Boards›Player Behavior

On The subject of permanent bans

obodo··2 votes·772 views

Now just to warn you, this is going to be long. I have a lot of ongoing thoughts about Riot games and permanent suspension in the League.

Your first reaction is going to be to witch hunt me, because I have been labeled among the .006% of the most toxic players in League.

As far as im aware I have been playing league of legends since 2013 when a couple of my friends showed the me best game I had ever played.

On the morning of March 6th I was permanently banned from League of Legends on my main account Obodo. This led to me opening a long discussion with Riot support, about many of the issues I have, and would like to discuss.

It honestly feels really bad, to see riot send out automated bans for long term players. I had a player tell me to "kill myself" recently because i was playing poorly on zed. Sure I get frustrated, everyone does, but isnt that what the mute button is for? Do you not get that when people say stuff like that to you, it has an effect. I dont ever tell people to kill themselves. But I was the one to receive a permanent ban.

The Mute button: Riot Games is a massive company. Your audience is massive. You give a mute button, but thats not enough. You want to silence any player that doesn't abide by your non accepting rules.

Permanent bans , are a non fixing issue. Go watch any streamer on Twitch and listen to the words that come out of their mouths. But they stream everyday, saying this person is fucking useless, that person is fucking useless, anyone that even slightly underperforms gets raged at.

My biggest wish is that Riot Games would assess what is actually creating the toxicity on their platform. Ever wonder why there are so many toxic players in league of legends? Its the game. League is an extremely demanding game, it requires that all players on the team have an equal understanding of what is going on.

I think toxic, is an overused term. Everyone is "toxic" nowadays. And every game someone gets raged out and reported by several players in the game.

Why you ask? well the game creates toxicity.

One game you do well, but there is a troll on your team. And a feeder. What do you do? you passively ignore them and try to do your best. Despite the fact that its nigh impossible to win with people like that on your team.

Next game, five minutes in your adc has died 3 times and quits. What happens? you lose the game. But hey, you still stay passive and calm because youre still hoping for wins.

Game after that? The duo on your team are obviously smurfs, so they shit talk you. And back you against the wall because theyre better at the game than you. What can you do though? they belong in diamond.

Game 4? Youre a little tilted but you keep it together and end up gaining a win! YAY good times!

Game 5? raging teamates, afk jungle, support hates adc and trolls

All that lp you got in the game before? gone.

Now what Im getting at is League of Legends presses on people, the community around you expects absolute perfection or they rage you out. League of legends is my favorite game, and also my least favorite. I love to play it when im doing well. But when i lose lane i legitimately feel like shit., not just because I lost. But because the team raged me out, told me to kills myself, something crazy etc.

This game, is a breeding ground for negative behavior, and you respond by silencing and banning long term players, which is really sad. Free speech doesnt exist anymore, Because riot is watching over your shoulder, and should you lose your temper? banned. Now you say its because its over time, but how can you hold anyone to bad behavior from months past? You dont know anything about the lives of your players, but you still expect good attitudes all around all the time. Your players arent all under the age of 15, and its really sad to see a company with such great potential waste it on political correctness.

Upon bringing these things up, the Riot Support help that I received told me "Sometimes the best thing you can say, is nothing at all" and "I truly respect your decision to move on to something else"

But sadly I disagree entirely. Quite frankly if someone attacks me, in any way shape or form, I have the God given right to defend myself. If you believe you can silence players based on something they say, im sorry to tell you that you're wrong. You cant silence players, you can't tell people what to say. Especially players that are reacting to others.

They agreed that the environment is one of high pressure, but Riot expects players to maintain that pressure at all times. The reality of this is that people dont retain pressure. They let it out, they express what they are feeling.

And on the front of moving on, sadly we both know that isn't what happens when players are banned.

Have you ever smurfed? Have you look at the chat boxes? Have you seen what bans cause? The reality of banning long term players, is that they will find a way to play regardless of how hard Riot tries to silence them. Smurfs are an extremely big issue in low elo and pre 30 games. New players are constantly raged at, disregarded, treated like shit etc.

Do you understand what im getting at?

Riot bans the toxic players, and forces them to play on new accounts, with new players that arent up to par with their skill level.

Put 2 and 2 together, and you realize that you havent banned anyone at all, just moved them to other accounts, where the people in their games aren't even knowledgeable enough to defend themselves.

Now on to another front. Riot games focuses on the games where a player is "toxic"(badmouthing, talking shit, cussing, etc) and completely disregards any game where you had a good attitude. You can defend that by saying the honor system compensates for that. No it doesn't.

The reality of league of legends is that people want to win. They dont care about your feelings, they dont care where you end up. They care that they win and nothing else. So you win lane five games in a row, you get honored all of those games and your honor level goes up 1. You have a single game where something sets you on tilt and you're honor decrease.

League of legends is a game that praises you in victory, and shits down your throat in defeat. If its not your weakness in game that gets you down, its the other players. Banning players based on words, is weakness, and honestly a sad one sided ploy at silencing anyone that disagrees.

To which Riot support told me that I had an interesting perspective.

Its not just an interesting perspective. Its reality. In a perfect world, yes toxic players will be banned over and over. But what you fail to understand is that passive aggression, is just as bad if not worse than aggression, yet it goes unpunished. Your system bans players based on "Trigger words". People will always end up changing the slang to fit your criteria, but at the end of the day "Fuck you" and "screw you" mean the exact same thing.

I really do appreciate the time this Riot employee put in to respond to me, I just wish that the system wasn't so one dimensional. You want toxic players out of your game, I understand where you're coming from.

Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world. And I don't label anyone as permanently toxic. People have issues. Riot has no authority over anyone. Regardless of bans, honor drops etc. You have no power over others. Riot Games as a company exists to make money.

Riot Games implements a system that bans long term players, who by the way, are the reason Riot Games exists. If we weren't buying skins. You wouldn't have a job.

Now this is all good and fine, until you start banning people from a one sided perspective. When you are banned, you are given the chat logs that justify your ban. You take the conversation out of context because of trigger words. You don't care who was right. You care that someone's feelings were triggered. You dont care if they deserved it, you dont care if I am right or wrong. You care that your system takes me out because I am among the .006 of toxic players(according to Riot Games)

The only way to fix this issue, is to completely remove bans.(Except for cheaters, inters, afkers, etc), people who actually deserve punishment for disrupting games. People who "Verbally" ruin games, are still playing your game and buying skins.

The mute button is a magical fix to this issue, a player that you mute, is muted forever in future games, at least until you unmute them. Does that not fix the issue? It takes one single click, for any player to silence another player, for any reason at all. But that's just not enough. Riot then goes, and decides to bring Morals into the picture(when it fits them) and ban a player that they label as permanently toxic.

Id like to see some what some people and possibly Riot have to say about some of these issues.

I dont hate Riot, I dont hate people. Sometimes I lose my temper and say bad things, but in my opinion who doesnt?

Sincerely, Mattregory, or "Obodo"

50 Comments

ModThe Djinn11 votes

The mute button is a magical fix to this issue, a player that you mute, is muted forever in future games, at least until you unmute them. Does that not fix the issue?

It really doesn't, as that play still had a chance to behavior poorly towards others, who have no warning until they are attacked. The mute button is a shield against toxicity, yes, but it is not an excuse for it.

There are also a few misunderstandings here, such as the idea the system only works on trigger words and can't detect some passive aggression (false), that the majority of players who are banned come right back to the game an spend more money (we have no data on this either way, so it's a guess at best as to the exact percentages), and that Riot has no power (private companies have always been allowed to implement rules such as this when the behavior is on their private property, be it real or virtual).

The biggest misconception is that this isn't what the community wants. If everyone stopped reporting today, no bans would ever go out. If people stopped reporting hate speech, hate speech would be allowed. The system exists to take the community's input on what sort of community it wants to be, and target those who are causing issues in that community. Some people, yes, don't agree with that -- and that's fine. There are other games and other communities they're welcome to be part of.

obodo1 votes

Im sorry but you are wrong. Riot has ZERO power. They can ban a player, but that player can go on to make 50 more accounts. Which is exactly what they should do. We are all living people, and quite frankly Riot chooses sides. Riot cannot decide someone's fate as "toxic". Sure they can on a single account, but the only thing that does is deprive players of skins they purchased with real life income.

You on the other hand have a misconception of hate speech. I dont hate anyone, I dont ever tell people to kill themselves, which is the actual hate here. Just because I badmouth doesn't make me a hateful demon as you'd like to believe. Just because I think bans are negative for the game as a whole, doesn't mean I want people getting attacked. You assume that everyone stands behind you, but "Your" community isnt yours at all. I am part of it, regardless of how you would like to belittle me. I think that the mute button is the fix. Riot shouldn't be looking over our shoulders waiting for us to make mistakes. We should be allowed to freely speak as we please, and players should mute accordingly.

AeroWaffle2 votes

Im sorry but you are wrong. Riot has ZERO power. They can ban a player, but that player can go on to make 50 more accounts. Which is exactly what they should do.

Not everyone is willing to keep on restarting from square one in such a game where it takes a long time to progress.

We are all living people, and quite frankly Riot chooses sides.

Yes. Riot has chosen the side of those who can remain civil towards others.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}You on the other hand have a misconception of hate speech.

That was used as an example of how the community can influence things. I should have clarified. I don't know and won't presume your specific behavior. Apologies if that was unclear.

I think that the mute button is the fix.

And that's a valid opinion. It is, however, something Riot has acknowledged aa a viewpoint before and specifically decided against. In order to change that view I think you would need to prove definitively that your proposal will make the game experience better for all players. I'm skeptical that that can be done, as I know Riot has considered this before.

Kei1436 votes

If I had to mute you, it means you already did damage and probably ruined my day. So I'd rather report you so you can get punished so you can't ruin other people's day.

obodo1 votes

Then that's your opinion. If something I say triggers you to have a ruined day, you let it go on to long. You should have muted me and gone on with your day. Now the problem with people like you is that you assume authority and right over people like me. Just because your feelings got hurt along the way, doesn't make you the only victimized person with a selfish attitude.

Kei1431 votes

that same comment goes both ways.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

obodo1 votes

Oh does it now? Because i'm the one here that thinks speech should be open. Not flagged and funneled by people like you.

Zezockary4 votes

{quoted}

But sadly I disagree entirely. Quite frankly if someone attacks me, in any way shape or form, I have the God given right to defend myself. If you believe you can silence players based on something they say, im sorry to tell you that you're wrong. You cant silence players, you can't tell people what to say. Especially players that are reacting to others.

But you didn't defend yourself. Defending yourself would have been muting them, which would shield you from all harm they could potentially throw at you. What you are talking about is counterattacking, which is still attacking.

obodo1 votes

Quite frankly, I did defend myself. In whichever manner I choose. Not you.

Your logic isn't sound. In any war, in any age, do you defend yourself by silencing your enemy? No you don't. You fight, you attack, you do whatever it takes to defend yourself. Now we are all humans, and we all do things differently. In my opinion, the fact that you think my only defense against shit talk is muting, is sad and weak. If I feel like attacking back, because someone upset me. That is my right, and people like you can never take that away from me.

Zezockary3 votes

This isn't a war. Nobody is being physically threatened. If you choose to ignore the person (by muting them) then you will in no way be harmed or further attacked. All you have done by choosing to attack them back is cause your team to have two toxic people on it instead of one, which is negative to the game environment.

And yes, that is your right. Just like it is Riot's right to choose to remove people that they believe make their game a worse environment from their game.

obodo1 votes

You hit the nail on the head, when you said "this isn't a war. Nobody is being physically threatened"

Exactly.

Then why doesn't a simple mute fix the issue?

Because people are vengeful, and selfish. They report if it fits them.

Sure Riot has the right to remove people. I just think that the way they go about it is weak and centered around a fragile emotional construct.

Peoples feelings get hurt every single day, over real things. Things that actually impact their lives.

Trash talk in a video game, is part of the experience. And its wishful thinking to ban select players when a massive part of the community takes part in shit talking.

Zezockary3 votes

I have never had my feelings hurt by anyone in this game. Like, ever. I have reported many people though, because I would rather not have to put up with toxic people while playing a game for personal enjoyment. It takes away from the experience and Riot realizes that. They would rather have a better game environment than accommodate toxic people.

Muting does not fix the issue because the game has already been negatively impacted by the time you have to use it. Someone having a tool that defends against something isn't an excuse to go around making them use it.

Competitive trash talk is not punishable and I have not seen an example of someone being punished for it. If you have examples of someone being punished for it without the punishment being revoked I would like to see it and we can discuss the point further.

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

But sadly I disagree entirely. Quite frankly if someone attacks me, in any way shape or form, I have the God given right to defend myself.

I think this is the statement that caught my attention the most, because I disagree with this statement more than anything else that you said.

I was raised to not stoop to someone else's level when they got personal and started insulting me. Everyone has a different moral compass, but the reality is that Riot does get to make the rules around here. You're right that they can't ban you from making a new account... but if that didn't actually matter at all, then why the long post about it? Obviously, it matters. You can't have your cake and eat it, too, as they say.

Your actions prove that the system is having an effect, because it's causing you to think long and hard about your behavior. You may not have changed your mind, but hopefully some of the responses here will at least convince you that you're in the minority. Most people have a problem with being rude and condescending in game; you can take as many issues with calling it "toxic" as you want, but most of the players don't want to see that behavior in their games.

Sidenote: streamers are an entirely different issue; it's like cursing at other drivers on the road with your windows up, which I do often :P They can't hear you, so that's just harmless venting. Riot can't police your out of game behavior.

But anyway, the ban system isn't going anywhere because it does make the game better overall for most players. Knowing, as you do, that you're in the .006% of people that get permanently banned, what makes you think that you should get the make the rules instead of Riot or the rest of the players? What's your qualification? Someone has to, and in this case, it's Riot. That's how real life works. Someone else usually gets to make the rules; you can not follow them at your own risk.

obodo1 votes

It has less to do with stooping to another's level, and realizing that you shouldn't ever infringe on anyone else's right to say whatever they want. Weather you like it or not doesn't matter.

BlueThingamajig3 votes

There are always consequences and repercussions for actions (including speech). I chose those words specifically for the negative connotations they hold, even though there could just as easily be positive outcomes as negative ones. To suggest there are no consequences is, imo, delusional. If it didn't, then there wouldn't be court cases about it. There wouldn't be wars about it.

You claim you should be able to say what you want, and that nobody should be able to challenge that. In response I quote Anthony McAuliffe, "NUTS!" It's fucking bonkers.

I have lost respect for you, relative to my baseline respect for random strangers I'll likely not interact with again. Truthfully, my respect for you should be utterly meaningless to you. To you, I am also a random stranger you are unlikely to interact with again outside of this thread. But I hope you consider the implications of this: A little bit of courtesy can go a long way when interacting with others. In a job, in a relationship, or in a game of league of legends.

obodo1 votes

Sadly its always the way people like you respond. Can't make them agree instantly? Throw them out, demonize them, make them the enemy. Its exactly what you're doing. You lose respect for me? funny enough I didn't even know that you existed, let alone respect you.

Truthfully, you fail to understand that I am just as much a human as you. I don't have any respect for someone that leaves a comment but says they wont have any future interaction. Sorry honey, but if you cant stand on what you believe, then its a waste of your time.

You also assume a lot about me. You know nothing of my courtesy, you know nothing about who I am or what I do. Just a couple of trigger words have you boiling so quick that you have you put your tail between your legs and leave. Bye bye.

BlueThingamajig3 votes

Sweeping generalization? Check.

I disagree with you, and its "always the way people like [me] respond". I'm not throwing you out, nor am I demonizing you. I just think you need to get past your own egocentrism. Having your opinion challenged based on my opinions and observations does not equate to demonization.

Momentary lapse in reading? Check.

Please note that I did not say I would never interact with you again. I merely stated it was very unlikely I would encounter you outside of this thread. It would be a waste of effort to seek you out beyond this conversation.

Aggressive and demeaning commentary? Check.

What did I assume about you? That you think you should be able to speak what you will without anyone "infringing" on it? Those are your words, not mine.

Anything else you'd like to discuss?

obodo1 votes

You can try your hardest to put me in a box, and abide your politically correct rules but you wont ever change anything. You're passive aggressive and its cute to watch you try and lock me down. I Believe people should be able to freely speak on anything they want. Absolutely anything. And I dont believe they should receive bans based on those words. I think people like you want to silence anyone that shatters their little glass wall that they've hidden behind.

BlueThingamajig2 votes

You know, if I were some, ahem, "ultra-PC snowflake libtard" (if such a person even exists outside the world of straw), I might actually be upset at the things you say.

Earlier, you stated that "if I cannot stand on what I believe, then its a waste of my time". What I believe in is individual freedom, individual responsibility, and individual accountability. Subsequently, I support Riot in holding you accountable for your actions.

But hey, we're talking philosophy here. It's not like either of us can be right or wrong.

And as a chemist, I find my glass walls to be incredibly useful. If they shatter, I'd be at serious risk. [slayer-jinx-wink]

obodo1 votes

Sorry that you feel that way. You stay where they want you. Ill be where I please.

BlueThingamajig2 votes

Is "banned from League" where you please?

obodo1 votes

You're treating yourself like a laughing stalk. Have you read the entire post? Because if you did you'd realize that account bans result in absolutely nothing. I'm still playing the game, and quite frankly no company could ever keep me from anything.

obodo1 votes

Also, based on your response i'd have to assume you are a "ultra-PC snowflake libtard"

You try to belittle the saying, but it fits you all to well hon.

C3st La Vi32 votes

Riot is way too harsh with their judgement and it seems all the feeding or selfish trolls who deserves to get banned gets their ways, if you don't review the gameplay how do you know if the player is playing to win or trolling? trolling is way more annoying than people who has an opinion, that's why there's a mute button isn't it? So why do people even get banned for what they say? Honestly, people are way too sensitive, imagine a society where people can be excluded (or maybe killed/banned permanently for what they say), o yea those society only exists in the dark ages or maybe North Korea. Can't we just stop banning and play the game? Riot management are some of the most toxic communities I've seen. I hope the rioters gets judged the way they do to others. I don't think you deserve to be banned, goodluck though because Riot probably don't care about you or what you think.

Zezockary8 votes

[{quoted}](name=C3st La Vi3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lBrN1qNm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-10T20:33:45.272+0000)

So why do people even get banned for what they say? Honestly, people are way too sensitive, imagine a society where people can be excluded (or maybe killed/banned permanently for what they say), o yea those society only exists in the dark ages or maybe North Korea.

Try going to any restaurant and yell profanities. I promise you they will be more harsh and swift than Riot is to remove you from their premises.

Hell, Riot doesn't even punish for profanities. You can say whatever you want as long as it isn't hate speech, encouraging suicide, or being negative towards someone else.

obodo1 votes

Sorry to break your logic, but League of Legends is not a restaurant. It is a game played from within my personal bubble in my own home. I can do whatever I like, however I like. Nobody in their right mind, is going to just simply do what others say. I don't. I think for myself and act accordingly. You cant simply compare this to something like a restaurant setting where you have a napkin wrapped around your neck and your pinkie finger pointed up.

AeroWaffle1 votes

I can do whatever I like, however I like.

Technically nothing is stopping you from doing whatever you like, however you like in a restaurant as well. Just don't expect to be not be thrown out for certain things.

Just as Riot is free to ban your account.

obodo1 votes

Takes me back to the part where I said, Riot can't actually do anything about it. Banning long term players results in the flaming of lesser players in lower elos. Same people still playing the game.

AeroWaffle1 votes

{quoted}

Not everyone is willing to keep on restarting from square one in such a game where it takes a long time to progress.

obodo1 votes

Having to walk on glass because someone's feelings might get hurt is a chore for me. I honestly couldn't care less. Games used to be about gaming. Now people only care about their damned feelings.

AeroWaffle2 votes

Isn't that being hypocritical then?

You are here because your own feelings. If you couldn't care less why make the post?

obodo1 votes

I made the post to point out how fragile people are. And how they should toughen up or use the mute button. The one sided actions of Riot Games with permabans is a laughing stock. Shooting themselves in the foot.

Passive aggressive people use the report button in spite to get players that either beat them or shit talked them banned. How much more sore can a loser be?

AeroWaffle1 votes

Funny, because I see the people who can't even control their own behavior in chat when someone else is being rude or playing poorly as people who need to "toughen up".

How soft do you have to be to lose your own temper over what happens in a video game?

obodo1 votes

I dont think you've played league enough. There are "Toxic" players in every game. They're not toxic people, theyre just having their own type of fun in a video game. The mute button was made for a reason as ive said before. If you cant handle someones words, you already have the answer.

AeroWaffle2 votes

They're not toxic people, theyre just having their own type of fun in a video game.

You can have your fun without intentionally trying to antagonize people in chat.

The mute button is there so I don't have to deal with your chat anymore. It doesn't change that I had to deal with it in the first place. If you can't handle behaving yourself in chat, you already have the answer.

obodo1 votes

Your words, not mine. I didn't restrict fun to the toxicity. You did.

And quite frankly im not going to walk on glass around every little snowflake that cant take opposition.

Zezockary2 votes

You are right, it is not a restaurant. It is a server hosted by a private business who has the legal right to choose who they want to access it that you agreed to in the terms and conditions. However, like a restaurant, they have chosen to set their own rules and remove people who choose not to abide by them.

Think for yourself. Act accordingly. Keep in mind however that you will have to face the consequences of how you act. When you act against the rules that have been set in place by the people who are hosting you they have the right to punish you for it.

obodo1 votes

The consequences of a one sided judgement system. Riot Games moral code shifts with the wind.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}

Sorry to break your logic, but League of Legends is not a restaurant. It is a game played from within my personal bubble in my own home. I can do whatever I like, however I like. Nobody in their right mind, is going to just simply do what others say. I don't. I think for myself and act accordingly. You cant simply compare this to something like a restaurant setting where you have a napkin wrapped around your neck and your pinkie finger pointed up.

The comparison is apt in that the private company can dictate the acceptable rules for their space, virtual or otherwise, and eject you for violating those rules.

obodo1 votes

A restaurant is a fine setting where you eat food and mind your manners. League of legends is a competitive game, where you compete, and imo say whatever you like. Strings unattached.

You can compare anything you like. Doesn't make it any more valid.

obodo1 votes

Thank you man. It means a lot. People are extremely sensitive, its why the down vote a post like this, you actually read what I had to say and commented. I love that. Riot assumes a mommy daddy approach to negative behavior. When in reality anything said, and anything done, has two sides. Regardless of what riot believes to be the "Moral" code which for them, is always changing.

obodo1 votes

Its a little sad to see how quickly people side with the system. No one cares, its all about political correctness and "keeping quiet" over actually defending yourself. Follow the narrative "be nice"(without an actual moral code set in stone)

Too bad people dont have balls anymore.

#gamergate

Ozag the Mighty1 votes

Removed

obodo1 votes

Oh honey, removed? one single tear

Ozag the Mighty1 votes

Oh I was referring to what I originally posted, had crappy service at that time so the original post looked like a giant run in sentence, and it finally loaded with spaces and such. And only posted "OMG PARAGRAPHS"

fatherdarius1 votes

For the most part, I don't care what strangers think of me, or say to me.

I'm just here to play, text doesn't tilt me.

Sorta Zen I guess. YMMV.

obodo2 votes

I'f you don't care what strangers think, then you should get off the forums.

fatherdarius1 votes

Hmm.

You're not wrong.

More from Player Behavior

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
Player Behavior1,525 comments
1,086
votes
Riot should add monthly status cards
Player Behavior241 comments
843
votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes