Why is the community so toxic?

PDE5 Inhib·Mar 23, 2016·7 votes·8,618 views

Probably because you can have a Ryze go 0-60-2 (average 0-30 over his last 100 games) without punishment, yet it is punishable to ask the enemy team to report this player.

27 Comments

Maximum MordeMar 23, 20166 votes

Because this generation spent too much time getting participation trophies instead of getting their ass beat for misbehaving as children.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20162 votes

The people typically bitching about "this generation" are the ones who raised it :D

Maximum MordeMar 23, 20164 votes

True story. Our parents have nobody to blame but themselves. Doesn't change the truth though.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20163 votes

What I especially love is when they say, "our economic troubles are the result of this self entitled generation."

Yea, please explain how my generations 4 years of being legal adults (and most of our generation still is school) is the cause of our country's problems lol. It's comical at best and scary at worse (scary because Faux New actually has people believing the Pope is the most dangerous man on the planet).

Maximum MordeMar 23, 20163 votes

Yes, clearly the economic situation is the fault of millenials, and not the fault of the previous generations that exported tons of careers overseas, and exploited loopholes for short terms gains while reducing long term stability. That was totally my fault for setting that ball in motion when I was in second grade. I should never have chosen to color that dog blue. I've ruined America.

All that said, we do still bear the burden of accountability for our own behavior. The starting point we've been handed, nobody can do anything about that. We have to step up and create what we want to be a part of.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20163 votes

Yes, curse you and your stupid "political correctness".

Maximum MordeMar 23, 20163 votes

Now, I feel like I have a couple things to say about your initial post. It's punishable to complain and whine because those are undesirable behaviors. Just like his feeding is an undesirable behavior. I know it sucks to be with those guys, but they do eventually get banned as long as people keep reporting them. I know cause my buddy who intentionally throws matches if he doesn't get his way has had multiple bans already.

With regard to correcting behavior, many studies show that rehabilitation doesn't work, at least in US populations. Most folks that cease their negative behavior do so on their own, aging out of crime so to speak. Rehabilitation tends to have an impact only at the very early stages. To put that in League terms, if we try to correct someone early on in their path to getting banned, like when they are still just having minor emotional outbursts in chat, we are more likely to be able to correct it and put them back on the path to being a healthy member of the community. By the same token, past behavior is our best indicator of future behavior. If they haven't reformed after a couple tries, statistically, they aren't going to do so.

As someone who studies Criminology, I actually think the system Riot has in place is pretty decent from a design standpoint. The only place I find it lacking is speed. For punishment to be effective it must be swift, certain, and severe.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20162 votes

It's punishable to complain and whine

Understood. But personally, I don't think, "please report our Ryze for intentionally feeding, thanks" is complaining or whining. And that statement word for word is punishable.

but they do eventually get banned as long as people keep reporting them. I know cause my buddy who intentionally throws matches if he doesn't get his way has had multiple bans already.

Did your friend use chat so say he was going to intentionally lose because he didn't get his way? The few cases I see of players getting punished for intentionally losing are ones that also are negative in chat with comments like, "report me idc you suck so im trolling now". And even then, I've reported multiple people for saying things like that only to see their OP.GG is still registering ranked matches long after I've gotten bored of checking. In the case of this Ryze, what is eventually? 500 games of going 0-42-1? Any objective/unbiased person can look at his match history on League's site and conclude he is doing it on purpose. It would take 2 mins.

With regard to correcting behavior [snip]

Agreed. I will say, however, that they can have these intentional feeders "reform" in normal games. Just ban them from ranked. If they don't stop doing it, then you can take further actions. If they were as quick to punish someone for going 0-30-1 as they were for someone telling the 0-30-1 person to fuck off, you wouldn't have as big of a "toxicity" issue. To be clear, I think both actions are bad. I just think the one is not being punished nearly hard enough, which is leading to a massive increase in the other. It's my opinion that until they actually address the issues, they will not fix their "toxicity" problem. Lyte has been at this "I'm going to ban people that say bad words and change the font color of the loading screen to fix toxicity!" idea for 3 seasons now...it's not working, and it's pretty obvious why it isn't working. Sure, you can replace 15 flat tires on your car...but until you realize you're getting flat tires because you spilled a box of nails on the floor, you're going to continue to get flat tires.

This is also why I like things like the hextech crafting. It actually promotes good behavior since you can only get it for being good lol (ribbons were dumb so they don't count lol).

I actually think the system Riot has in place is pretty decent from a design standpoint.

Design standpoint isn't bad. Execution is where the problem is. And really only execution on half of the issue, since they are pretty good on getting the flaming 12 year olds.

Maximum MordeMar 23, 20162 votes

Nah, he wasn't saying anything in chat, we only spoke in voice comms to each other and never the team. It took him longer than it should have to get his perma, well over a month. I wonder if people are just so mad and quick to leave the lobbies with these folks that they forget to report them first.

I actually do think that asking for reports is whining. It's annoying and I don't want to read it in chat. There is no need for me to report when that person can just do it themself. It just reminds me of gradeschool tattling. Some people aren't going to agree with that assessment, but for now at least it is Riots stance as well from what we can tell of their system.

It's much easier for a machine to review chat for key words/phrases than it is to differentiate intentional feeding from bad decision making or throwing. With chat, the algorithm is pretty much never going to be wrong. The words are there or they aren't. You and I can easily look at a behavior and determine which is which. A machine has a more difficult time. I know for a fact that a computer algorithm can determine that a set of games is fishy within a given margin of error, but I suspect Riot has that margin of error set pretty strictly to minimize false bans. That means that it takes more evidence and quite a bit longer to get the deserved punishment.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20162 votes

With chat, the algorithm is prettt much never going to be wrong. The words are there or they aren't. You and I can easily look at a behavior and determine which is which. A machine has a more difficult time

Yes and no. Context matters. Saying "fuck" as an insult to a person is bad. Saying "fuck" after you fuck up yourself is not. Rito has stated that swearing by itself isn't bad. So just looking for key words can flag an account, but it can't determine context. That's why rito claims that all their punishments are handled by actual people. My suggestion is to have people look at games reported for intentionally feeding as well. Can't imagine that it would take too long since they already have people supposedly looking at these games. Over reporting can be an issue, but you lower their report values after false ones. So then a game isn't flagged just because one low value person reported someone.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

And just wait for the influx of level 16 players into ranked with the new XP system. I'm sure that's going to help their "toxicity" problem lol.

DragfinMar 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=n1YPZhWi,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-03-23T12:20:35.432+0000)

Because this generation spent too much time getting participation trophies instead of getting their ass beat for misbehaving as children.

This 100 times.

Troll ArmadaMar 23, 20162 votes

I blame Obama and the common core.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20162 votes

Totally. The 8 year olds learning common core are the reasons behind everything bad. #stupidfauxnewsbusinessmajorlogic

Troll ArmadaMar 23, 20161 votes

a broken clock is still right twice a day spanky.

http://www.rappers.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/flavaflav-11.jpg

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20162 votes

True, but I'm not sure how that relates to this?

lolptwoMar 23, 20165 votes

To Try and keep it short and simple for you. Couple reasons.

First: You explain part of it in your post. A Broken Tribunal system that treats root cause issues the same as consequences of those root cause issues.

For ex: You have 1 player being extremely passive aggressive/toxic and he causes 3 other non-toxic players to be toxic. He is treated the same weight and given the same chances as the other players even though he is clearly the root cause.

Second: Cyber Generation, this is a huge topic I won't go into. If you're interested go read up on Sociology and the difference of this crude/unintelligent generation of kids who really are used to having no consequences for their words online.

Third: The nature of this game is teamwork. Mobas tend to be toxic because your personal stats are at risk from someone who doesn't care about the game at all.

Fourth: Passive aggressive trolling is extremely difficult to catch and oftentimes ignores, it's really easy to figure out clever ways to avoid the banning system and still be incredibly toxic.

and Finally Fifth: It's a free to play game. You have backwood imbred 12 year olds playing with University Master student 26yr olds. The game itself is amazing and everyone wants to play but the community is extremely diverse and like IRL personalities that shouldnt be in the same room together, are and they clash.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

To Try and keep it short and simple for you. Couple reasons.

First: You explain part of it in your post. A Broken Tribunal system that treats root cause issues the same as consequences of those root cause issues.

My argument is that they don't treat issues the same as consequences. If they treated the issues, I don't think we would have anywhere near the amount of consequences.

For ex: You have 1 player being extremely passive aggressive/toxic and he causes 3 other non-toxic players to be toxic. He is treated the same weight and given the same chances as the other players even though he is clearly the root cause.

Exactly. You have 1 Ryze player going 0-30 in 300 games. Probably caused MANY normally neutral players to be toxic and get a chat ban for it. Yet, the Ryze gets nothing.

Second: Cyber Generation, this is a huge topic I won't go into. If you're interested go read up on Sociology and the difference of this crude/unintelligent generation of kids who really are used to having no consequences for their words online.

See, I don't really think this is that big of an issue. The very crude people are rightfully banned very quickly. I think rito has taken it too far, though, and catered to the "my feelings got hurt cuz he called me a troll when I was 0-30" players. There is a difference between being being overly sensitive and someone actually being a dick, and I think rito has lost that difference.

Third: The nature of this game is teamwork. Mobas tend to be toxic because your personal stats are at risk from someone who doesn't care about the game at all.

Yup. Ranked isn't for everyone. But that's an issue of complete opinion and one that probably couldn't be addressed. They could, however, implement a couple very simple strategies to help alleviate this problem though. One simple example is making it so that you cannot play a champ in ranked that you've never played before. Just things like that would go a long way in helping the competitive nature of ranked, without dicking anyone.

Fourth: Passive aggressive trolling is extremely difficult to catch and oftentimes ignores, it's really easy to figure out clever ways to avoid the banning system and still be incredibly toxic.

And this is where the mute button comes in lol. It also can be caught, but would require more monitoring. I mean, rito claims that every one of their punishments is already done by a human and not a "robot system", so I think if they were to implement that system to other reports beside flamers, they could see improvements. Right now, they just don't take the time to see the guy that sits in the jungle intentionally throwing because "his jungle didn't give him blue".

and Finally Fifth: It's a free to play game. You have backwood imbred 12 year olds playing with University Master student 26yr olds. The game itself is amazing and everyone wants to play but the community is extremely diverse and like IRL personalities that shouldnt be in the same room together, are and they clash.

Agree. There's no issues with mixing different/contrasting personalities between level minded people. The problem arises when you allow people to play have personalities that can't be mixed with anyone lol.

RAT IN GAME UwU Mar 23, 20162 votes

because things never change, there's no growth anywhere, and the ranking system is terrible, every game there's some guy / girl who clearly doesn't care about the outcome of the game, doesn't practice, isn't where they belong, but Riot put them there for some reason. and it's not just a bad game, if every game of league ever played has someone having a bad game in it, there's something wrong with the game.

I want to play with better players as I improve, not go from bronze 1 to gold 1 over a year's time and have literally the same quality players sprinkled throughout every few games, there's no consistency, and that's what makes me personally toxic

yes I am a toxic player at times, and I have stopped playing the game by about 90% over the past few months because I'm tired of how much I hate the people i'm playing with despite loving the actual game.

I've stopped viewing people in the community as people i can work with and more as obstacles in my way, often times i feel like the games are a 1 v 9 because some of the teammates i get are either so grossly underskilled or have bad attitudes and give up after a few minutes in.

No flash no lifeMar 24, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=n1YPZhWi,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-23T12:18:14.648+0000)

yet it is punishable to ask the enemy team to report this player.

Because it is the wrong approach. When you catch a kid stealing you want to punish him and teach him a lesson so this young fellow would never do it again, but that doesn't mean you'd hack news channel to broadcast it to the rest of the world and post this on facebook so this kid would be socially devastated for life. I know these 2 cases aren't similar at all, but my point is just because he broke the rules doesn't mean you're allowed to retaliate in a way that breaks the rules. Just report him, take a screenshot, file in support ticket and ask why such a player has gone on without caught for so long while expressing your frustration at riot's detecting system.

vOmvbrawfUApr 10, 20171 votes

Uh, have you never heard of the police blotter?

J E B A ł T E DMar 23, 20161 votes

Your recent games show nothing of the sort. You're either making this all up or you're posting on your smurf, both of which give you no merit. If this actually happened, I'm guessing you got punished because you not only asked the enemy team to report him, but you took it upon yourself to flame him, both of which are unsportsmanlike and therefore against the rules.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20162 votes

Actually I'm posting from someone else's experience with this Ryze. I would link you the OP.GG to the summoner, but that is against the rules for "naming and shaming".

No, I'm not chat restricted. Or banned. Or suspended. Or anything. But it is literally against the rules to ask for reports on a trolling player that receives no punishment, so thanks for verifying my point.

People like you are the reason the community isn't going to get any less "toxic" :)

Natsuki ChanMar 23, 20161 votes

The same question on why do people think Donald Trump can make America great again when he can't.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20162 votes

Well that's just because Faux news preys on the uneducated of the country. They use fear to tell them something knowing that they won't be intelligent enough to look it up on their own. Result is that you have half the country thinking republicans are trying to help veterans and that they are poor because of the 38cents total out of their paycheck going to foodstamps.

HaRRiSBSApr 11, 20171 votes

There's absolutely noting wrong with being toxic. It is a part of the game. Competitive spirit. If you are that sensitive over the internet I suggest seeing a doctor.