Boards›Player Behavior

Lets Start A Movement

Lävëndër··45 votes·3,433 views

If you are an old player you know that league wasn't always like this. When I say like this, I'm talking about our community. Our community has some very dedicated players and you know that attitude affects gameplay. People argue that you should just mute people and move on, or rather "If you are affected by chat you are weak minded". That is sad. We blame riot and the tribunal for not doing anything and what about us. What have we done? I want to bring back making new friends on a game we love, I wanna bring back the community we love, not the community that accepts people being destructive because that is as bad as being that negative person.

I think that to solve the Issue of toxic, and negative players is to do something about it. IF there is a toxic person don't fight with them, try to be positive and work as a team. Apologize if they might have gotten offended, tell them you will go help them ( AND ACTUALLY DO). Be nice about things, ask them if we can work as a team, and if something is bothering them we can talk in post lobby. If that doesn't work then and only then mute them and report after. But I don't argue. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS YOU. As a player you should be encouraging and supportive to your team. Say good job, and good luck, or nice try. In pre game ask how people are doing and maybe strike up a conversation about a new movie or game coming out. We have all had those games and we enjoy them, you know it.

So as a player in this massive community I want to make a difference and promote positive play. Sometimes winning isnt everything, and if you care about winning so much then realize the easiest way to win is being positive and promote teamwork because teamwork wins games.

48 Comments

Lothàrs Edge12 votes

As much as I respect anyone who tries, I'm simply not their therapist.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

You are tho. You're a citizen. You're obligated to help and guide your peers.

Lothàrs Edge2 votes

I'm a citizen correct, but no that does not make me obligated to do anything above and beyond for anyone.

I've long given up on trying. Perhaps you'll feel the same after a literal decade of playing.

Junsui Aoi4 votes

This should be stickered. Js. :)

I wholeheartedly agree. If more people focused on the fact you're playing with other human beings, and not faceless cohorts trying to tank your precious MMR, then a lot of games would be much more enjoyable.

I recently had a normal where I went bot lane with my BF (He's a mid main, I'm a support main). We had an off game, but weren't feeding per se, then the top laner decides to just trash talk us. I'm sorry I was playing a Normal and wanted to enjoy a little teamwork. I said before they spoke up that I was sorry I was playing poorly. When someone says something like that, you don't throw it in their face and smear it around. You say, its okay, play safe, stay under turret, that kinda thing. If they're open to it, you can suggest items to build even. But don't just call people trash. It makes folks play so much worse because they're no longer just focusing on playing the game to their best ability.

Lävëndër3 votes

I completely agree, I remember where normals was the place to have fun. Like ap rengar, and ap hecarim, jg twitch. but now people act like if you do somthing off-meta you are trolling. As long as people are actually trying, then you can do whatever you want. Negativity is no the way to go.

Have you ever seen those cause and effect videos of kind deeds, that sh*t is real, it actually happens. SO implement that into gameplay. Be nice to your team, maybe someone from your game in their next game will pick it up and make a difference.

#PLAYERREFORMMOVEMENT #PRM

Akenero1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magic Pony,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-04-12T17:38:17.213+0000)

I completely agree, I remember where normals was the place to have fun. Like ap rengar, and ap hecarim, jg twitch. but now people act like if you do somthing off-meta you are trolling. As long as people are actually trying, then you can do whatever you want. Negativity is no the way to go.

Have you ever seen those cause and effect videos of kind deeds, that sh*t is real, it actually happens. SO implement that into gameplay. Be nice to your team, maybe someone from your game in their next game will pick it up and make a difference.

#PLAYERREFORMMOVEMENT #PRM

Can crabgot be the spokesperson? "My challenge is not life, it's toxicity, pollution and league."

Lävëndër1 votes

Remember that you are playing a game with other people. Be kind to them and they can change, but dont fight with them. Work on yourself and promoting positivity and you will see a difference. Do an experiment, play a game where you ask people how they are, don't say anything negative, and positively reward people for doing good with good job and compliments, but dont punish people for doing bad simply ask how can you help them. You will be suprised with the outcome.

Akenero1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magic Pony,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-12T17:58:01.360+0000)

Remember that you are playing a game with other people. Be kind to them and they can change, but dont fight with them. Work on yourself and promoting positivity and you will see a difference. Do an experiment, play a game where you ask people how they are, don't say anything negative, and positively reward people for doing good with good job and compliments, but dont punish people for doing bad simply ask how can you help them. You will be suprised with the outcome.

Exactly, and new players take most of it. I know I flamed hard in "self defense", but really it was immaturity, when I was level 7, got a 2 week ban from it. Never had a ban since

Lävëndër1 votes

I'm sorry what do you mean by new players take most of it. Could you rephrase that or something, it doesn't make sense to me, again im sorry

Reaper Review1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magic Pony,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-12T18:09:15.580+0000)

I'm sorry what do you mean by new players take most of it. Could you rephrase that or something, it doesn't make sense to me, again im sorry

When a player is banned for toxicity, they'll often make a new account. They're likely still angry that they got banned, so they take it out on the new players because "it's fun to screw with Riot's system".

For someone who's actively antagonistic, it becomes fun, or at least cathartic, to undermine the system and make things miserable for others. At that point, all the ban's doing is throwing them down with the new players to take the brunt of their grievances.

Being subjected to this can in turn make the new players toxic themselves. It's potentially a rather vicious cycle.

That's what I'm getting out of it, anyway.

Lävëndër1 votes

Which is why not to rely on the tribunal, instead by promoting positive energy you have a chance to persuade the player to reform. A chance is better than nothing at all.

Reaper Review1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magic Pony,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-12T18:25:12.612+0000)

Which is why not to rely on the tribunal, instead by promoting positive energy you have a chance to persuade the player to reform. A chance is better than nothing at all.

Not a lot of banned players actually reform, though, I don't think, or if they do it's a while after the fact. That's kinda the point of a permanent ban, the system decided you'd never reform and kicked you out.

At that point, you can divide people into three groups:

  • The angry player who takes his ban out on new players on another account. These are likely the most common.
  • The player who learns their lesson, but just doesn't feel like playing League anymore due to losing so much.
  • The player who not only learned their lesson, but wants to try and give back to the community by helping combat toxicity.

The third kind of person is what we need more of to make pre-30 bearable, but sadly very few people seem to fall under that. Not nearly enough to offset the other problems.

I've had games where I wanted to try and enforce positive behavior, but my teammates are so busy arguing over every little thing that I go completely unheard.

Lävëndër1 votes

It's difficult yes, but impossible no. If people get banned and want to be rude on a new account I cant stop them. But if nobody else in the game says anything rude back, or if you show nothing but positivity 2 things can happen. Either they change, which is slim but still there, or riot has the easiest case ever. People instead of ignoring and saying nothing will change, should report these people and help riot eliminate players like this, and even a chat ban goes a long way

Gnart Even Close3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magic Pony,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-04-12T17:38:17.213+0000)

I completely agree, I remember where normals was the place to have fun. Like ap rengar, and ap hecarim, jg twitch. but now people act like if you do somthing off-meta you are trolling. As long as people are actually trying, then you can do whatever you want. Negativity is no the way to go.

Have you ever seen those cause and effect videos of kind deeds, that sh*t is real, it actually happens. SO implement that into gameplay. Be nice to your team, maybe someone from your game in their next game will pick it up and make a difference.

#PLAYERREFORMMOVEMENT #PRM

that is exactly how i feel about normals. they are for fun, you can do whatever troll thing you want, as long as you are nice and you actually try to win. if you want to win with devourer tahm kench, then so be it, but if you are being a nice teammate and you are trying to do well then everything is ok

Weathered3 votes

The concept of toxicity is simply a bi-product of growth as a game, as odd as it sounds. Originally games start small and are made of a dedicated and interested player base, but as a game is discovered in how good it is and gets popular, a wider variety of people try it. This variety eventually balances out to reflect the percentages of how people are in real life, and you should know that there are tons of assholes in the world, or at least they are assholes online. You can't change how people are, and sadly you have to deal with people in this world.

Actually, as I'm writing this, this is possibly why games eventually die off and new games become popular. Rather than people being bored, it's possible that the game just becomes TOO popular. The game ceases to have a player base of people who care, and simply just has the biggest player base. So, those original players move on to go play a new game together, and eventually that game becomes popular too.

Lävëndër3 votes

People can change, I changed. Look at all the reformed players out there. One day people wake up and realize that life is valuable, have you ever thought how many people die in a day, and how many of those people knew they were going to die. Be happy, spread happiness you should always look to make the world a better place when you leave it then when you enter it, and sometimes you never know when you are leaving.

As for dedicated players, how many people still play classic games, the dedicated people never leave, the negative people do or they change, not always the case but, the majority :)

Weathered1 votes

I'm happy that you feel that way, and it would be wonderful if everyone saw the world the same way, but from a psychological standpoint that isn't going to happen easily.

If you've ever been through high school (you sound pretty mature) you meet a lot of odd or different people. I personally found that there are actually people who reflect those toxic players. It's hard to believe that people act like that and choose to be that way in their life, but there are actually people who find happiness and content from peoples unhappiness and discontent. Its saddening, and I agree that people should take a step back and enjoy and respect eachother.

Lävëndër1 votes

We just need to take one step at a time. Look at the civil rights movement. There are some hateful people out there, who fully believe the opposite of my view. I accept that as it their choice in what to believe not mine. But what I can do is slowly change things. If people promote positivity and without aggression against these people, I think their numbers will change in time.

Weathered1 votes

I won't disagree. Games would be a lot better of more players were like this, and personally I try to act like you have above mentioned (second half of second paragraph in original post). Good luck with this then.

Lävëndër1 votes

thanks man, good luck in league :)

Reaper Review2 votes

I've reformed in a spectacular way, or so I've been told. I can tell you that you've got a ways to go, though, in regards to this movement of yours. I'm seeing so much toxicity on my way back to 30 on my new account that it's becoming depressing.

The fact that, in the context of this game, there's very little incentive to reforming after being banned doesn't help. (Hextech Crafting's not an incentive, and I have to resist the urge to slap anyone who says otherwise. It's a reward for playing the game well, not for good sportsmanship and being positive.)

I mean, I'm one person. I can't really fight all the toxicity that's leaked back down into pre-30 by myself.

Lävëndër1 votes

I also created another account, obviously not this one but I know what you mean. Obviously this movement is as new as this post, and I think that only as a community that changes to promote positivity instead of ignoring negative behavior can we change the game into a more enjoyable atmosphere.

Mama Soraka2 votes

Hello again Reaper. I recall posting in your thread in the PB&M boards. That said, I can't help but dislike your attitude towards Hextech Crafting. It is both a reward for Micro-level (or personal) good play in that it requires an S- rank or higher to achieve a free chest, but also a reward for Macro-level teamwork, in that you cannot earn free loot if you demonstrate poor sportsmanship and/or negativity.

To blatantly ignore one aspect of the reward structure to fit your own view is not really a good way to look at things, wouldn't you agree?

But back on the topic at hand, I have to agree that there is not a lot of incentive to reform except to keep your account from the highest tiers of punishment, IE permanent suspension. On the other hand though, I can't agree that this is an inherently bad thing. We're all people and if we can't treat each other properly on principle alone we probably shouldn't be allowed to play at all, hence the suspension. To turn it around, what else could be done to make reforming feel like a good option? I can't answer that question because I never have and never will be on that side of the equation. I don't generally treat people poorly and I find that is a reasonable expectation for my fellow summoner.

Reaper Review1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mauve Thunder,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-04-12T19:54:29.488+0000)

Hello again Reaper. I recall posting in your thread in the PB&M boards. That said, I can't help but dislike your attitude towards Hextech Crafting. It is both a reward for Micro-level (or personal) good play in that it requires an S- rank or higher to achieve a free chest, but also a reward for Macro-level teamwork, in that you cannot earn free loot if you demonstrate poor sportsmanship and/or negativity.

To blatantly ignore one aspect of the reward structure to fit your own view is not really a good way to look at things, wouldn't you agree?

But back on the topic at hand, I have to agree that there is not a lot of incentive to reform except to keep your account from the highest tiers of punishment, IE permanent suspension. On the other hand though, I can't agree that this is an inherently bad thing. We're all people and if we can't treat each other properly on principle alone we probably shouldn't be allowed to play at all, hence the suspension. To turn it around, what else could be done to make reforming feel like a good option? I can't answer that question because I never have and never will be on that side of the equation. I don't generally treat people poorly and I find that is a reasonable expectation for my fellow summoner.

In a vacuum, Hextech doesn't bother me, actually. It's mainly been bothering me because I've been told a few times that for showing good behavior on my new account, I'd have the right to use it and earn myself more content quicker.

Which is fine, except I'm really not that good at League mechanically. I've gotten a single S-rank since crafting was introduced, and it was as Illaoi. Who I don't actually own, so I didn't get a box anyway on top of losing that game due to it being a 4v5.

I guess what I'm saying is that people highlight the "privilege to use it for good sportsmanship" part too much and forget that that's a moot point if you aren't a good enough player to get chests with any frequency. Even worse for new players who likely won't own many champions.

As for reforming being a good option, the right to keep using your account basically IS the incentive. Depending on the person, though, this can be more difficult than it looks. Especially since descending the punishment tiers is actually just as vague as re-earning Hextech rewards. (That 3 months per tier thing is just a popular rumor. The Rioter I was discussing it with via support ticket told me it's actually much the same as the reward system. I posted his comments on it in my most recent thread.)

I don't know, I feel doubly bad about my own ban because I don't even intentionally mistreat anyone, and then triply bad because I can't do much on my own to help out anyone pre-30.

Mama Soraka1 votes

I imagine, then, that we both just echo the popular sentiment of "riot should really make it clearer where people are on the punishment system and how they can reform".

I really can't think of anything else at this point :<

Oh and maybe releasing a support article addressing all the rumors about the punitive system that won't harm it. Seriously I see so much misinformation being slung about in the PB&M boards it kills me inside.

Reaper Review1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mauve Thunder,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-12T20:12:47.586+0000)

I imagine, then, that we both just echo the popular sentiment of "riot should really make it clearer where people are on the punishment system and how they can reform".

I really can't think of anything else at this point :<

Oh and maybe releasing a support article addressing all the rumors about the punitive system that won't harm it. Seriously I see so much misinformation being slung about in the PB&M boards it kills me inside.

Riot doesn't want to give any specifics on the system because they don't want to set metrics. They want players to behave for the sake of being well-behaved.

Personally, if I had known how well or not-well I was doing after my 14-day ban, I might've put in extra effort to fixing my own problems. When the only thing I know is "I'm permabanned if I slip up once more", it just makes me paranoid and more likely to falter.

The only reason my 14-day and permanent bans were almost 3 months apart is for that reason. I spent a good amount of that time too paranoid to play, for fear of being banned.

scazzman1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-12T20:26:59.397+0000)

Riot doesn't want to give any specifics on the system because they don't want to set metrics. They want players to behave for the sake of being well-behaved.

Personally, if I had known how well or not-well I was doing after my 14-day ban, I might've put in extra effort to fixing my own problems. When the only thing I know is "I'm permabanned if I slip up once more", it just makes me paranoid and more likely to falter.

The only reason my 14-day and permanent bans were almost 3 months apart is for that reason. I spent a good amount of that time too paranoid to play, for fear of being banned.

why does no one ever address this

Reaper Review1 votes

{quoted}

why does no one ever address this

To be honest, I don't think an indicator would be needed at the other tiers. Just the last one, because at that point you're basically navigating a cliffside in foggy weather.

That's the best analogy I could come up with.

Reaper Review2 votes

I don't even think attitudes pre-30 would be that bad if the game didn't have so many lopsided problems completely unrelated to player behavior.

  • Smurfs from varying skill levels causing a wild disparity in player balance.
  • On top of that, keystone masteries making the mid levels imbalanced. If the enemy laner happens to be more skilled than you, good luck. If they're more skilled AND have a keystone while you don't? Yeah, have fun with that.
  • The only real choice for PVP normals being blind pick, a mode not particularly known for fostering coordination. There's really nothing you can do about this, though.

I wish Riot would send more messages about the rewards of positive behavior instead of just finding more and more ways to punish negative ones. Really, all you actually "get" for being positive is keeping the chance to use hextech crafting. (Note how I say 'the chance to'. Actually GETTING hextech items is a reward for playing well, and has nothing to do with behavior.)

I'll be completely honest, that's mainly the reason I wish I could get my own ban lowered. To send a message that turning around, being positive, and working to improve the community as a whole CAN be rewarded. Right now, the only 'reward' all my effort has gotten me is seeing how much worse pre-30 has gotten and very nearly having my spirit broken by it.

Lävëndër1 votes

YES thats it. We need to get this to the attention of riot. How do we promote a better community. REWARDS AND GIFTS. Players should be rewarded for such things Make banners more accessible and work on new ways of gifting without real money. Then players have another reason to be nice

Denavai2 votes

If I didn't play 100% dynamic solo que I might agree, but my perspective is purely from the bottom of the barrel. I'm not an online therapist and I don't want to hear the crude crap I hear in half of my games. I merely tolerate it.

FearEngineer1 votes

lol @ "dynamic solo queue"

comedy gold

Occams Raiser2 votes

nonsense

Only Play Darius2 votes

These days what makes people toxic isn't the others players, it's the game itself. Stuff like premades, useless towers, zero vision etc.

RISE Shlack1234 votes

This post is pretty much the epitome of the problem. You're saying it's ok to be toxic to total strangers because the game itself is the problem?

warmcorntortilla2 votes

What about people who think, oh I don't know... winning is fun? I don't want to deal with people's stupid bullshit in a game, and if they try something dumb and feed, ruining my game and wasting my time, I will probably not be happy about it, and I shouldn't have to be. I'll mute them and move on, I'm not gonna flame somebody in normals, but I'm also not going to go out of my way to be nice to them. I'm sick of this attitude where somebody will take something stupid like Master Yi support or something, feed hard as fuck, and ruin the game for nine other people. It's gross and obnoxious and I will not participate positively in it.

worm1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magic Pony,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-12T17:27:09.837+0000)

If you are an old player you know that league wasn't always like this. When I say like this, I'm talking about our community

Because everyone was still learning the game. it comes with years of playing the game where people develop an ego and think they're always right.

Lävëndër1 votes

generally around gold yes, but instead of arguing you state what you think is best and they can decide. obviously there are people who wont listen but once they are surrounded by positive people its kind of hard not to stick out, which cleans up the tribunal system making it more clear.

lofi n chillhop1 votes

fizz tilted and I made sure to shut down his lane opponent and then also made sure he got the kills (and apologized when I had to take them to ensure his survival)

he ended up on a 8 kill streak! I felt all secretly proud of myself. well the cats outa the bag heh...

Lävëndër1 votes

That is the type of player we need, GO YOU!!! We need more people like you

Lovely Pants1 votes

It's good to have your attitude, but I feel the biggest obstacle to surmount in actually driving change in the community is that the prominent mediums of communication players have with each other are either competitive (playing the game) or sites generally fueled by debating personal desires and anger (the official boards, etc.)

For example, the concept and creations board here really poorly serves the needs of the creative fun-loving side of the community because more amateurish work is strongly criticized and only the most polished/ meme-worthy work receives any praise or feedback. That population of the community has migrated in a splintered form to other sites and I doubt any newcomer growth can be expected in the current format.

The game itself offers very poor incentives for fun-play and that community feeling. The client has made only infantile steps towards providing decent group structures. There aren't any small kinds of gifts you can give random players without actually reaching into your pocket. Despite the efforts to make "fun" modes, there isn't any community incentive to be good sports there either. (In both of these cases occasional icons as IP purchasable or event rewards are pretty garbage given there isn't much of a personal interface to show off in client). Unofficial player tournaments are difficult to advertise to the majority of the player population and lack a good infrastructure in general.

A lot of this stuff has to be enabled by Riot in some way to make great headway, and it would be good to make your voice known about these kinds of things when you have the opportunity to offer feedback.

That being said, if players want to do everything in their power to better the community right now, I think this is what is in our reach:

  1. Recognize that you play the game for fun
  2. Empower those creators and players who are focused on the fun aspects of the community by taking a little time to let them know you care if you enjoy what they do.
  3. Find a way to contribute along with other creators/community members.
Lävëndër1 votes

I agree with you on how limited we are, but also I think if more people could see what it does not just for fun but elo climbing and such you win alot more and communicate a lot better if people are nice. So the message really goes to all players. Honestly e can both agree that it doesn't hurt anyone if everyone was a little nicer.

Lovely Pants1 votes

Undoubtedly. Truncated as the second part of my post is, I don't mean to deemphasize the potential of player driven community.

However, I think an important prong of the action to reach your goal is to remember to put pressure on Riot to organize the space around their game so that it is all the easier for us to conduct our efforts. I don't mean just whining for anything and everything, but positive action towards supporting more organized suggestions that let Riot know what kind of social features you think the community could benefit from them prioritizing.

Lävëndër1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magic Pony,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=okqRMKc3,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-04-12T18:54:27.269+0000)

YES thats it. We need to get this to the attention of riot. How do we promote a better community. REWARDS AND GIFTS. Players should be rewarded for such things Make banners more accessible and work on new ways of gifting without real money. Then players have another reason to be nice

This was my idea

Sqkerg1 votes

You have to understand that as this game becomes more and more popular, there are more and more people TO be toxic, that is most likely the reason as to why you are seeing more levels of chat toxicity

McKeifus1 votes

The fundamental problem is that some players(and the comments below prove this without a doubt) believe they have the right to abuse you if you are not good, because you are "wasting their time". This is wrong for a number of obvious reasons, and these people aren't going away. The Tribunal has proven to be ineffective, evidenced by the number of toxic players still around. You can't fix angry or stupid, and there are just too many angry stupid people playing this game. I don't have a solution, though I have taken to sitting these folks down like children and explaining, calmly, that what they are doing is actually wrong. They won't listen, but at least I will feel morally superior.

StarxPower1 votes

It was always like this.

Fovere1 votes

As far as chat toxicity goes, League is miles from what it used to be say in S1-2.

Combination of the brazilian/latin servers and a ramping up on tribunal cases has, over time, really helped get rid of the truly bad stuff.

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