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One punishment to rule them all...why one form of punishment works for everyone

slash mute yall·4/6/2017, 10:34:00 PM·1 votes·1,194 views

Or rather...why do we think that one form of punishment would work for everyone?

All it takes is having a sibling or at least two kids to understand that even coming from the same parents, people can be extremely different from each other. What works for one child will not work the other, and so we understand that in order to raise each child the best, they must be raised differently.

Why is it then that we settle for one form of motivation (punishment), and basically one modality (temporary or permanent bans)? If I said that Leaverbuster sucks, then people could tell me of all the ways that it works, so instead I ask that if it does work okay, then why not make something that works even better?

We lock people in prison and take away more than their rights to play a game, but we have crazy high recidivism. Is this really a good system as it stands? Can it really not be made much better?

33 Comments

ModUlanopo4/6/2017, 10:38:10 PM5 votes

Why is it then that we settle for one form of motivation (punishment), and basically one modality (temporary or permanent bans)?

Riot doesn't "settle". The research shows that the failure to reform rates do not change with type of punishment. That's why the punishment volcano was replaced with 4 Strikes. The first three strikes can be pretty much anything, so Riot has decided to not waste time attempting to reform people who are highly unlikely to reform.

Kei1434/6/2017, 11:16:08 PM3 votes

It certainly can be made better, the real question is whether it is worth the time / resources to improve it.

The # hours it takes to plan, design, implement, troubleshoot it VS the amount of players it can affect VS the likeliness of that playerbase it will change their behavior towards the goal of the new system are factors that would influence the decision.

Currently Riot has decided to focus on the new client and the upcoming new honor system.

Even if you make the case that Riot has lots of money and can afford to hire some new folks to improve the leaver buster system, their money is probably better spent on other behavioral projects such as interactive report cards, clearer reform cards, self mute feature, pregame lobby reporting system etc etc.

ModThe Djinn4/6/2017, 10:40:24 PM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=slash mute yall,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=olNilMca,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-06T22:34:00.605+0000) Or rather...why do we think that one form of punishment would work for everyone?

At the core of the issue is the fact that Riot can't identify what punishment would work for a given player out of a list of several options (and, as Ulanopo says, research shows that different punishments don't really change the reform rate that much anyway). That takes a knowledge of the person that a company can't hope to accomplish on a scale even close to what is necessary.

Further, it levels the playing field. Everyone is judged by the same standards, and subject to the same punishments (with varying severity dependent on the severity of the infraction).

Finally, Riot is in the game business, not the therapy business. They give multiple warnings, which is the opportunity for players to find ways to manage their behavior. As for the players for whom this is insufficient? It seems Riot has taken the stance that it would rather not have them playing the game than use resources attempting to reform them, as they've failed to find ways to improve themselves even after multiple warnings and chances. That failure is on them, not on Riot.

Perhaps the system can be improved, yes. Riot's always working on that behind the scenes. But if you have suggestions I, for one, am always interested in hearing them.

Magical Player4/6/2017, 10:34:43 PM2 votes

Aight what is the solution?

SnakDatSmilesBak4/6/2017, 10:51:10 PM1 votes

I agree that perhaps riot could diversify punishments and their approach to player moderation. I think it's an uphill battle to try and fit players into different programs to reform them.

Recidivism is a cool word.

KORGtuners4/8/2017, 5:51:39 PM1 votes

Don't ever suggest getting rid of the ineffective punishment system. Better to have the pitch forks and torches aimed at others.

Wolfess4/10/2017, 1:08:23 AM1 votes

well... what's your part in this. must be a reason why you bring this up because i'm very sure most players that aren't punished wouldn't be trying to argue about something like this.

slash mute yall4/10/2017, 2:15:37 AM1 votes

Based on my discussion with Ulanopo, I believe that Riot is getting a lot of undeserved mileage out of this statistic about the diminishing returns on the Leaverbuster reforming player behavior. I am sure that it was an improvement from what it was before, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. There is obviously a lot more that could be done, but Riot will not share any of the raw data with us. What options does that leave the game "for players and by players" if the players cannot make any suggestions to improve their 'justice' system -since to make a specific suggestion we would need the unattainable raw data? Are we just Jurassic Cho'gath-ed?