Boards›Player Behavior

Tribunal 2.0 (Concept Work)

Stumpy Steel··3 votes·406 views

Hey friends! I had a rough time the other day while leveling my account (No this isn't a sob story, don't worry). I generally love this community, but after a day full of inters, flamers, and the like, I felt defeated. I'm sure we all feel like reports are useless (because holy moly does it seem that way sometimes) so I wrote to Riot about it. In my letter I mention that I'm afraid they don't have enough people on their team to handle the egregious amounts of reports coming in, so I proposed (and I know people have wanted the Tribunal for a while now) that with some work, we can easily bring back the Tribunal and eventually bring the salt levels of League down. I'm no mathematician, but I do seriously think that this will bring the number of reports, and the number of permabans down.

"If Honourable Players are given the opportunity to use the Tribunal to look over cases of reports, it will help everyone. Firstly, you won't be as overwhelmed with the amount of reports coming in, because possibly thousands of players will be using this system. Secondly, if Bob uses the Tribunal and determines a case is guilty, if the Toxic Player is a first time offender, they could get a warning or small punishment. That may set the Toxic Player straight, and stop them from being toxic in the future (as a result, they won't get perma'd). If they continue however, due to the amount of Honourable Players looking over cases, they will almost certainly be punished again for strike two (harder punishment) and eventually strike three. Obviously the three-strike system is flawed and I'm not suggesting it should be used, but you know what I mean. Five strikes, something like that (also based on the offences they commit, such as five verbal abuse cases = a thirty game chat ban, and three inting cases = a one week ban. Five inting cases = a two week ban, however since the nature of inting is hard to determine without context it may be more difficult to determine than a smaller offence)."

However I don't believe players should hold the fate of other players' accounts. Many times we have bad games, I had a Graves go 1/8/2 earlier but I know for a fact he was trying. Therefore I feel that the Tribunal should be a filter for Riot's Report team.

"Act as a filter for your support team to lighten the load (Share the load, Frodo!). Based on the reputation of the Toxic Player, your team will see it and see the Tribunal's response to it (simlar to an upvote/downvote system, if 70% of the Tribunal verdicts are guilty, your team can dish out a punishment, or vice versa. How you determine the punishment will be up to you, or an algorithm), and act on that." This would consider the percentage of verdicts (13% Not Guilty, 28% Abstained, 59% Guilty), the report case name (Riven: Int/afk) and the sample size/no. of verdicts (30 verdicts is much too small, but if 3000 H. Players voted on it that's substantial).

In conclusion, I want to thank you for reading all of this, I know it was long and winded, but it's extremely important to me and I truly feel that if we police each other, this game will be so much more enjoyable for everyone involved. There will still be toxic players, but everyone has bad days and I think the flamers out there can be rehabilitated or if it comes to it, they just won't be toxic for fear of being punished. Because with thousands of players using the Tribunal, they will be noticed.

ANYways I'm starting to sound like George Orwell, so thanks again for reading. I hope we can build upon this idea and improve it!

Just a guy who likes this game, Stumpy.

Here's a rough draft of what I imagine it could look like! (Green = Not Guilty, Orange = Abstained, Red = Guilty) https://imgur.com/u84uzeE

8 Comments

ModThe Djinn7 votes

I'm no mathematician, but I do seriously think that this will bring the number of reports, and the number of permabans down.

There's a bigger issue here -- the reason the Tribunal was taken down was because the math didn't work. Not in terms of how it affected reporting, but in terms of efficiency. League generates millions of hours of gameplay each day. The unfortunate fact is that manually reviewing cases just wasn't tenable on a game the size of League, and it's only grown since that time.

Stumpy Steel1 votes

Ah, I guess maybe I'm a little naive there. But I think there's enough players out there who would do this sort of thing. For the Rioter in charge of hitting the button, this could make it a lot easier and less tedious for them.

There's the Overwatch part of CS:GO, where high-elo players can review cases, and while this isn't as visually appealing as that, I at least feel it would be used quite often.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stumpy Steel,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=l83HOfub,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-19T18:15:28.352+0000)

Ah, I guess maybe I'm a little naive there. But I think there's enough players out there who would do this sort of thing. For the Rioter in charge of hitting the button, this could make it a lot easier and less tedious for them.

There's the Overwatch part of CS:GO, where high-elo players can review cases, and while this isn't as visually appealing as that, I at least feel it would be used quite often.

So I had some quick pocket math on this I did the other day. I'll repost it here. For the following I assumed we only need 5 votes to render a verdict, and a player only needed two minutes to be 100% confident in their decision.

League has about 27 million players each day, as of our last update. If each player plays just one game, that's 2.7 million games. If just 5% have someone accuse someone of feeding, that's still 135000 games, or, at 2 minutes each for 5 players reviewing, 22,500 man-hours of review time needed. That's a LOT, and many of those numbers are low.

Meowgin2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stumpy Steel,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=l83HOfub,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-19T17:53:37.398+0000) "If Honourable Players are given the opportunity..."

What if some players, who have multiple accounts, would have higher honor on some of their accounts than average player? (Let's say smurfs with "good behavior" and "bad behavior" accounts). They would be able to corrupt Tribunal by voting in favor to protect their other own or their friend's account, as well as voting in groups against someone they don't like. People often react subjectively aka "me and my friends always right, others - wrong for anything. Add to this that many players are immature. This thought keeps me personally absolutely against any idea about Tribunal by players at all. Also, I noticed that the idea about Tribunal is so often brought up by players, who cares oddly a lot about making life easier for toxic players. Looks like a bad sign. Toxic players probably can to be reformed by just naturally growing up, without complicated system, that would rather create a lot of chaos and uncertainty. And extra work. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Stumpy Steel1 votes

With the amount of reports, it's very highly unlikely that someone could ever find their own or their friend's account. The rough draft image I posted, I imagined to be what the Rioter's see. I imagine what the players see would be a random case that they can't pick, and when they're done if they want to continue, they hit "next" onto another random case.

I'm actually really for rehabilitation, unfortunately a lot of these players simply choose not to grow up.

Meowgin1 votes

Then, what you suggest is to allow bunch of players to boost their ego by judging others. Angry, tilted, bulled irl, having a bad day, frustrated etc players would be able to go and vent their anger and frustration by thoughtlessly voting "guilty" on dozens of cases. Who can check if they vote fair? You suggest Riot to fully trust random players more than their own means? This just would spreed more toxicity.

How do you know if they choose it or not? Lets imagine, someone started to play the game in the age of 13. In 5 years they 18 years old, which is still not the age of mental maturity. You can't force people to grow up, especially if it's against nature. Also, your suggestion would make it easier for them to stay toxic, by make everything more chaotic, crowded and stretch the time before any consequences of their actions would show up. How long it takes to gather 4000 votes on each issue? Especially in some busy seasons of exams or vacations? Also, voting is not fun. People who are not involved in misbehavior and not interested to boost their ego most likely wouldn't vote at all. What can motivate them?

Kei1431 votes

The tribunal is a great way to increase visibility that there is a working behavioral system in place, but not necessarily the best way to punish people.

The old tribunal got cancelled because it took ages to punish people (some players recieved a punishment from a year ago) and the false positive rate was high.

If you need visibility, stuff like this would be pretty ok: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/aFmEtAVK-riot-should-add-monthly-status-cards

Stumpy Steel1 votes

I think the monthly status card is a great idea! The Rioter I talked to had let me know that the Instant Feedback System puts in a lot of work, and it's just our bias that makes it feel like it doesn't. So the monthly report would be a pretty cool idea! The reason I'm for the Tribunal is that I know I'd use it, so I can imagine a fairly substantial amount of other players would.

The Djinn had brought up the sheer amount of man hours that it could take to review cases, and with the amount of time it can take for it to act on those verdicts I can understand why it may not seem worth it. And maybe I'm just too much of an optimist and not enough of a realist, but I feel like if there were some sort of beta where they could test it, it might show up with different results!

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