Boards›Player Behavior

Nothing Is Yours

rtbf23602824··2 votes·2,613 views

Do NOT spend money on this game. As it is free-to-play, only do so. Per the terms of the user agreement--which even law school contracts professors don't read--Riot owns your account and all the time and money you have poured into it. When Riot gives you a notification that your account is valuable they are not being less than truthful. Your account is very valuable, to them. It has no value to you and is a worse investment than a new car. After making an addictive game and funneling otherwise frugal players toward it by labeling it free-to-play, Riot betrayed their consumers' trust by flooding the game with microtransactions and loot. There are players who have spent thousands of dollars only to lose their account--and money--for violating Riot's imaginary "rules." There are players who have spent thousands of dollars trying to get specific skins through random purchases and when they get close to owning the skins they want, Riot stops them from making more random skin purchases. And then there is the largest group of players of all, those who have spent hundreds or thousands of hours of their lives that they will never get back playing a game made by a company that doesn't even care about the game anymore. And the worst part is that Riot will never face the class-action lawsuit it so deserves because hidden away in the user agreement is an arbitration clause.

29 Comments

Kaioko14 votes

Read any terms of service on any online game you play -- they are all the same. You've got no grounds for lawsuit and honestly the entire post is completely childish.

Umbral Regent11 votes

Do NOT spend money on this game.

Make me.

It has no value to you and is a worse investment than a new car.

Everyone assigns their own value to things. You may not find a League of Legends account valuable, and that's just your deal.

Riot betrayed their consumers' trust by flooding the game with microtransactions and loot.

I dunno how completely optional microtransactions harms trust. The same goes for loot, it's completely optional, and loot can be completely free.

Then again, I actually have the capacity to trust a company.

There are players who have spent thousands of dollars only to lose their account--and money--for violating Riot's imaginary "rules."

What's so imaginary about them? They're clearly outlined in the Terms of Use, and they can easily be summarized with "don't be a dick".

Is it genuinely that hard to not be a dick?

...made by a company that doesn't even care about the game anymore.

Y'know, it's hard to believe that they don't care when they're working on the game near-constantly. Like, every two or three weeks there's a new update. And it's been going on for, what...eight plus years, now?

But, sure. They don't care. We know they don't care, because you, a random player not affiliated with the company, said so.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

Why do I bother replying when there are gems like this already in the comments? No sarcasm, I'm being serious. You rocked that sassaphone!

VorpalKitsune2 votes

I love your use of Sassaphone, made your comment to an already great comment that much better. :)

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Thanks!

VorpalKitsune2 votes

You are very welcome!!!

Rayjay Redfang7 votes

If you don't read the terms of service that is your own fault. It isn't hidden anywhere it plainly states that you don't own the skins or champions,they are unlocked to use. Also not following the player behavior is your own fault. It isn't hard really.

HalcyonDweller6 votes

{quoted}

Do NOT spend money on this game. As it is free-to-play, only do so.

Who are you to tell me what I can or cannot do with my account on this game? I'm well aware of the terms and conditions, and if I still feel like spending money on the game then I damn well will.

Edit: and good luck with that court case. I can't wait to see what the judge/jury/mediator thinks of you (or other players) who want their accounts back after it becomes apparent that they used hate-speech and told other players to kill themselves.

muramasamune1 votes

It's a common misconception that only players that say "kys" or hate-speech get permabanned. You can lose your literally $500 account because you said things even as tame as "trash" or "you're not playing well". I've seen multiple posts on the player behavior boards and Reddit of peoe getting banned from defending yourself again harassment. The automated system is not working well because if 4 people think you're inting for having a bad game and report you, you can still get banned.

It's easy way for Riot to make some extra cash, because now these users just have to get a new account. Permanent banning is ridiculous in a free to play game where every player can just make a new account for free. The problem is that I know multiple people that get more toxic after being banned, because they have to level up to 30 again. But they will do it anyways.

I think even someone at Riot said before that most people who get banned just make a new account. League is definitely losing popularity this year, especially with BR games taking over. This just means Riot can milk more whales.

Toxic people should be punished, but permanent ban is more of a fine than a punishment. And the young people who play this game don't have the money to pay these fines, that's why fines are usually for adults only. Other people have posted better options like queuing toxic people together like other newer games do.

SnyperWulff2 votes

{quoted}

It's a common misconception that only players that say "kys" or hate-speech get permabanned. You can lose your literally $500 account because you said things even as tame as "trash" or "you're not playing well". I've seen multiple posts on the player behavior boards and Reddit of peoe getting banned from defending yourself again harassment. The automated system is not working well because if 4 people think you're inting for having a bad game and report you, you can still get banned.

It's easy way for Riot to make some extra cash, because now these users just have to get a new account. Permanent banning is ridiculous in a free to play game where every player can just make a new account for free. The problem is that I know multiple people that get more toxic after being banned, because they have to level up to 30 again. But they will do it anyways.

I think even someone at Riot said before that most people who get banned just make a new account. League is definitely losing popularity this year, especially with BR games taking over. This just means Riot can milk more whales.

Toxic people should be punished, but permanent ban is more of a fine than a punishment. And the young people who play this game don't have the money to pay these fines, that's why fines are usually for adults only. Other people have posted better options like queuing toxic people together like other newer games do.

Simple fix to all of it, stop being toxic, it's seriously not that hard to do. Permabanning is fine, if you get hit with it, oh well, shouldn't have been a toxic asshat.

muramasamune1 votes

Yeah duh, but my point is that there is a better punishment that would keep more toxic players out of good player's games. Sure permabanning gets the job done, but it's like saying you agree with the death penalty or vs life imprisonment. Both accomplish the same goal, but they are both different debatable ways of punishment. I'm simply saying there is a better way to punish offenders.

The example I like the most is forcing toxic/afkers to play in the same queues. The trick is that most people would have no idea if this was happening to them or no proof either, so they wouldn't make a new account.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

You obviously have no idea how things work. I suggest you educate yourself before you go around spreading misinformation any further. Here's a starting point:

{quoted}

It's a common misconception that only players that say "kys" or hate-speech get permabanned. You can lose your literally $500 account because you said things even as tame as "trash" or "you're not playing well". I've seen multiple posts on the player behavior boards and Reddit of peoe getting banned from defending yourself again harassment. The automated system is not working well because if 4 people think you're inting for having a bad game and report you, you can still get banned.

I'm sorry, what? Since when was telling someone that they are playing poorly or calling them trash "defending oneself?" No dude, you get punished for consistent or severe behavior, not for one-off minor offenses. And that's not how it fucking works, teammates ganging up on you to report you doesn't do ANYTHING to change how the system reviews you. One report or nine, it won't matter because all that the reports do is tell the system that your gameplay should be reviewed. The system ignores the reports after it decides to review you, and it just judges you based on your own behavior in that game, not based on how many reports you had that game.

It's easy way for Riot to make some extra cash, because now these users just have to get a new account. Permanent banning is ridiculous in a free to play game where every player can just make a new account for free. The problem is that I know multiple people that get more toxic after being banned, because they have to level up to 30 again. But they will do it anyways.

I think even someone at Riot said before that most people who get banned just make a new account. League is definitely losing popularity this year, especially with BR games taking over. This just means Riot can milk more whales.

You shouldn't just assume that Riot's only reason for banning players is a cash grab. It's way too convenient for players who have been banned and don't want to take responsibility for their choices and actions.

Toxic people should be punished, but permanent ban is more of a fine than a punishment. And the young people who play this game don't have the money to pay these fines, that's why fines are usually for adults only. Other people have posted better options like queuing toxic people together like other newer games do.

The game is free to play, there's no obligation to spend money to be able to participate. A person can make a new account if they choose to, and they don't need money to make use of that account. It's not a fine at all. We get use of the content we pay for as long as we follow the rules, break the rules too many times and we lose access to that. It's morally upstanding, as far as ideals go.

muramasamune1 votes

Like I said. COMMON misconception. If you dive deeper into some of the posts on the boards and Reddit you can find clear cases of exactly what I'm talking about, it's just that most people are too lazy to do the research and they assume wrong.

Also, as I replied to the other guy, why cant Riot just use a better system to accomplish the same goal?

Don't you want less toxic people in your games? Like I said, other newer gaming companies have better ideas on how to accomplish this. Just like forcing toxic players to play with other toxics or afkers. The trick is that most people don't realize what's happening to them and so won't make a new account.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

Like I said. COMMON misconception. If you dive deeper into some of the posts on the boards and Reddit you can find clear cases of exactly what I'm talking about, it's just that most people are too lazy to do the research and they assume wrong.

Oh THAT'S what you were saying? That people get banned for less than saying "KYS?"

We already knew that people get permabanned for less severe things than saying "kys" and using hate speech. There is no misconception. People here already know that being mildly toxic over time can land you with the same account punishments as someone who makes death threats against others.

That's because Riot expects players to learn from their chat restrictions and subsequent 14-day ban that their less severe toxic behavior is still not okay. If they continue to exhibit mildly toxic behavior, it still hurts others. Having not heeded the warnings, they get banned because Riot sees that as a sign that the player will not be willing to adapt and improve themselves to stop hurting others.

Also, claiming that you are right just because other people are too lazy to try and prove you wrong is the silliest thing I've read all week. Don't shift the burden of proof, this is a discussion. Facts and reason matter. if you wish to persuade people that you are right, then you had better be ready to prove it - rather than simply saying, "well people are just lazy so of course they don't believe me." That's not persuasive. At all. Be better than that.

Also you ignored my points from the prior comment so I've included them again below with some edits made for clarity:

"Since when was telling someone that they are playing poorly or calling them trash counted as defending oneself?"

"No dude, you get punished for consistent or severe behavior, not for one-off minor offenses."

"That's not how it works, teammates ganging up on you to report you doesn't do ANYTHING to change how the system reviews you. One report or nine, it won't matter because all that the reports do is tell the system that your gameplay should be reviewed. The system ignores the reports after it decides to review you, and it just judges you based on your own behavior in that game, not based on how many reports you had that game."

Also, as I replied to the other guy, why cant Riot just use a better system to accomplish the same goal?

I'm onboard with creating a better system. I've advocated for it numerous times myself. How to go about creating this 'better system' is entirely up for debate though...

Don't you want less toxic people in your games? Like I said, other newer gaming companies have better ideas on how to accomplish this. Just like forcing toxic players to play with other toxics or afkers. The trick is that most people don't realize what's happening to them and so won't make a new account.

Prisoner's Island is not a new idea. Riot has considered and rejected it already, many years ago. Such a 'solution' has been shown to make everything worse - not all players who wind up punished are people who would normally be toxic, and many of them don't want to play in a toxic environment. They suffer and become even more toxic from being forced to play in a worse environment.

This sort of 'solution' lumps together players who have tough skins and want that environment with players who don't want that environment, but who have been toxic in response to other players being toxic towards them. These two types of players are not one and the same.

And doing it 'secretly' is the shadiest fucking thing I've ever heard suggested. It's ethically unsound. Any game company that implements that sort of thing is morally bankrupt.

I would much rather Riot create an alternate queue that people who have thick skins could have the choice to opt into playing, with the knowledge that while in that queue, verbal abuse will be ignored rather than punished. That way Riot could re-vamp the punishment system in the regular queues - Because people would have a choice between playing in the thick-skin queue or the sportsmanlike queue and choosing to bring toxic behavior into the sportsmanlike queue could be more heavily punished. Forcing players to play in one queue or the other (especially without their knowledge) would be completely unacceptable though.

Mcsquzzy5 votes

Failure to read something you agreed to, then wanting to sue. Is not a solid case unless the contract itself breaks the law. Which this one doesn't.

RallerenP4 votes

Do NOT spend money on this game. As it is free-to-play, only do so. Per the terms of the user agreement--which even law school contracts professors don't read--Riot owns your account and all the time and money you have poured into it.

And so?

That's very common knowledge, and is the standard for most online goods.

That 'nearly everyone' doesn't read the ToS isn't an excuse, as each person has to agree that they read it. You can't really verify it more without making huge sacrifices to the user experience.

Your ignorance about the ToS isn't an excuse. It's not Riot's fault that you read the (very readable mind you) terms. They aren't even hiding it behind large words and confusing language, they are stating it simply:

(No. What you “unlock” is not the virtual good itself, but rather, a qualified right to access it in the Game.)

It cannot be said more simple than that.

When Riot gives you a notification that your account is valuable they are not being less than truthful. Your account is very valuable, to them. It has no value to you and is a worse investment than a new car.

Of course. They can't speak for you. You account is valuable to them, and they aren't claiming otherwise.

And a new car can be a fine investment.

After making an addictive game and funneling otherwise frugal players toward it by labeling it free-to-play, Riot betrayed their consumers' trust by flooding the game with microtransactions and loot.

Ooooh, the thing they've always had from since the beginning? And the so-called frugal players just won't buy anything from Riot. It's still VERY MUCH free to play. You get free skins, free champions and none of the things you can buy for real money gives you an advantage. (Maybe with the exception of new rune pages, but the advantage is very minor)

There are players who have spent thousands of dollars only to lose their account--and money--for violating Riot's imaginary "rules."

The rules exist, otherwise no one would have been banned for them. So they aren't imaginary.

There are players who have spent thousands of dollars trying to get specific skins through random purchases and when they get close to owning the skins they want, Riot stops them from making more random skin purchases.

You missed a point:

There are players who have spent thousands of dollars trying to get specific skins through random purchases, some of these players break the very easy to understand rules that the agreed to, and expect to be able to get the skins they want.

Doens't really seem so unfair now.

And then there is the largest group of players of all, those who have spent hundreds or thousands of hours of their lives that they will never get back playing a game made by a company that doesn't even care about the game anymore.

[sg-miss-fortune]

And the worst part is that Riot will never face the class-action lawsuit it so deserves because hidden away in the user agreement is an arbitration clause.

And the worst part is that Riot will never face the class-action lawsuit it so deserves because hidden away in the user agreement is an arbitration clause I couldn't be bothered to read the ToS.

Përïclëé3 votes

[deleted]

rtbf236028241 votes

And there it is! Thank you for including the quote for me. Now for those of us who don't read the agreement--nearly everyone--you would intuitively think that by spending your money on something you acquire some sort of possessory interest in it. Not the case here. You would be better off buying and setting off fireworks.

Zombie Gerbil3 votes

Everyone will continue to buy stuff off here. Unlike toxic players, we keep our keep goods. 10 years and I still got the same things I bought 10 years ago. So nah, screw fireworks and your advice.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

I bought a movie ticket, should I have the right to record it for future use? If I buy a dvd, do I have the right to make copies or stream it for monetary promotion?

If I buy a bundle of something from a bundle site (like Humblebundle) do I have the right to sell any programs I get? (Games usually have a way to give to friends. Which is the proper legal way. Programs do not.)

Oleandervine3 votes

Imaginary rules would imply the rules don't exist. They do, in fact, exist. They are explicitly written in the Terms of Use, so if you somehow missed the part where Riot tells you how you can get your account suspended for violating the rules they have spelled out, you deserve to lose everything you've invested in your account.

Kei1432 votes

Lol..

That's like the banks say that your house is an asset. It is an asset, they just don't say who's asset it is.

But a Riot made game, of course the accounts created are their property.

Zombie Gerbil2 votes

Sorry, no lawyer could touch Riot and many other games out there due to the fact their clients agreed to it. It's like signing a contract before you even download it.

With that said, I've been here for 10 years since beta, and spent loads of money on this game and will continue doing so. [slayer-jinx-catface]

Azure Hamster2 votes

"usury" is charging interest on a loan. Forbidden in Islam, actually.

Caitlyn

TheLastShadow451 votes

Are we really going to talk about this again?

P4ppino1 votes
  1. You don't have to spend money on the game.
  2. There are no microtransactions in league.
  3. Every moba's ToS is the same.
afmghost1 votes

The fact of the matter, first of all, is that when you buy anything in game (either through real money or through grinding), you are simply buying the rights to use whatever it is you got. You don't actually own anything. That's why when you buy a champion, it doesn't say you own them, it says you unlocked them. They're yours to use, but you don't have ownership. Second, you are the one who forked over money. Riot merely sold the rights to use an item to you. You paid them money, they gave you access to a skin, champion, or rune page. They didn't take your money and say "thanks for the money, sucker." Until they do, you lack a case. Third, you agreed to their license before you could run the game. It's simple: If you don't agree to the terms of service, decline it. You don't get to agree to it and then whine about it later. Sorry, but you have no argument here.

MemeL0rd1111 votes

Hush scarecrow ( if you only had a brain :) )

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