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Another tribunal thread

scazzman·Aug 23, 2017·3 votes·339 views

the recent Rossboomsocks videos of the guy who soft inted and the tahm anivia duo should have been a wake up call for riot

YOUR TROLL DETECTION SUCKS ASS. since riot cannot manually review every report for inting. reinstate the tribunal for all reports that make it past the automated system that arent manually reviewed within 24 hours

tribunal voters would have access to

a full replay of the game item builds chat logs from all 9 players end game stats

the person reviewing would be asked "was the player trolling" Y/N "how was the player trolling" and they would be required to leave a short description

to be eligible to vote a player must not have any active punishments other then leaverbuster be level 30 not have had a 14 day ban within 3 months

in addition, players who receive punishment should be able to request their case go to the tribunal, some people legitimately reform, but not fully and get permabanned anyway because they had a bad game shortly after a 14 day ban. or the classic "i was quoting someone" or they were bantering in a 5man premade and got reported by the enemy team

how it would work. player requests appeal. leaving a comment saying why they think they should get an appeal

for these types of cases the person reviewing would have access to

chat logs in ALL of the player's reform cards time since last punishment who initiated the report who else was reported in that game chat logs for the rest of the team what punishment the player is receiving

the person reviewing the case would then vote "Remove, Reduce, uphold,

players would be encouraged to vote "remove" for cases involving a player being blindly reported by the enemy team and being flagged for something said in teamchat

"Reduce" would be for things like quoting someone using hate speech and recieving an escalated punishment. cases of "counter reporting" or a player being on their last strike but showing improvement

18 Comments

archerno1Aug 23, 20176 votes

And with millions of cases on Tribunal how long do you think it would take for someone to get punished?

scazzmanAug 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And with millions of cases on Tribunal how long do you think it would take for someone to get punished?

The tribunal would be used in tandem with the IFS. Mostly to detect gameplay trolls

Anything detectable by the IFS will still be done automatically. and ideally riot would still do manual reviews as well.
The IFS would be to stop chat, and the tribunal would be used to stop trolls

archerno1Aug 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The tribunal would be used in tandem with the IFS. Mostly to detect gameplay trolls

Anything detectable by the IFS will still be done automatically. and ideally riot would still do manual reviews as well.
The IFS would be to stop chat, and the tribunal would be used to stop trolls

Thats the point. Every game someone reports someone for trolling. For hundreds of reasons. Missing smite, not ganking, their picks, their builds, their CS, their score, KS, bad dives,not pinging, not following your laner and tons more of things that arent against rules. Yet people dont hesitate to report them.

scazzmanAug 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thats the point. Every game someone reports someone for trolling. For hundreds of reasons. Missing smite, not ganking, their picks, their builds, their CS, their score, KS, bad dives,not pinging, not following your laner and tons more of things that arent against rules. Yet people dont hesitate to report them.

however. this system would still be an improvement over letting trolls walk away scott free simply because they troll in ways that arent detectable by a bot

archerno1Aug 23, 20172 votes

{quoted}

however. this system would still be an improvement over letting trolls walk away scott free simply because they troll in ways that arent detectable by a bot

Yes and who will pay for all of this and why? Who will pay for thousands of staff member who would work full time watching replays whole day? Every single day? How much would it cost? How would company benefit from such expenses? Do you ever consider that? This isnt a charity or a government. This is business. Company that wastes their money on stuff that wont profit them goes bankrupt. It would cost millions to pay for that manpower.

CooL Ice TeaAug 23, 20171 votes

That's why he wants the tribunal, here the players can look over that stuff. My question about that idea is, why should players watch into those cases and waste there time by watching 35 min+ replays?

ChermorgAug 23, 20172 votes

That's the thing. You have OP and maybe 5 other people who are willing to do that. When Tribunal was a thing, there was a ridiculous backlog because players didn't wanna look at cases. And that was back when it took 5 minutes or less to look generally.

archerno1Aug 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=CooL Ice Tea,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=kJKmAtRU,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-23T12:05:45.629+0000)

That's why he wants the tribunal, here the players can look over that stuff. My question about that idea is, why should players watch into those cases and waste there time by watching 35 min+ replays?

Ye but he also said

Anything detectable by the IFS will still be done automatically. and ideally riot would still do manual reviews as well.

And u dont get to choose cases. You are given random case. How many people would be willing to go through millions of cases ,reading them, watching replays and stuff like that? You know very well people would just troll vote. And in the end it will lead to same outcome, Tribunal wont be able to deal with amount of cases which is why it was disabled in the first place

scazzmanAug 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ye but he also said

Anything detectable by the IFS will still be done automatically. and ideally riot would still do manual reviews as well.

And u dont get to choose cases. You are given random case. How many people would be willing to go through millions of cases ,reading them, watching replays and stuff like that? You know very well people would just troll vote. And in the end it will lead to same outcome, Tribunal wont be able to deal with amount of cases which is why it was disabled in the first place

Riot already does manual reviews. Riot wouldnt need to hire anyone. And i imagine the number of cases would be reduced since chat offenses would be dealt with automatically

CooL Ice TeaAug 23, 20171 votes

Riot is doing manual reviews after several email messages in the player support. It's not like they do manual reviews on a daily basis from their own.

ChermorgAug 23, 20171 votes

Tribunal wasn't generally used for gameplay trolls. As someone who participated heavily in tribunal when it was a thing, it tended to look for chat offenses anyway.

Icy Hot ShotoAug 23, 20171 votes

To add on about the Tribunal, the reason it got replaced with the current system is because some players would punish those who did nothing wrong but let those who needed to be punished off without even a warning.

scazzmanAug 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

To add on about the Tribunal, the reason it got replaced with the current system is because some players would punish those who did nothing wrong but let those who needed to be punished off without even a warning.

To prevent this. There would be restrictions on who could vote

TrulyBlandAug 23, 20171 votes

Not really. Across all cases Tribunal had a very high specificity (1 in 6000 punishments were false iirc); and technically it even was fairly accurate with pardon-decisions. The problem was that it was so slow that it effectively pardoned pretty much the majority of offenses, because offenders would not even be judged for their actions until months later.

TrulyBlandAug 23, 20171 votes

The problem with manual reviews is that they're a drop in the ocean. Asking for Tribunal to be reimplemented is asking for a second drop in the ocean.

Personally, I'd prefer if Riot used their resources on improving the automated system. As bad as it may be currently, it's probably already catching more bad guys in a faster fashion that Tribunal would, and it's the best shot Riot has at actually fixing the problem.

scazzmanAug 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The problem with manual reviews is that they're a drop in the ocean. Asking for Tribunal to be reimplemented is asking for a second drop in the ocean.

Personally, I'd prefer if Riot used their resources on improving the automated system. As bad as it may be currently, it's probably already catching more bad guys in a faster fashion that Tribunal would, and it's the best shot Riot has at actually fixing the problem.

In theory. Punishments from the tribunal coild be used to train the IFS to spot trolls better

TrulyBlandAug 23, 20171 votes

In theory yes, but it adds another layer of complexity when it comes to Riot supervising the entire thing. Currently, Riot can trust the IFS to do only what they themselves have taught it, allowing it to operate freely on cases where it has high enough confidence to make a decision. But that confidence is (evidently) not very high yet, meaning troll voters could distort how its working very easily at this moment.

So, ironically, I don't think the IFS is good enough yet to be improved by Tribunal. What I could see working, though, is Tribunal not making any definitive decisions, but essentially serve as a prioritization tool to distinguish very obvious cases from not-so-obvious cases. That would allow Riot to pick the next "lesson" for the IFS from what is essentially a list ordered by controversy.

DrugothAug 23, 20171 votes

Imo, 9/10 troll reports are false anyways. Sore losers will often report a teammate they claim is trolling when the reality is that person may not have actually trolled at all. The important distinguisher with trolling is intent.

Unfortunately the tribunal is very slow as was proved in the past, some cases were backlogged 6 months or more. Players were getting punished for things they didn't even remember doing.

Another problem with the tribunal system for punishing trolls is that clearly the community's definition of trolling varies greatly which will lead to inconsistent punishments.

In conclusion, it is my opinion that Riot should continue utilizing and improving on the IFS, since it can be fully and directly controlled by them how punishments will be handled at all times. On top of the system, being fully automated, be able to keep up with reports in a timely and efficient manner. If the IFS can reach it's dream of becoming as effecient as a machine can be, then the punishments will be handled out promptly and with accuracy.

There is no need for a tribunal which puts the responsibility and more importantly, burden on the community to judge their peers when they shouldn't have to.

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