Discussion: What is the true impact of in-game flaming, and is it the biggest point of contention?

five2018·Dec 23, 2019·1 votes·1,959 views

Hi, i'm Five. Summoner name five2018. This is my account. It is permanently banned and has been for a good amount of time. I am a big fan of League Of Legends, and i was banned after putting a lot of time into the game for a simple reason: Repeat offence of "flaming". I could go on and on about how i find my last 2 games i was banned for to be unfair and circumstantial, but that isn't what this post is about. I want to speak on my beliefs about flaming, and how Riot Games should go about dealing with it.

Like it or not, League is known to be one of if not THE MOST toxic video game community that exists on the internet (at least, at a large scale.) But, it is also one of the only games that ACTUALLY punishes people for being toxic in-game with one of the best systems to identify "flaming" and BM. If it is so easy to reform, why do people continue to be banned and why is it such a point of contention on the Player Behavior forums? See, personally i believe inting, win trading, and throwing/ afk to be a MUCH worse "rule-break" than flaming/bming is. I think this COMPLETELY ruins the other player's experience without an easy fix. And guess what? in comparison to flaming, if not over 70% of the time, this behavior can and will go unpunished. Why?

Flaming is a behavior of a bad teammate and in general a league player you would not want on your team. But, inting, wintrading, and throwing/afk is a character trait of a player that you wouldn't even want your enemy to have to deal with. Everyone can have a nice laugh over someone being angry at a video game and saying its someone else's fault in chat, but nobody can deal with someone on their team ruining the experience for not only themselves and their team by making the game a huge waste of time, but they also remove the competitiveness and the point of playing from the enemy.

Should flaming be ban-able? And now, im obviously not talking about death threats, off the rift shaming, and other actions that can genuinely effect someones life, im talking about negative talk like: "you are fucking brain-dead, int more dude, wtf " and "you suck Pyke, why are you even trying?". Should that type of behavior be ban-able? I don't think so. And here is why: flaming is the action of negatively speaking to a teammate. Flaming is LINKED with throwing, inting, and other negative behaviors that will cost your team the game and ruin the competitive environment and in general all around point of playing, but flaming itself cannot directly ruin someone else's league experience. Why is this important you may ask? Because the worst thing you can do as a player in league is ruin the experience with league and riot. This directly hurts sales of the video game, and directly makes the player feel bad about ever playing.

You may say, "Hah! only blah-blah % of players are punished in this way! Fuck those players who break the rules. Any real supporter would simply play by the rules and not complain when they are punished rightfully for being a flamer!" However, you may be surprised by the amount of people that find league's ban system negative, and how many people have a negative experience with it. I'm not saying they don't deserve it based on the current rules of League, but they definitely could be positively effected by change.

2 Ways Riot can punish flaming: The first way is obvious and already in the game to an extent. You should have only a few messages, just like a chat restricted account in league. If flaming continues, you should be PERMA banned from chatting in league, and reform processes should be still accessible to the account. Talking with league support and getting your perma ban from chat lifted to only a permanent 5-chats per game rule, can be a stepping stone to having a reputable league account again. This method CAN and will be abused, but its only an idea. Only a step in the right direction.

The second way. This is a more favorable way, and i would do it myself. First, make flaming not punishable unless taken to the next level like i stated earlier in this mini-essay. However, make it so that you have an in-game reputation. after each game, you can either +1 to a player, or -1 to a player. The enemy team can only give +1 and report but cannot do -1. Players with bad reputations will be automatically muted by other players on their team, unless a setting is selected. Players with bad reputations themselves cannot vote on this, and will receive punishments to in-game loot and features. Abusing this feature will be report-able and punishable, and people with good reputation will have in-game bonuses and periodically Riot can do giveaways or sweepstakes for these reputable players. This would encourage reforming, instead of making the path of reform simply grinding a new account and never changing your ways, it would now be open to everyone directly in the client. This would need some changing, due to the fact that if a player were to do bad in your game simply because he/she had an off game, their rep would be negatively effected.

In Conclusion, Everyone makes mistakes, and it is only right to allow players reformation in the client itself, and award players who reform rather than kicking them while they are down. A player may be "way-too" devoted to League and not have something else to turn to in his life, and may be depressed. Reasons for flame can come from anywhere, and are directly linked to being a less happy individual. However, if league accepts these players, sales on skins and etc will not only go up, but the stigma that league is directly linked to toxicity may even go away. And, people's experience of league may be better than ever, and player support of riot may also increase. I would like to thank Riot support about even hearing out my request of lifting my ban, but also i would like to thank whoever is reading this for taking the time out of their day to do so.

PS: I'm close to graduating high school, and i'm definitely not an English major or anything of the sort(i passed most English classes with a medium to high C, lol) , so this is a very informal short "essay" and i was just wanting to state what was on my mind after being banned a while ago. I came back to this account after my school and local college announced League would be supported in an eSport community alongside Rocket League and a few others. (not including CS:GO yet due to violence). This made me interested in this, and if possible i might simply play for the school on the side while i continue my studies and my basketball "career" haha.

EDIT:

TLDR for the vote:

Reputation system: after each game teammates can +1 or -1 your reputation, and enemies can only +1 or do nothing. Bad rep players will be automatically muted by teammates unless a setting is checked. Good rep players will have bonuses and giveaways, and bad rep players will have negative effects on in-game loot.

Chat-bans: basically how chat restrictions currently work, but after a while you can accumulate a permanent ban that eventually may be possible to get reduced to a permanent chat restriction, and eventually normal chatting after a while.

14 Comments

ModUlanopoDec 23, 20196 votes

This feels like a lot of words to say that you don't think verbal toxicity is all that bad and to make suggestions that have already been submitted many times.

The short response is, yeah, verbal toxicity drives away customers, so Riot responds accordingly. For my purposes, I don't like that kind of behavior because I play League for fun, not to provide a captive audience while some would-be internet edgelord types out their frustrations at the world and their pitiful place within it.

Nightsky PirateDec 23, 20193 votes

You're not wrong, but the current system was created because back in the day a chat log was an accurate way to predict who should be banned. I'll dip it first to say you probably are one of those players who should be predictably banned.

Hi, we never met, I don't know you, all I know is the dictionary-based chat program tagged you and you've been warned several times about toxicity or whatever. I think that's wrong but it is the way it is.

Good luck changing that.

Edit: By the way, method 2 is like the current system.

five2018Dec 23, 20191 votes

No, the current system is set up to auto-punish people with a robot that targets without circumstance, and bans. REAL trolls who flame would simply shrug these bans off and come back worse on multiple accounts. See Old Tyler1 and L9. However, simply passionate players like myself who got too heated over someone trolling in their games and decided to share a few negative words with them are punished and turned off from the product that riot made. I never once played a league game or spent another dime on it after my ban.

Also, targeting the OP in "roasts" instead of adding on to the intellectual conversation he's trying to have is a fallacy and a characteristic of a toxic person....

rujitraDec 23, 20197 votes

You are punished and turned off because the vast majority of players don't care why you're flaming/getting heated - it ruins the experience for them regardless of why.

Furthermore, the fact that some people will not be deterred by a punishment does not mean that the punishment is invalid nor does it mean that it shouldn't be applied to those who it does work on. You never played League after your ban? GOOD. In case you didn't get that the first time:

#GOOD

That's the goal - you refuse to accept that your behavior is a problem. You are even still attempting to blame other players for your behavior and say that you're not a problem. Neither Riot nor other players want you to play League of Legends if that's going to be your attitude. So you've just proven that the permanent ban is a working punishment - you refused to reform and change your attitude and behavior, thus you no longer play.

five2018Dec 23, 20191 votes

[deleted]

rujitraDec 23, 20197 votes

The moment you start insulting someone in the 5th word of your reply, you know you're not going to discuss. The moment you continue being toxic through your entire reply just proves that my post is not only accurate, but that nobody else need vote/reply here because you've just proven everything I've said.

This is not voting. This is a video game. You do not have some "right" to play this game. You do not get to force other people to suffer because of your desire to play the game. Toxic chat behavior does ruin games for others because it causes them to no longer have fun - which is the point of a video game.

As I said before, the goal of a permanent ban is that you leave the game. Riot gave you 3 chances to reform and you blew them. Riot doesn't want you to play the game.

zPOOPzDec 23, 20194 votes

This is a very idiotic way of viewing things, my internet stranger friend.

Could use without this.

Also, Toxicity DOES NOT RUIN GAMES AND YOU CANNOT ARGUE THAT IT HAS. It is a simple concept, mute the player if they are being toxic. The end. It CANNOT ruin your game alone. stop with this bullshit.

Toxicity does ruin games. It's also a simple concept, ban the player if they are being toxic so no one else have to deal with that player. The end. Why force everyone else to have to mute you when Rito can just ban you?

Please, dismiss yourself from the comment section, upvote/downvote what you would like, and vote on the poll, then leave. Thank you for your opinion.

This is a public forum. If you don't want people to discuss, you can GTFO yourself.

GatekeeperTDSDec 23, 20194 votes

No, the current system is set up to auto-punish people with a robot that targets without circumstance, and bans.

If you try to make a point based on conjecture and incorrect statements, then expect people to prove you wrong, you're not going to get very far. The system does NOT work as you described it. Part of being "passionate" about anything is also reading the room and acting accordingly. League is not a free-for-all just because it's on the internet and anonymous. Be this "passionate" on a real sports team and you'll get your ass kicked out. Be this type of "passionate" at your job and you'll get fired.

AraMoOseDec 23, 20193 votes

My opinion is that if we could have a sandwich or something at the beginning of the game, maybe this wouldn't be such an issue.

I mean, malnutrition is a serious cause that we as gamers should get behind. We're all sitting at a desk anyways and it's not like our keyboard is using up the entire space of it, there'd be plenty of room to put a sandwich on there.

Furthermore, sandwiches are delicious and can be, if structurally sound and dietarily balanced, a most effective method of sustenance. If Riot really wanted to fix this, they'd install a sandwich bar at spawn or something...

Nightsky PirateDec 23, 20192 votes

Jeez, at least you could rate his sandwich. Meanie...

AraMoOseDec 23, 20193 votes

Sandwiches are a very subjective thing and are therefore always a 10 in my heart.

five2018Dec 23, 20191 votes

Are you trying to troll me or be funny? Because the funny part is working, but the troll part not so much. This is a serious issue and being troll about it really gives immaturity vibes, but carry on eating your sandwich, i suppose.

Meowing MangoDec 23, 20191 votes

Don't say shit when someone even remotely begins to flame/get on your ass about shit. Legit, just mute and don't say anything to them.

The system will punish someone for typing than anything else. If you don't say shit, the system cannot do crap to you.

ﬂooDec 24, 20191 votes

In addition to what's been said here already.. why do you think verbal toxicity isn't bad as well?

It's not like flaming only originates from inting and trolling in response. The term "inting" has been degenerated into a word for any kind of bad play, even though the actual meaning is that someone intnetionally helps the enemy/ruins the game for his team. The casual use to just shit on any person dying once or twice too much for someones liking plays into the next point.

Flaming is distracting and demotivates players. Opening a discussion is not the purpose of the game and distracts you from the real objective. Especially in the current meta, where a single mistakes can cost you the game, people are also very eager to just give up and afk, ff or worse just run it down. Flaming someone doesn't encourage them to play better, but rather makes them want to quit or actually int even more.

It also scares off new customers from a normal experience of the game.

So it doesn't only not have any positive effects, it can also have major negative influence on games. So why should it not be punishable?