Why should players be banned for being toxic

Elirria·Dec 24, 2017·3 votes·1,981 views

In my opinion, i think players getting banned for being toxic doesn't really make sense at all. How about instead of giving the player a 14-day ban and then a permaban you just take away chat with them for a long period. They can work their way up to a couple of months and if they continue then remove chat privileges completely and they can try again next season. People who spend money on the game to support riot shouldn't be banned because they flame people the solution isn't to ban them it's to take their chat away from them. This does not include players who int and troll

23 Comments

SarutobiDec 24, 20177 votes

Because they already tried that and it didnt work. It didnt help people become less toxic/help them reform, it basically made them be toxic in other ways to ruin the game like trolling/intentionally losing the match. If it didnt work the first time, why would it magically work this time around? People who spend money on this game should be doing it because they like the game want to support it, not because they should be able to break the rules and get away with it. No other type of game, or services does stuff like that. Just follow the rules, its not that difficult.

PerniiciousDec 24, 20171 votes

[deleted]

SarutobiDec 24, 20177 votes

But why give them so many chances especially when they dont actually learn anything? This is the reason why the permamute failed. People thought it was perfectly ok to be toxic, because in their eyes chat restrictions isnt really a punishment. You have to remember at the end of the day this is a game. Something you should be doing to relax and enjoy. Yes, things are going to get heated because it is a competitive game, but you still need to be mature and sportsmanlike. Its just the same as regular sports. If you are toxic while in a match you will get benched and depending on the circumstances you get fined and possibly fired if you keep breaking the rules. This is no different. If you cannot follow the rules you will end up getting ban, and you have no one to blame but yourself!

JaFosteOhMeuDec 24, 20173 votes

dude i literally had an acc perma banned because after a 14 days ban all i did was say "?" in all chat after i got a kill or two in a gank by the enemy jungler, riot said it was abusive and that it was not tolorated, telling me i was toxic, before that on the 14 days ban? yea i was hell of a toxic player but after that? not really, if questioning the oponent for his/hers mistake is being toxic then let 99% of the comunity be banned

SarutobiDec 24, 20177 votes

Now were you spamming "?"? Because that spamming is also against the rules. If not then there is probably more to the story than you are actually telling us. If you want to discuss your ban by all means make a post, or contact Support. Because sadly i just dont believe you. Ive yet to see someone ban just for saying ?. Like i said there was probably more to this!

FullmuteAll playDec 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Now were you spamming "?"? Because that spamming is also against the rules. If not then there is probably more to the story than you are actually telling us. If you want to discuss your ban by all means make a post, or contact Support. Because sadly i just dont believe you. Ive yet to see someone ban just for saying ?. Like i said there was probably more to this!

Idk if you saw my first autistic response to you, I just got burnt that I couldn't replace small letter with big letter, as the system was recognizing shift+A as a shortcut for text selection.

My question to you and advisors. Is there any proves that spamming "?" is against the rules ? This spam really annoys me, but I didn't know it is legit report.

SarutobiDec 25, 20174 votes

Well there is no proof persay, but it is against the rules to spam, so it's only logical to think that spamming pings would also be a reportable/bannable offense. Riot has more information to this as they can see how often you use your ping so the system could see it as spamming!

FullmuteAll playDec 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well there is no proof persay, but it is against the rules to spam, so it's only logical to think that spamming pings would also be a reportable/bannable offense. Riot has more information to this as they can see how often you use your ping so the system could see it as spamming!

ah, I thought you were talking about spamming "?" in chat as a symbol.

JaFosteOhMeuDec 26, 20171 votes

well everytime they failed a gank, the thing is that i had been toxic before and was out of 14 day ban, it atomaticly took me as still being toxic

ModPeriscopeDec 24, 20173 votes

If 10 and 25 game chat restrictions don't curb a player's behavior, why should we go with longer chat restrictions?

This didn't work, let's do more of it!

scribbles782Dec 24, 20172 votes

If they deserve month-long chat restrictions, they probably are prone to being tilted pretty easily and they probably feed in a lot of games and ruin peoples' games for that reason. They do deserve to be banned.

ModPrandineDec 24, 20172 votes

Riot tried that once before and many people with that punishment just resorted to gameplay trolling instead. Riot Tantram even posted about this a few months ago:

It really breaks down into two categories.

1.) Helping players reform 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost.

We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely.

We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it.

We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling.

The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS.

So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat?

Also spending money =/= immunity to the rules. To quote Kei143:

When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client.

From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment.

I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic.

Sir TickleswordDec 24, 20171 votes

Because they tried perma mute. It didn't work, in fact players that were muted were toxic in other ways. It's also a majority agreement: we want to play a game, not deal with someone being immature. So rules were established and a ban system was made that promotes reforming. It's a negative feedback system that is trying to tell you your behavior is unacceptable. If you really can't see that saying and doing certain things does affect others, especially when you have a common goal, then you are a selfish asshole.

ElirriaJan 3, 20181 votes

Saying would I have more feeders or less negative chat is not the question you should be asking, the toxic players aren't the feeders most of the time the toxic players are the good players who get mad at the feeders which are the people who report. I would rather have a great jungler who calls me a %%%%%% %%%got then gets chat removed from him/her after then an 0-10 morgana jungle that says I'm a good fizz and sorry 24/7 for feeding. The people who get perma banned aren't people who are toxic and creating a game ruining experience they are people who have made mistakes no matter how many times it is. If Riot really would rather have players perma banned who spend $500 over payers who probably spend more then they woud give those players their money back. If I was the owner of Riot I would start laughing at anyone who said that because why would I not perma ban someone when you know theyre going to make a new account spend ever more money on xp boost and to buy new champs with this new blue essence that makes it 10000 times harder to buy champs. For all you butthurt players that are sad that a 10-0 zed calls you fucking garbage because you fed and weren't the best that game then mute which players never really do because if they did then people wouldn't be getting banned as much. You butt hurt players are being fooled by Riot thinking that theyre getting getting rid of toxic players when really they are just banning them earning more money when they make new accounts and buy more thing from Riot. The perma mute didn't work and I wasn't playing when that was a thing so I wouldn't know but this perma ban system is even worse. To answer your question I would rather have less feeding players but you question does not apply to most situations so I have a better question for you. Would you play with a 10-0 Fizz main who flames you and you can mute two games in a row and you win, or a 0-7 ashe adc who says sorry and dosent speak much at all and loses you the game. If you pick the second option you are most likely the 0-7 ashe and there is a reason people flame you and I and many other would rather have you permanltly banned and have waste your money to level up and buy champs and skins again and not have you play ranked with you for a while than have a good player banned because you don't know what youre doing.

side note I don't have time to correct spelling mistakes spending my 4am trying to reason with feeders that they are being lied to

ModPrandineJan 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Saying would I have more feeders or less negative chat is not the question you should be asking, the toxic players aren't the feeders most of the time the toxic players are the good players who get mad at the feeders which are the people who report. I would rather have a great jungler who calls me a %%%%%% %%%got then gets chat removed from him/her after then an 0-10 morgana jungle that says I'm a good fizz and sorry 24/7 for feeding.

Answer me this though: what's to stop someone who's had their chat removed from griefing other players through gameplay means such as intentionally feeding, trolling or afking? Also, while it's natural to be upset and annoyed by these kinds of people when has yelling and raging at them in the chat actually stopped them from intentionally feeding, afking or trolling?

The people who get perma banned aren't people who are toxic and creating a game ruining experience they are people who have made mistakes no matter how many times it is.

While that is true, they are also the people who showed that they were not willing or able to learn from their mistakes enough to stop displaying that kind of behavior on a frequent enough basis to avoid being permabanned.

If Riot really would rather have players perma banned who spend $500 over payers who probably spend more then they woud give those players their money back. If I was the owner of Riot I would start laughing at anyone who said that because why would I not perma ban someone when you know theyre going to make a new account spend ever more money on xp boost and to buy new champs with this new blue essence that makes it 10000 times harder to buy champs.

Why should they give someone who had consistently showed no interest in interacting with others in a mature and respectful (neutral or positive) manner their money back? Other businesses in real life don't do this if you consistently act up, and Riot is no exception.

As for your claim that Riot forces people to buy more stuff on newer accounts by banning them, from Ulanopo's Knowledge Base:

Riot bans people because they make money off of forcing people to create new accounts and repurchase the skins.

Just stop. This is a really silly argument. I didnt pay for my account any more than you did and while I have bought a number of things, I didnt have to. Theres nothing relevant to competitive play that I couldnt have bought with IP.

Also, Riot actively discourages people from making new accounts.

From Lyte: (link (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=33432435#post33432435))

Actually, if we're permabanning you we don't want your money or your time. Just find another game.

(Help from MadmanWithBox)

While I will agree that Blue Essence should be easier to get than it is now, the premise of the point Ulanopo made still stands.

For all you butthurt players that are sad that a 10-0 zed calls you fucking garbage because you fed and weren't the best that game then mute which players never really do because if they did then people wouldn't be getting banned as much. You butt hurt players are being fooled by Riot thinking that theyre getting getting rid of toxic players when really they are just banning them earning more money when they make new accounts and buy more thing from Riot. The perma mute didn't work and I wasn't playing when that was a thing so I wouldn't know but this perma ban system is even worse. To answer your question I would rather have less feeding players but you question does not apply to most situations so I have a better question for you.

A bit of advice: if you can't make a point without resorting to things like insults and name-calling then chances are that it wasn't really that important to begin with.

At any rate, the mute button =/= a get out of jail free card. If you can't interact with others without forcing them to mute you then you're doing something wrong. Also again, as for your claim that Riot forces people to buy more stuff on newer accounts by banning them, from Ulanopo's Knowledge Base:

Riot bans people because they make money off of forcing people to create new accounts and repurchase the skins.

Just stop. This is a really silly argument. I didnt pay for my account any more than you did and while I have bought a number of things, I didnt have to. Theres nothing relevant to competitive play that I couldnt have bought with IP.

Also, Riot actively discourages people from making new accounts.

From Lyte: (link (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=33432435#post33432435))

Actually, if we're permabanning you we don't want your money or your time. Just find another game.

(Help from MadmanWithBox)

Perma-mutes didn't work because the people who normally behaved poorly in chat just switch to other means of griefing others like trolling and intentionally feeding. Riot and the community as a whole want this kind of behavior stopped and these kinds of people gone from the game if they refuse to stop, hence why gameplay related offenses are given a 2-week ban as the first punishment instead of a chat restriction. Yes Riot can't stop people from making new accounts but what they can do is keep banning them if they continue to act up until they either shape up or ship out.

Would you play with a 10-0 Fizz main who flames you and you can mute two games in a row and you win, or a 0-7 ashe adc who says sorry and dosent speak much at all and loses you the game. If you pick the second option you are most likely the 0-7 ashe and there is a reason people flame you and I and many other would rather have you permanltly banned and have waste your money to level up and buy champs and skins again and not have you play ranked with you for a while than have a good player banned because you don't know what youre doing.

Personally I'd rather have neither of them, but your attitude right now is the kind that's not welcome here. There's a difference between feeding due to poor play and feeding due to trying to ruin the game. The former doesn't deserve to be punished (provided that they're not using the "poor play" excuse to troll) while the latter does.

On the topic of good players being banned pro League of Legends players have been suspended and/or banned for displaying poor behavior, IWDominate, Jensen and DarkwinJax being prominent examples, the latter of which still isn't allowed to play professionally due to that very reason. Both Dominate and Jensen (formerly known as Incarnati0n) proved that they cleaned up their acts and were allowed to play professionally again, though their permabanned accounts are still gone forever. It doesn't matter how good you are if you are known to have behavioral issues, as those behavior issues end up overshadowing your skills at the game, with Dardoch being a prominent example of that. Is he a good player? Yes but what people remember most about him is his attitude problem rather than his LoL skills.

To sum all it up if you can't or won't interact with others in a neutral or positive manner then neither Riot nor the community want you here, nor are you entitled to a refund either. There's no ulterior motive behind permabanning players other than trying to deliver the message "you had your chances to reform, blew them and now you're paying the price for it." If you disagree with the way Riot and the community as a whole have decided the game should be run behavior wise then you're more than willing to go find a game with less strict rules regarding player behavior.

ElirriaJan 4, 20181 votes

Then why not make a que where only the toxic people play with each other I forgot what game it was but they don't stop people from playing they put them all in a system where they play with each other. And the community doesn't decide anything to prove the point I would bet that if Riot put a poll in asking the community questions it would contradicted everything you just said. Ask the players if they have been banned before a good sum of people will say yes, if they have had a chat ban id bet more then 60% of people would say yes a little less for twice. Now ask the players if they have been perma banned and if I'm wrong about this id uninstall and never pay again; there will be more than 0.0006% which I think is the number riot says it the percent of the community that is toxic enough to get perma banned and the percentage will be way higher. This wont even be including the people who stopped playing after they got perma banned. I don't support trump in any way shape or form but his point of view in situations like this is what makes change. If youre doing bad and someone calls you garbage you shouldn't be crying about it saying why this person shouldnt be able to play the game which is something you have probably done yourself. Riot dosent listen to the community and when it does it listens to people like you which is a reason why things don't change like a better ranking system, they would rather hand out perma bans. Like in the real world like a perma ban there's prison but on the internet there's no such thing you can never stop anyone from playing league no matter how you try. So instead of banning people how about you try to find a solution so that everyone can play and make everyone happy. Id like to not have a feeding teemo top who's really nice and you'd like to not have a toxic talon flaming you for feeding as teemo top. Now tell me a solution that's not banning someone and that's not go play another game

ModPrandineJan 4, 2018

{quoted}

Then why not make a que where only the toxic people play with each other I forgot what game it was but they don't stop people from playing they put them all in a system where they play with each other.

That's Prisoners Island and Riot is never gonna do that. To see why, check here.

And the community doesn't decide anything to prove the point I would bet that if Riot put a poll in asking the community questions it would contradicted everything you just said.

Did you know that the IFS was created based in part on community feedback?

Ask the players if they have been banned before a good sum of people will say yes, if they have had a chat ban id bet more then 60% of people would say yes a little less for twice. Now ask the players if they have been perma banned and if I'm wrong about this id uninstall and never pay again; there will be more than 0.0006% which I think is the number riot says it the percent of the community that is toxic enough to get perma banned and the percentage will be way higher. This wont even be including the people who stopped playing after they got perma banned. I don't support trump in any way shape or form but his point of view in situations like this is what makes change.

Yes there are a good number of people who have received some form of punishment (just a simple look through PB will tell you that). However, for some of those people it takes getting punished once or a few times for the message to sink in that being a jerk to others is not tolerated here.

If youre doing bad and someone calls you garbage you shouldn't be crying about it saying why this person shouldnt be able to play the game which is something you have probably done yourself.

Again a bit of advice: if you can't make your point without resorting to things like insults and name-calling then chances are that it wasn't really that important to begin with.

Calling a poor performing player garbage does nothing to help them improve their gameplay and the time you spent typing out that insult could have been better spent playing the actual game itself, or at the very least offering some actual helpful feedback to that poor performing player.

Riot dosent listen to the community and when it does it listens to people like you which is a reason why things don't change like a better ranking system, they would rather hand out perma bans. Like in the real world like a perma ban there's prison but on the internet there's no such thing you can never stop anyone from playing league no matter how you try.

If Riot truly didn't listen to the community then they wouldn't have done allot of things, such as:

Bringing back Winter Summoner's Rift. Offering in-game rewards to those behaving properly. Reversing or lessen bans done in error. Allowing players to get champs and skins easier via hextech crafting. Adding Blue Essence as a reward for First Win of the Day.

These are just some examples of many. While I don't agree with all of Riot's decisions (removing Dominion as a permanent game mode being one of them) they do listen to the community. Just because Riot isn't doing what you and some others want doesn't mean that they aren't listening.

Riot is well aware that they can't stop people from making new accounts and that some people will always be toxic no matter what. All they can do is continue to punish them on their new account if they continue to act up, or worse case scenario ID ban them.

So instead of banning people how about you try to find a solution so that everyone can play and make everyone happy. Id like to not have a feeding teemo top who's really nice and you'd like to not have a toxic talon flaming you for feeding as teemo top. Now tell me a solution that's not banning someone and that's not go play another game

You know as well as I do that there's no magical solution that's gonna make everyone happy. At this moment in time the only things that Riot can do is discourage poor behavior via punishments and reform cards and ban the ones that refuse to shape up.

ROCKOZIO2Jan 4, 20181 votes

[deleted]

Imperial PandaaJan 4, 20181 votes

I think I just lost IQ points trying to figure out if he had a point or is just trolling for attention. Seems like the latter.

Imperial PandaaJan 4, 20181 votes

The .006% is based on number of accounts not number of players. The reason why that number works today still is because of the vast number of accounts people may have. Some who are perm banned may make a new account. Some who have never been punished may make a new account. Accounts locked for security reasons are not actually banned and some other factors.