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BM'ing enemies during a game is good, agree or disagree

y0r1ck·3/31/2019, 7:16:36 PM·2 votes·2,408 views

First of all, let's talk about the difference between harassment and BM, it's an important distinction to make for my argument. BM is to gloat/put down players in an effort to get in their heads. Harassment is just BM that goes too far. Where do we draw the line? I draw it at repetitive, targeted, and unwnanted BM.

One thing to point out is that all harassment is BM, but not all BM is harassment.

Here's an example of BM. "Uninstall, loser"

It'd be harassment if it or something similar is repeated after someone makes clear they don't want to engage in that way

Now that I've got that out of the way, I'll try to explain why BM is good. It increases the stakes of the game temporarily and thus people try harder to win, and provides a common enemy for the team to unite against. In a ranked game, you've got 20 lp on the line, but when someone calls you or your teammate a loser it's personal. Now you're trying to win for LP, and to shut up the guy who is BM. Your whole team is thinking "fuck it, no ff now, we gonna lose but I won't lose lying down."

It's like someone plugged a pair of batteries into the team, they go quiet and focus. Then when they win, they BM the fuck out of the enemy player back. If they lose, they made the enemy team respect them by not giving up, and by making the enemy team work for a win.

Often when teams BM each other, it's a healthier outlet than fighting within a team. Either way you're frustrated, but when people BM enemies it paints a target on their back and your team unites against a common enemy. You want to fuck up the guy who says your top sucks, more than you want to fuck up your top who sucks.

This is my experience playing this game and other sports. If you saw something different please say so.

26 Comments

Hotarµ3/31/2019, 7:22:04 PM6 votes

Here's an example of BM. "Uninstall, loser"

It'd be harassment if it or something similar is repeated after someone makes clear they don't want to engage in that way

What if they just don't want to interact with you? Not everyone is going to voice their concerns or respond to trash talking.

Personally, I'm not a fan of allowing any sort of trash talk. I think it has a home in some places (like when I played football, I had a ton of fun saying some mean things that I knew wouldn't be taken to heart) but not in League. People are always going to take it too far and that line of "what is and isn't okay "is different for every person.

For example, I see something like "Uninstall, loser" as negative but someone else (maybe you?) sees it as acceptable. That's the problem with online trash-talk, you never know what someone's intent truly is.

Susan Smith4/1/2019, 2:03:52 PM5 votes

"Here's an example of BM. "Uninstall, loser""

That is not BM, that is verbal abuse.

Actual example of BM: Lux misses q on you Spam taric emote while asking "where are you aiming honey"

GatekeeperTDS3/31/2019, 8:05:31 PM4 votes

It all boils down to the delivery, just like any social interaction in life. I've used this example before as good BM vs bad BM -

"You can't milk those!" is perfectly acceptable BM.

"[Insert champion name here] you fucking suck, uninstall loser." is really not.

Around999People3/31/2019, 8:04:39 PM4 votes

I think the uninstall comment is too far, but in general some Bm is fine. I particularly enjoyed 'Calculated' since it aimed at showing you were more skilled without actually putting someone down. I dont like making people feel shitty, but I like to gloat lol. So I just try to not say they're but, but that im better

Umbral Regent3/31/2019, 9:42:31 PM3 votes

First of all, let's talk about the difference between harassment and BM, it's an important distinction to make for my argument.

Agreed - having a distinction between BM and harassment is important, especially for discussions centered on those behaviors.

BM is to gloat/put down players in an effort to get in their heads.

You're starting to lose me, here. Gloating - sure. But putting players down - or, rather, expressly putting them down - isn't precisely it. There's a difference between getting in a biting comment and ragging on someone's performance.

Harassment is just BM that goes too far.

Not entirely true, harassment constitutes a litany of other behaviors beyond just excessive BM, but I suppose for the purposes of the discussion, it suffices.

Where do we draw the line? I draw it at repetitive, targeted, and unwnanted(sic) BM.

That is an odd line to draw, IMO. Wouldn't BM, by its definition, be unwanted? Since BM is just an initialism for "bad manners", I can't fathom any situation where people would honestly invite it.

Minor criticism aside, let's keep going, shall we?

Here's an example of BM. "Uninstall, loser"

Aaaaaand you lost me. That's not an example of BM, that's harassment. That already fits two out of the four criteria that you define as the line between harassment and BM - for one, it goes way too far, inasmuch as you're telling someone to quit playing the game and uninstall it over one slip-up.

Add to that that nobody would want to be called a loser or told to uninstall a game that they enjoy playing, and already I'm going to call it, that's the line between BM and harassment.

It'd be harassment if it or something similar is repeated after someone makes clear they don't want to engage in that way

As Hotarµ said, not everyone is going to be vocal in regards to dealing with trash talking. You can never truly know whether or not someone was off-put by your BM, implying that what you're doing actually is BM and not harassment.

As for BM itself being good for the game, I believe there is a place for it. I can't speak to whether or not it encourages people to try harder, but BM - done right - can create some game-to-game animosity that, in some ways, is healthy. I wouldn't say it brings teams together, but there's certainly that solitary satisfaction in bouncing back and flooring the guy who was all-too-cocky in the early game.

The issue is that, like criticism, which is also a healthy part of the game and many learning experiences, people need to learn how to do it /right/. And that is, unfortunately, a skill that the community lacks, in my experience, both in regards to BM as well as with criticism.

Nik Nikerson3/31/2019, 8:05:11 PM2 votes

The difference is, when you're playing other sports, you're interacting with people in real life. You can hear someone's tone of voice. You can read their body language and facial features. There is more than just a line of text. You have a much better sense of when someone is just talking a little trash and when they are just being mean spirited.

And let's be clear, even if someone thinks they are just engaging in some friendly trash talk in real life, it doesn't mean that they aren't being an asshole. My friends and I have banished guys from our basketball games for being assholes because NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY WITH THEM. We're all there to enjoy ourselves and play ball, not listen to Brandon talk shit for an hour because he thinks he's a master of "getting in your head". He's not. Brandon is just a dick that no one likes.

Red Mage FTS4/1/2019, 9:48:17 PM1 votes

I think BMing is expected in small doces.

We were given mastery emotes, and at their core, that is BM. Get a kill, flash mastery... it says "im good, you are not and you are dead because of it."

Just keep it clean... that is the issue, the arbitrary defintion of clean.

Telephone Booth4/2/2019, 11:59:20 PM1 votes

Its a good way to manipulate people's emotions, affecting their gameplay. Unfortunately its against the rules whether you do it to the enemy or an ally. I think the only BM that is allowed is the built-in BM... like taunts and emotes.

ModPrandine4/3/2019, 12:13:20 AM1 votes

From Ulanopo's Knowledge Base:

Trash talk is part of all competitive sports. It happens all the time in the pros.

Yes and no. Yes, trash talk occurs, but it has definite limits. Most of the things that are punished in game (racial, ethnic and homophobic slurs, sexism, etc.) would also earn you a hefty fine in professional sports.

A Tumblr List of NBA Fines (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/) (My personal favorite on that site is this indefinite suspension (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/post/1010368028/3-12-96-the-nba-suspended-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-den), simply for refusing to stand during the National Anthem.)

A List of NFL Fines for Taunting (https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/fines-appeals/)

NBC Article on Fines Agreed to by the NFLPA (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/01/bizarrely-specific-nfl-fines-come-from-agreed-league-union-schedule/) "Excessive profanity or other unsportsmanlike conduct triggers a minimum fine of $10,500."

NHL Office of Player Safety (http://www.nhl.com/ice/eventhome.htm?location=/playersafety) Brendan Shanahan is the ****ing Bad Santa of the NHL. Did you know that his Office of Player Safety watches every minute of every game, from multiple angles? He sees and hears EVERYTHING, including swearing.

... and the grand finale! Marge Schott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_Schott), who was forced out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds for racist comments and pro-Nazi sentiments.

https://lol.gamepedia.com/List_of_Competitive_Rulings

ThreshHub3/31/2019, 7:36:26 PM1 votes

I highly doubt that in a game of league, if an enemy bm's you, your team will give a shit. Most likely that player will just tilt and make stupid decisions that cost his team the win.

xDogMeatx3/31/2019, 7:38:55 PM1 votes

Bming causes mistakes to happen on both ends. Plus light bming I believe is acceptable it's just poking at their ribs.

KFCeytron3/31/2019, 8:14:51 PM1 votes

First of all, let's talk about the difference between hate speech and BM, it's an important distinction to make for my argument. BM is to toss out racial slurs in an effort to get in their heads. Hate speech is just BM that goes too far. Where do we draw the line? I draw it at repetitive, targeted, and unwnanted racial slurs.

One thing to point out is that all hate speech is BM, but not all BM is hate speech.

Here's an example of BM. "Uninstall, percent-percent-percent-percent-percent-percent"

It'd be hate speech if it or something similar is repeated after someone makes clear they don't want to engage in that way

Now that I've got that out of the way, I'll try to explain why BM is good. It increases the stakes of the game temporarily and thus people try harder to win, and provides a common enemy for the team to unite against. In a ranked game, you've got 20 lp on the line, but when someone calls you or your teammate a percent-percent-percent-percent-percent-percent it's personal. Now you're trying to win for LP, and to shut up the guy who is BM. Your whole team is thinking "fuck it, no ff now, we gonna lose but I won't lose lying down."

It's like someone plugged a pair of batteries into the team, they go quiet and focus. Then when they win, they BM the fuck out of the enemy player back. If they lose, they made the enemy team respect them by not giving up, and by making the enemy team work for a win.

Often when teams BM each other, it's a healthier outlet than fighting within a team. Either way you're frustrated, but when people BM enemies it paints a target on their back and your team unites against a common enemy. You want to fuck up the guy who says your top sucks, more than you want to fuck up your top who sucks.

This is my experience playing this game and other sports. If you saw something different please say so.

Moody P3/31/2019, 8:35:02 PM1 votes

only a gremlin would get upset about the possibility of being BM'd while also refusing to turn off all chat and/or full mute

BM is part and parcel and I would say a core tenet of any competitive video game

Hotarµ3/31/2019, 8:35:49 PM1 votes

Well usually when people go jeez and complain followed by all caps they're frustrated.

Yes, I highlighted a quote that you ignored. Clearly that means I'm frustrated.

Using the word I, means you. If you dont want people to assume you, dont say I.

Saying something like "Let's say I found a $100 dollar bill on the ground" is clearly meant as an example and not to factually say "I found a $100 dollars." It's a hypothetical.

But I'm not here to argue grammar or linguistics, so think whatever you want, however flawed it may be.

Yes, harassment is just BM that crosses a line. That line is different for different people. So if someone has crossed a line and offended another, the offended should say so. If the offenses continue it's harassment.

This statement is such a contradiction.

You have to cross a line for it to be considered harassment, but that line is different for everyone, but the offended has to say so and until that point it's not harassment?

No, that's not how things work or should work.

When I agreed to that in my OP and offered a counter point that you've been unable to adress.

Because the very basis of your argument is contradictory at best, and the things you say conflict with one another. See above.

If you continue to speak to me as if I'm ignoring your posts, then I'd complain about you. See how this works?

If you actually acknowledged what I had typed and addressed it instead of sticking to your opposing points, you'd see that on some level we do agree. Your antithetical conclusions about when something is considered harassment is where we disagree.

Generally, people tend to address those points instead of outright claiming the other person is lying to further their agenda.

See how arguments work?

Have a great day, bud.