Bring Back Tribunal

WHO U TESTIN·4/20/2019, 6:48:33 AM·20 votes·5,320 views

We cannot seriously think these bots are worth the hassle. The bot will ban people if they're just generally unlikable not even toxic just blunt or abrasive. And yes, I know what toxic is by definition as I have read all the rules and regulations regarding player communication in League of Legends. The worst part is, if one of the games that the bot banned on would even be considered on the fringe of toxic, then Riot will stand behind this automated Gustapo and will ignore their own Terms of Service which is beyond disgusting. Bring back tribunal so real humans can see and comprehend real situations. And stop forcing people to take your bot survey in order to talk to a real person, We should be able to talk to a real person as we are real people and we give Riot real money.

Edit: I got permanently banned on my account I've had for 5 years with almost 500 skins probably over 2,000 dollars spent. I would love to send chat logs but it's too long as it's 4 games worth. I believe my main problem is I use 3 messages for one sentence as I'm trying to play the game and tell people what they're doing wrong. I can tell you I got reported in 5 of my last 20 games and that got me perma'd. 5 in 20 games doesn't seem that bad at all considering most games playing jungle you get flamed by 4 people and told they're gonna report you every time you lose.

52 Comments

mylittlep0wnee4/20/2019, 6:58:24 AM9 votes

I just posted my experience.. I'm sure the person was gaming the Chat monitor AI while being very foul at the same time. Maybe have an AI system do a 1st pass, if guilty - give out the punishment if not guilty - send to a tribunal for a secondary review.

toxic bastard4/20/2019, 7:12:14 AM7 votes

Don't be toxic! BE like me [sg-soraka]

DyingFire4/20/2019, 7:12:43 AM7 votes

If you read this and agree upvote don't let riot use their bots to not only ban our accounts but also downvote our legitimate concerns

WHO U TESTIN4/20/2019, 6:51:24 AM6 votes

[deleted]

Umbral Regent4/20/2019, 7:38:53 AM6 votes

We cannot seriously think these bots are worth the hassle.

I'll get back to this in a moment, but let me just point out that, looking at it holistically, the IFS will always come up preferable over the Tribunal, every day of the week.

The bot will ban people if they're just generally unlikable not even toxic just blunt or abrasive.

And do you have any evidence for this? Because a claim without evidence to support it is largely pointless.

The worst part is, if one of the games that the bot banned on would even be considered on the fringe of toxic, then Riot will stand behind this automated Gustapo and will ignore their own Terms of Service which is beyond disgusting.

First of all, you mispelled "gestapo", and second, trying to make sociopolitical comments about stuff is a pretty good way to get a discussion closed early. Especially ones with the implications you're making.

In other words, please read the Boards Universal Rules before making comments like that. For your sake, if nobody else's.

Beyond that, of course Riot is going to stand by the punishment system when it comes to correctly placed punishments, and I don't get why you're vaguely referring to them "ignoring their own ToS". The IFS works in-line with their ToS. What's there to ignore?

Bring back tribunal so real humans can see and comprehend real situations.

See, here's the problem; you're looking at the Tribunal with rose-tinted glasses, thinking that having the ability to have direct human input on punishments would somehow magically make the system better. It'd certainly feel better to a degree, but the fact of the matter is, it would drastically reduce the effectiveness of the system in actually delivering punishments.

The Tribunal was iceboxed because it was slow, inefficient, and couldn't be incentivized without radically skewing the verdicts on cases. Couple that with the playerbase exploding into the millions, and you have a system that is just too outdated to function.

So let's look at those drawbacks. To start with, it was inefficient; in a smaller, more tightly-knit community, a community-based judicial system would be feasible, but as the playerbase increased, the amount of people playing compared to the amount of people voting in the Tribunal started to stack disproportionately. If efficiency were to be measured in people vs. cases, having a measure of around 200:10,000 is a pretty bad system overall. That's too many cases for too few people to handle, and that's not even meant to be accurate in relation to the Tribunal.

And, of course, with crap efficiency comes crap speed; with so many games being played and so few people actually handling Tribunal duty, punishments would often get doled out months after the offense had already passed, where the punishment just gets brought up out of the blue for something the offending player likely doesn't remember.

And then you have the problem of trying to counterbalance that disproportionate ratio of Tribunal members to Tribunal cases, where in comes incentives. And what happens when you place an incentive on something is that people will tend to look towards that incentive in such a singular manner, that they ignore the process of getting to it altogether; I.E, simply voting to "punish" on cases to get free Influence Points. That incentive was pretty quickly reversed.

So, all told, the Tribunal System was quickly becoming useless, and Riot needed something to actually punish players to improve player retention. Enter the IFS. Taking data from the Tribunal, Riot created a machine-learning system to read and punish players behavior in accordance with the community's feedback and the rules of the game. It was made to be faster, more efficient, and largely less reliant on player input to operate, and it accomplishes all three of those things in spades.

(Note; I say "largely" here because it still requires player input in the smallest degree; reports to trigger a review. No report = no review = no problem, both in the perception of the player and in the IFS.)

So, unless you can somehow rectify those issues that got the Tribunal iceboxed in the first place (and also give a really compelling reason to step down from using the IFS), the IFS is here to stay until Riot develops something that improves on it.

And stop forcing people to take your bot survey in order to talk to a real person, We should be able to talk to a real person as we are real people and we give Riot real money.

I'm going to assume this refers to Blitzcrank Bot; look, dude, Riot Support Agents are people, and they don't have infinite hours in a day to handle every individual request that comes up. Yes, you should be able to talk to a real person, "should" doesn't mean it's universally feasible.

Also, why is permanent muting not a thing? if I am toxic and you perma mute me I'll just forget that I ever could type in chat or even if I didnt I wouldnt be able to. Amazing!

Permanent chat muting isn't a thing because it doesn't work. Toxic people will continue to be toxic even in the absence of chat; and the only avenue left for toxicity without chat is gameplay toxicity. So, do you really want an uptick of trolls and intentional feeders in exchange for a personally satisfying band-aid solution to a problem that you should realistically solve yourself?

radetari4/20/2019, 5:02:39 PM4 votes

I would actually remove the report function entirely, and make all reports to be done through the support page with the proof of your claims so you dont look like an abuser of the system just cuz u dont like someone

but thats just my opinion

Sukishoo4/21/2019, 2:56:10 AM2 votes

You mean that thing that wasn't actually very useful? The thing where you could sit there and either press to "agree" or disagree" for a punishment? Yeah no. It was so much more inaccurate than anything they have made since then.

I honestly know people that would sit there and just click through things randomly and not even read most of them.

Inkling Commando4/20/2019, 8:25:09 AM2 votes

i wasn't around during Tribunal days but i do agree that the bot is a bit to...sensitive. so instead of the bot there should be a team of 3 real people to review games that get flagged. they will review everything in the game (chat logs, gameplay behavior, etc) and then come to an agreement on the verdict for the player in question. if the player is not guilty then nothing happens. if the player is guilty then a proper and fair punishment is dealt. (flaming in chat? chat restriction or even a force mute. running it down mid or inting? suspension or ban. any ZTP? instant 14 day or even perma ban.). having this "wise men" system is good for many reasons. 1: it shows that riot actually cares about us 2: it does not take many people to utilize and little maintenance. 3: it allows every humane thing to influence the decision (common sense, logic, fairness,) 4: depending on quickly the "3 wise men" can come to a fair and logical decision several cases can get reviewed and settled.

xM4mh24/20/2019, 3:19:14 PM2 votes

I think the community would appreciate some transparency on Riot's end. How exactly does the IFS work? What does it detect? Are we notified every time the system issues punishment, or only sometimes? Does it take into account pre-game and post-game chat, or only in-game chat? How about griefing via pings? How many reports does it take for the system to do something about a player's behavior? Are all reports seen as equal, no matter how serious the offense?

I don't think I was around for the Tribunal, but it's a system that everyone can understand: real people look at a situation, judge it based on what they see, and they decide whether or not someone is guilty. The IFS, on the other hand, is a bit more mysterious. We have a general idea of what it's supposed to do at best. It's hard to put faith in a system you don't fully understand.

AeroWaffle4/20/2019, 4:02:40 PM2 votes

The fact that it would be impossible to get enough staff to manually review every report excludes the possibility of leaving the entire system to manual review.

Unless you just want people to not get punished no matter how poor they act in a game.