Community Appeal System - Rough Draft

Reaper Review··9 votes·1,438 views

An idea I've made mention of in some of my recent posts.

This is a (rough draft of) a system where a banned player can, after a pre-determined time period, appeal to their fellow players for a last chance. The logic here being that, since bans are assigned to players that the system has decided the community shouldn't have to deal with, the right for a player to have another chance if they've shown reform should be up to that same community.

Now I know someone's going to tell me "but it's a permanent ban". In real terms, though, 'permanent' is only as long as Riot wants it to be, since they're in control of the account.

Anyway, here are the basic points of the system:


  • A banned player can file for a Community Appeal 2 months after the date of their ban (adjust time frame as needed). This provides the player with a very real incentive to reform, since their stuff actually hinges on their success instead of being just flat-out gone forever.

  • Said player then writes up an appeal, discussing how they believe they've reformed, and can use things they've done since their ban as evidence of such. Things like alt accounts leveled up without bad behavior, helping the game community in other ways, etc...

  • The Arbiters, as well as possibly players who have a relatively clear punishment record and are a certain summoner level, can then vote on these appeals. These players would likely also need to have played a certain number of PVP games to decrease the threat of alt accounts being used. (Level 30 with possibly ~300 PVP games having been played might be a good starting point.)

  • If the appeal is successful, the account is placed back at punishment tier 3, meaning one more strike and they're out (again). It's up to them to reform from there.

  • Community Appeal can only be done once per account, even if the appeal fails, so if they fail their appeal or screw up on their account again, they're done for-real-permanently.


This system isn't just "unban people". The banned needs to make their case, and be judged by their fellow players. Let their ultimate fate be decided by the people who pay to keep this game afloat rather than an automated system.

(It was pointed out to me that famous players who were banned may present an issue with this system, like Dunkey for example, so I am very aware of this.)

Thoughts? Opinions? Ridicule? I'll take anything as long as it makes a decent discussion point.


I'm mainly interested in seeing if players who were significantly punished can reform when given such an incentive. I know it didn't work when Riot tried it years ago, but accounts weren't worth nearly as much back then. Plus their testing period was rather short, all things considered. There's so much more at stake now.

40 Comments

Makior723 votes

No. Absolutely not.

If after going through 3 punishment tiers someone doesnt reform, they deserve the perma ban.

And if someone does something bad enough to jump straight to perma then again, they deserve it.

No amount of "i am sorry wont happen again" will ever get me to vote to repeal a perma ban.

Also i think the way the community is, people would honestly just use this system as a way to laugh at someone for being banned rather than take the appeal process seriously.

Reaper Review2 votes

{quoted}

Also i think the way the community is, people would honestly just use this system as a way to laugh at someone for being banned rather than take the appeal process seriously.

They do that on this board anyway. That's like 80% of this sub-board's traffic.

You mention "going through the punishment tiers", but I've had more than one person agree with me that the first three punishment tiers are laughable, after which you jump to the absolute extreme one, no questions asked.

Also, not all banned people get laughed at, especially if they give a strong case for themselves or have waited a long time to come forward. Look at me, I'm a banned player who admits it was my own fault, and judging by the number of upvotes my posts seem to get, I'd say I'm fairly popular here. There's also this thread:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/9zwZGfta-permabanned-almost-a-year-ago

Showing that players ARE willing to offer a second chance if they feel someone has earned it.

Reaper Review3 votes

I think I've nailed part of what's been bothering me about the lack of a system like this.

There's very little incentive to actually go straight and enjoy the game after reforming if you were banned. Your only two options are to make a new account and start from scratch to try and pick up the pieces, or quit League. Both of which are difficult in their own ways if you truly enjoy the game and want to change.

Those who don't plan to abide by the rules, though, have it significantly easier. They can start a new account and harass new players, damaging the new player experience (even more). They can buy a level 30 account and be on their way with minimal hassle and work involved. That or they just quit League also, but if they do, they likely didn't care too much. No matter what, though, it's easy for them to get their way compared to the person trying to legitimately reform.

At the end of the day, the person who really wants to reform gets the short end of the stick in exchange for a moral victory that honestly doesn't amount to much because it's just a video game.

Am I wrong for thinking this way?

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

Actions have consequences. If you really think you can be better, then be better. Getting your old account back should not be a part of that equation. That account was used to ruin the game for people, intentionally or otherwise. You should consider yourself lucky that there isn't any effective way to stop people from making new accounts so you can have another chance at all TBH.

Your idea just doesn't fit in anywhere. The players you are talking about had their chances and pissed them away. They were judged by their peers and riot. When someone is being permanently banned the time for reform is over.

You seem to genuinely want to improve, and for whatever its worth you are one of the few I have seen on the boards that I actually think has a chance of succeeding. But part of taking responsibility is taking your punishment.

Reaper Review2 votes

{quoted}

Actions have consequences. If you really think you can be better, then be better. Getting your old account back should not be a part of that equation. That account was used to ruin the game for people, intentionally or otherwise. You should consider yourself lucky that there isn't any effective way to stop people from making new accounts so you can have another chance at all TBH.

Your idea just doesn't fit in anywhere. The players you are talking about had their chances and pissed them away. They were judged by their peers and riot. When someone is being permanently banned the time for reform is over.

You seem to genuinely want to improve, and for whatever its worth you are one of the few I have seen on the boards that I actually think has a chance of succeeding. But part of taking responsibility is taking your punishment.

I have been taking responsibility and showing reform without breaking any rules. The fact that I have so many votes of confidence from this forum is a testament to that.

It's just starting to bother me that I have to go to all this trouble to continue enjoying a game I want to support while showing improved character and judgment, while other banned players who aren't interested in repairing their ways can get what they want with little to no issue. I mean, if they get banned again for more rule-breaking, what do they care? They can just keep right on going with their antics until they get bored and move on to other things.

It just feels a little backwards that the honest player looking to reform after having seen the worst is punished harder than the one who doesn't care at all. You're right as well, though, and I mean, there really isn't much Riot can do either way.

I didn't even have to learn respect for other people like most banned players. I already DO respect other people, more than myself in fact, but all the stuff I said was just projecting my own self-deprecation. I finally learned to kick that habit by restoring my confidence in myself, just in time for me to now emotionally fall apart AGAIN trying to cope with my losing my account.

Now I'm trying to make amends for this by leveling a new account and behaving myself, but it's an agonizing grind of getting crushed by every smurf I encounter and not being able to fairly queue with any of the friends I was supposed to start playing with TO get my confidence back.

All this because I wanted to reform myself.

JackTheTripper2 votes

I think getting an old account back through reform should most defiantly be an option. Think others like yourself like to see people suffer and lose things that mean something to them. Tell me this how are you going to feel when it happens to you and there is no way to get what has been lost back? And it will happen trust me.

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

I don't think it should be an option because they should never be allowed to try in the first place. A permanent ban is the end of the line, the time to reform is over at that point. The fact that they even have that future chance to reform on a new account is just a loophole created by a lack of an effective way to prevent people from making new accounts in a free game.

It won't happen to me. Punished players aren't victims. Their punishments are entirely brought on by themselves.

JackTheTripper2 votes

That's my point there is no reform time, 2 weeks isn't any amount of time. They need to up the amount of time you are banned from the game not just ban hammer people. From what I have seen from this system is truly not good. But it's all fun and games until it happens to you. Ah keep in mind the machine doesn't pay attention to jokes. So you could ultimately catch some heat from joking around too.

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

I know basically as much about how the system works as anyone who doesn't work at riot can. I have played thousands of games since season 1. I just don't act in a manner that gets people banned, I just don't.

The system is extremely accurate. People thinking the system isn't good is mostly disagreeing with what should be punishable. I spend a lot of times on this board. Almost every "I was banned" thread falls into either someone thinking "they started it" or "that guy was worse than me" absolve themselves of fault. Or, like I said before, they disagree with what the policies actually are like that somehow makes them not apply to them. But they can't hide anymore. Every chat related punishment comes with chat logs. I see the logs that people claim aren't toxic or the context they think makes that toxicity acceptable.

I wouldn't be opposed to changing the structure of the durations of bans, but I don't think anything should include more chances. Specifically, I would love to see chat restrictions done away with completely. I hate them, they punish everyone on the team and leave me stuck with someone I don't want to play with because they can't even be trusted to speak. If it was something like 7 day ban, 14 day ban, 6 month ban, then permanent ban I would be fine with that. That said, I don't really consider time to be a significant factor. It is the behavior being pointed out.

Reaper Review1 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't be opposed to changing the structure of the durations of bans, but I don't think anything should include more chances. Specifically, I would love to see chat restrictions done away with completely. I hate them, they punish everyone on the team and leave me stuck with someone I don't want to play with because they can't even be trusted to speak. If it was something like 7 day ban, 14 day ban, 6 month ban, then permanent ban I would be fine with that. That said, I don't really consider time to be a significant factor. It is the behavior being pointed out.

I wouldn't mind this either, honestly.

The thing with time is that 2 weeks DOES go by quickly, especially for gamers who can just go play other games to pass the time. If they engross themselves in other games, they're likely not thinking too hard about their behavior in League.

I don't know, I was a weird case where I WAS trying to fix my behavior, but wasn't doing it the right way. It's hard for me to speak in regards to cases where people are consciously toxic.

JackTheTripper1 votes

Well said, I agree with a majority of it. Truly would just to see an actual reform system. People lose accounts everyday. Not that they don't deserve it but I think everyone deserves the ability to earn what was lost back.

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

Banned players were already judged by their fellow players. Players reported the banned person. What is considered punishable is based off of both tribunal voting data(also done by players) and current reporting data(by players). Their fate has already been decided by the players.

If you want to have something like that I would much rather see something like removing one of the chat restriction tiers and then add a lengthy 3+ month ban between 14 day and permanent.

Reaper Review1 votes

{quoted}

Banned players were already judged by their fellow players. Players reported the banned person. What is considered punishable is based off of both tribunal voting data(also done by players) and current reporting data(by players). Their fate has already been decided by the players.

If you want to have something like that I would much rather see something like removing one of the chat restriction tiers and then add a lengthy 3+ month ban between 14 day and permanent.

I wouldn't mind something like this, either. Either revise the system so that there's more impact to it before the final step, or make the tail end of it a bit more negotiable.

AJStarhiker2 votes

I think it's at least a promising start. I do like the idea of a community appeal process, as long as there's a way to avoid it turning into a popularity contest. Stripping names, like they did in the later iterations of the old Tribunal, might be one way to help with that.

I understand why Riot uses permabans. And I understand why the recovery program attempt they made failed (IIRC, it was around the end of S1 or early S2). I don't know, maybe they attempted it too soon and it failed because the players in question hadn't had enough time to grow up (in the case of teenagers) or learn better coping strategies. Some people never learn, though, so I like the one appeal part.

I'm not sure what an appropriate interval would be to become eligible, though.

Reaper Review2 votes

{quoted}

I think it's at least a promising start. I do like the idea of a community appeal process, as long as there's a way to avoid it turning into a popularity contest. Stripping names, like they did in the later iterations of the old Tribunal, might be one way to help with that.

That's probably a good idea, yeah. I never paid much attention to the Tribunal since I was still relatively new to the game when it was around.

I understand why Riot uses permabans. And I understand why the recovery program attempt they made failed (IIRC, it was around the end of S1 or early S2). I don't know, maybe they attempted it too soon and it failed because the players in question hadn't had enough time to grow up (in the case of teenagers) or learn better coping strategies. Some people never learn, though, so I like the one appeal part.

I'm not sure what an appropriate interval would be to become eligible, though.

I just used 2 months as a placeholder since that's how long it's been since my own ban, and I've had more than enough time to consider what I needed to do to change myself and how to do it.

You don't HAVE to do it at the earliest possible date, of course. Considering you only have one try to appeal, it's in your best interest to make sure you're ready when you go through with it, if you value your account.

AJStarhiker2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=oInEsBOj,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-04-04T16:50:09.930+0000)

That's probably a good idea, yeah. I never paid much attention to the Tribunal since I was still relatively new to the game when it was around.

I just used 2 months as a placeholder since that's how long it's been since my own ban, and I've had more than enough time to consider what I needed to do to change myself and how to do it.

You don't HAVE to do it at the earliest possible date, of course. Considering you only have one try to appeal, it's in your best interest to make sure you're ready when you go through with it, if you value your account.

No, you wouldn't have to do it at the earliest possible time, but people get impatient (Just look at the new players jumping into ranked as soon as they are Lvl 30 with 16 champions) and then complain they didn't get the results they wanted.

I suspect the best results would come from players who take the time to get feedback from players who can let them know "Hey, I think you're ready to appeal", rather than the ones who refuse to accept they're responsible for their own behavior.

hmm... maybe it could be linked to whatever system they're working on for the next Tribunal iteration? Supposedly, they'll be including cases of good behavior, with a sort of "Kudos!" option instead of just the old Punish/Don't Punish options. Maybe the appeal could put a random sample of games on the alt account up, and an Overwhelming Majority Kudos vote allows the appeal through?

Reaper Review2 votes

{quoted}

No, you wouldn't have to do it at the earliest possible time, but people get impatient (Just look at the new players jumping into ranked as soon as they are Lvl 30 with 16 champions) and then complain they didn't get the results they wanted.

I suspect the best results would come from players who take the time to get feedback from players who can let them know "Hey, I think you're ready to appeal", rather than the ones who refuse to accept they're responsible for their own behavior.

hmm... maybe it could be linked to whatever system they're working on for the next Tribunal iteration? Supposedly, they'll be including cases of good behavior, with a sort of "Kudos!" option instead of just the old Punish/Don't Punish options. Maybe the appeal could put a random sample of games on the alt account up, and an Overwhelming Majority Kudos vote allows the appeal through?

If it could be integrated in that manner, that'd certainly be a good way to do it. We'd need to know more about how their new Tribunal works first, of course.

Getting feedback from other players is basically what I've been doing in my time hanging around PB board. That feedback is what's helped shape me into the better person I am now.

Reaper Review2 votes

I lost two more games last night on my new account. One of which I tried playing with some of my friends because they offered, but as I expected, being a relatively low-skill level 15 player against mainly level 30 players didn't pan out very well. The other I lost because blind pick is completely uncoordinated when nobody wants to talk in pre-game chat and I ended up having to be 'support' Ezreal because someone locked in Varus after I locked.

Six lost PVP matches at level 15 later and I'm progressed only about halfway to level 16. I keep turning back towards this appeal idea simply because, at this point, it's legitimately a more engaging endeavor than trying to conquer the pre-30 grind in my odd position.

I haven't completely given up on leveling my alt, I just need to do it sparingly so I don't risk losing my sanity from it...

Also, despite what some people want to tell me, Hextech Crafting does NOT help you gain content and make an account more enjoyable in any reasonable time-frame, considering I'm hard-pressed to get S ranks as it is on top of only owning three champions.

JackTheTripper2 votes

This is a great idea I must say. People are often complaining about how negative this game is when you are low levels. The reason it's so bad and toxic is because the said banned people just make new accounts and take all that anger out on the new players. Mean while the older players with their mains well past this mark don't even notice or care about the people who are just coming to this community. It's quite a funny circle but remember the toxic players will be back to 30 before you know it. Or and lets not forget they can just buy a level 30 account and come back to wreck games. The community should be thinking reform not banning. Reform is a much better choice, stop making the new players deal with the issue. Veterans should be the ones to help resolve the issue, not pass the buck down to the poor new players. To all of you that decline a reform system you are only wrecking the game we all love.

Powderkegg1 votes

Riot, back in 2010 I think, unbanned a number of permabanned players who they felt had a high chance of reforming and over 90% reoffended. I doubt there will be any process for appeal ever.

Reaper Review3 votes

{quoted}

Riot, back in 2010 I think, unbanned a number of permabanned players who they felt had a high chance of reforming and over 90% reoffended. I doubt there will be any process for appeal ever.

Isn't that the year this game was released? If the first and so far only test of something like this was THAT long ago, then that's all the more reason to consider a new test now.

Powderkegg1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=oInEsBOj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T17:26:29.621+0000)

Isn't that the year this game was released? If the first and so far only test of something like this was THAT long ago, then that's all the more reason to consider a new test now.

2009 was when it was released but I'm not exactly sure when they did the test. I'm sure you could find it somewhere on reddit though.

Kei1431 votes

personally, I'm ok with this. Infact its probably the most solid idea I've seen so far.

Although I'd go even further to argue that being neutral isn't enough. I'd like to see a positive influence on the community as well.

I think over a large number of games and a long period of time would work.

Reaper Review1 votes

{quoted}

personally, I'm ok with this. Infact its probably the most solid idea I've seen so far.

Although I'd go even further to argue that being neutral isn't enough. I'd like to see a positive influence on the community as well.

I think over a large number of games and a long period of time would work.

This seems like a good starting point. Would need to work out exact numbers, of course.

Astôlfo1 votes

I think the idea is a good one in concept. I'd probably only let permanent bans be appealed as such (so an automatic no to 14-day bans).

A wait time of at least 2-3 months would be good, considering 14-day bans is around half a month. The appeal section idea you have is good. I'd say they shouldn't have any more than a warning (like, not even a 5-chat restriction [tier 1] would be considered okay), and would need to be level 30. Minimum number of PVP games, I'd say around 200-400 maybe?

Placing them back at Tier 3 (Next punishment is perma) if they manage to get through everything would be good. However, if they get themselves permanently banned again after that, they should not be able to re-appeal. In all senses of the word, it should be their very last chance, after all the ones they've missed in the past. If they still can't shape up after being freed of their original perma, they do not deserve another chance after that.

Oh, you just mentioned that in your next point. And yes, I agree. If the appeal is rejected or they end up perma'd again, then they will stay that way.

However, I don't think just anyone should be able to decide, because a huge issue with the Tribunal is that it was also human-led. Which opens itself up to flaws from human negativity. After all, the Tribunal "Arbiters" may pass more bans subconsciously or intentionally if they have a bad day, or let more cases go if they're having a good one. Or, they might find it amusing to watch people being crushed of their hopes and just intentionally reject nearly everything.

I think if this were to happen, it should not apply retroactively, and it should be limited to a select group of people (Such as the Arbiters - although ofc, Rioters could step in at any time to overrule anything).

Reaper Review1 votes

{quoted}

snip

Thanks for the input.

Using the Arbiters for this would actually be a good idea, I think. They're already qualified as helpful Riot-approved individuals by virtue of their status.

The only thing I question is not applying it retroactively on top of the "wait period" before an appeal can be made. Wouldn't both of those together leave you with no way to actually test the system until several months after it opens? Anyone banned before it wouldn't be eligible, anyone banned after it would need to wait X months.

Astôlfo1 votes

To start it, example cases like yours would work, where you've basically gone through most of the steps.

Reaper Review1 votes

{quoted}

To start it, example cases like yours would work, where you've basically gone through most of the steps.

That other guy whose thread I linked (RawEchoes) would make a good example case as well, I think, seeing as he's returned after a year of being banned to discuss his own reform. I didn't want to nominate just myself specifically because I didn't want to look self-gratifying.

Kallian1 votes

you have my support, however i would add more steps into the process to make things absolutely unVolibearable that they understand that what they've done is wrong and not to do it again. but this is a 10/10 idea, i hope riot will consider it!

Reaper Review1 votes

Overall, I understand that it's a very conflicting idea, and both sides (for or against) have reasonable arguments.

While toxicity is something you can track easily using the existing systems, reform is more complicated than that. Just not being reported is only part of it, it's also important that a player understands their own mentality and how to prevent themselves from saying toxic things.

Basically, as far as an artificial system is concerned, actually solving the problem and just sweeping it under the rug are one in the same, when that shouldn't be the case.

scazzman1 votes

ive mentioned this before on some of my own posts the main problem with toxicity. is trolls will troll regadless. but they are allowed to trap players in a corner before they get banned. which in turn leads to ragers who are trying to stop. being unable to simply because of the sheer amount of provoking, taunting. and insults. if you put a million trolls in front of the same neutral player. based on simple probability alone. one of them will drive the neutral player over the edge. and rather than "walk away" borderline players are FORCED to stay in the game with that troll until a surrender vote passes or risk getting banned anyway regardless of whether they flamed or no. or when the game finally ends. where if they encountered that person irl. they could walk away from the situaton, or file a restraining order ect. if it was bad enough that they couldnt be ignored.

Reaper Review1 votes

Made some minor adjustments to my outline in the OP, based on Nep2une's thoughts.

I feel like it shows a lot of improvement and strong character for someone to truly reform after something as crushing as a permanent ban, and the fact that the only tangible "reward" for it is "the chance to spend a ton of money again to get the content you enjoy from a company you want to support". Yeah, you don't HAVE to spend money on a new account, but it's nice to support Riot if you like the game, which you clearly do if you bothered to reform yourself after the fact.

Like I said in another thread, we're not dealing with lawbreakers and important items being taken. It's just accounts in a video game.

Reaper Review1 votes

I haven't given up on this idea. I don't know why, considering it's unlikely to go anywhere, but eh.

AJStarhiker1 votes

Something else I've thought of that would need to be considered: making sure the alt account and the banned one are the same person. I could see some players buying a 'clean' account to try and sneak an appeal through.

Reaper Review1 votes

{quoted}

Something else I've thought of that would need to be considered: making sure the alt account and the banned one are the same person. I could see some players buying a 'clean' account to try and sneak an appeal through.

Having to provide proof that it's your own account should be easy enough, actually, using the same (or a similar) process Riot uses for Account Recovery tickets.

Reaper Review1 votes

I don't know, I just don't find "the chance to spend hundreds of dollars on skins you already spent money on once before" to be a particularly endearing incentive to reform after the fact.

I keep seeing threads with people saying they're just going to feed and ruin games for other people because they're angry at Riot. It makes me sick knowing that for all my attempts to show a positive change in attitude, I don't have it any easier than they do.

I want to feel like there's a tangible point to all this effort I've put in that doesn't end in me spending a lot of money. (I'm well aware that you don't have to spend money in this game, but what can I say, I like skins. I even bought DJ Sona twice, one for me and one for a friend.)

I don't like harassing/flaming/shading other players. That's not something I take pleasure in. The game that I find joy in is one where I have a wide selection of champions and can play who I feel like playing, while other players have fun as well. That joy is just so far off from where I am now, though, while the people who swear revenge on the system can do what they want right from the get-go.

Reaper Review1 votes

I've been thinking lately, maybe instead of unbanning an old account wholesale, a player could at least earn back the stuff bought with IP on their old account.

They can keep the skins and stuff, so being banned still has punch to it. Just the idea of grinding out a ton of champions, runes, and rune pages again is extremely bothersome and a great way to make me not want to play anymore.

I'd actually be more than happy to spend money again, but like I said, I want to buy fun extras, not champions...

themachamp1 votes

Meh, once the game has peaked and started to die down they will probably pull a blizzard and allow player to purchase back their dead accounts. At the end of the day( esp since riot was sold to a chinese company) $$$ will override any decision made by the player behavioral team.

Reaper Review1 votes

{quoted}

Meh, once the game has peaked and started to die down they will probably pull a blizzard and allow player to purchase back their dead accounts. At the end of the day( esp since riot was sold to a chinese company) $$$ will override any decision made by the player behavioral team.

If that did happen, it wouldn't be for quite a while. This game's got a lot of steam left in it, even with some of Riot's more questionable decisions.

I wouldn't want the option to just buy back an account, though. What I want is for people who were banned (by the community, by proxy) to be able to earn a second chance if they demonstrate (to the same community that banned them) that they've learned better.

"Three chances" is frankly a bit of a joke. As has been said a few times now, chat bans don't really accomplish anything, and if you reach the 14-day ban stage, you're very likely to just be permanently banned while trying to recover, because you have so little room for error over such a long stretch of time.

Reaper Review1 votes

I really have nothing more to add here. If Riot's going to keep my account around anyway for marketing purposes or whatever, I really feel like I should be able to have a shot at earning back access to it.

"But Reaper, they don't want to give toxic players an incentive to make new accounts."

Yeah, that logic's already been proven to be faulty more than once, if the threads I've seen of people declaring intent to troll in revenge for their bans are any indication.

I don't think a system like this has any legitimate downsides as long as it's properly handled, and can give people a new lease on life, in a manner of speaking.

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