on the other hand, you miss out on callouts, what people are thinking, where they are going and when they are going in.

CSGO has less toxicity issues due to having mics. If I'm getting abused, I mute them and then it's done. In League, mute's expire. But I also know why people are doing things and what their tone is. You have to guess tone in League and when it comes to critiques vs just being toxic, it makes a difference.

OneMustFall2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pNE9Gnm8,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-12T20:17:53.033+0000)

How would you know if someone is ___ race unless their name, lack of english or accent is? That's why you don't see it in League, but on the other hand, you miss out on callouts, what people are thinking, where they are going and when they are going in.

CSGO has less toxicity issues due to having mics. If I'm getting abused, I mute them and then it's done. In League, mute's expire. But I also know why people are doing things and what their tone is. You have to guess tone in League and when it comes to critiques vs just being toxic, it makes a difference.

CSGO doesn't have less toxicity issues. There's just a lot more rage quitters in CSGO than in LOL. League keeps toxic players who would normally rage quit in the game because they're afraid of being banned so instead of leaving, they take their anger out on other players.

Great Muta1 votes

If you are abusive to me in CSGO, I mute you and it's done with. If I mute you in League, it's just the end of Round 1.

League keeps toxic players who would normally rage quit in the game because they're afraid of being banned so instead of leaving, they take their anger out on other players.

100% agree. I've gotten in the most trouble over games that were over and the team wouldn't surrender, at some points with them doing it on purpose to spite me.

If you keep me in a game I don't want to be in, I'm going to flame, I'm not going to do my best and it's going to end up as a bad experience for everyone.

XinZhao2WinNhao1 votes

First of all, CSGO is very toxic. Even more toxic than Dota and League.

Second of all racism is a very large problem in dota. It's not about the mic. If you play bad (or if the harasser just doesn't like you for some reason), dota 2 trolls will call you a Russian or Peruvian regardless of where you're actually from. The racism in dota 2 is literally the only reason why I still play League, and sadly, the dota 2 player behavior system isn't working on fixing the problem. As I said, dota 2's punishment system sucks because theres nobody screening the reports to see if punishment needs to be escalated for harsher offenses such as racism.

Man In Sky1 votes

Get downvoted

Great Muta1 votes

Reported. Enjoy.

nerak231 votes

xXWukong360Elite

So Friend, at least teach me how you took a quote of mine from a different section and post on GD.?

Not that I don't like it here, it's where I started I just like to know the trick :) Want to teach me...Friend me :)

Bídoof1 votes

I liked most of your ideas until you got to "problems with the behavior system" where you just started talking nonsense

Great Muta1 votes

Feel free to let me know what you think is nonsense.

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