In the context of asking for reports

This Is Your Dad··4 votes·5,294 views

I think that asking for reports can be harassment, of course. But I also think that people sometimes slip into the habit of applying real life logic to a situation that doesn't require it. If I go to the police to report a crime, I may be asked to provide evidence, via a witness. I understand that since Riot is Big Brother in the sense that they see all and know all in regards to chat, asking for reports can be seen as nothing short of unwarranted harassment, but I also think that many people slip into the affirmation mentality that normally applies to real life situations. Sometimes, when you are harassed verbally to the point of becoming irritated, you may forget that one report = x reports. Sometimes it becomes more of a plea for sympathy, rallying behind the masses so as to validate your own suspicions. This is just food for thought. This is not me trying to defend: "Report x for feeding" "report x for trash" or "report x for owning a Teemo skin." I understand the rules are what they are, and will not change, and no I did not get punished for anything. I just want to share my perspective as it pertains to the issue of some seemingly toxic habitual behaviors.

28 Comments

elduris3 votes

Yes, there was some clarifying posts stating this exactly. It can be considered harassment, in the right context. But the simple act of just asking for a report is not something that, by itself, is punishable.

This applies to most things people might consider "bannable". Context is super important and a lot of people just see it as a black or white issue.

Chønklord1 votes

So are we to understand that Riot (IFS system) understands player intent in order to determine "context" on whether or not someone is utilizing "report calling" as a form of harassment; or is just under the misguided belief that another player is guilty of some wrongdoing?

elduris1 votes

Generally speaking, the IFS can determine if something is "harassment" or not.

Chønklord1 votes

Oh, really?

This is the first I've heard that the IFS is capable of determining player intentions.

Do you have detailed sources on this?

elduris1 votes

I didn't say it determines what a player's precise intent is, despite what words you're putting into my mouth.

I said it can, generally speaking, determine if something is "harassment" or not.

Chønklord1 votes

Ok. So inform me then how the IFS would treat the following, according to your statement of "it can determine if something is harassment -- generally speaking":

  1. Player X goes 1-7 playing Ashe mid -- not intentionally feeding but just a bad game
  2. Player Y gets frustrated and says "can everyone report Player X for int feeding and trolling please? thanks"
EyeSlae1 votes

Riota says ur bad, then ur bad, Rito says u good then u good. There are no set standards fools just the whims of people. Get over it.

MagicFlyingLlama2 votes

The only thing a report does is trigger a review. One report, from anyone (unless they made so many false reports that their reports just go into the trash bin automatically).

It is not allowed and is harassment, and frequently punished with chat restrictions or even bans. Anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or in denial of the evidence, including quite straightly stated facts from riot.

ModUlanopo3 votes

They later clarified. Asking for reports is considered harassment. It just doesn't rise to the level of things like racial slurs and death threats.

RiotRiot Tantram4 votes

^ This

Chønklord1 votes

You say "this ^"

Which means you agree that:

Asking for reports is considered harassment. It just doesn't rise to the level of things like racial slurs and death threats.

Yet down below you state:

Saying, 'Remember to report the graves for constantly telling our top laner to kill themself', is not punishable. Saying, 'Report our top laner for feeding', which they were just having a bad game, is punishable.

So how do you know when someone saying "report soandso for x offense" is using it as a form of harassment versus genuinely believing they're "in the right" when asking for reports?

Let's say:

  1. Player X goes 0-10 top lane (but is having a bad game, according to the IFS system, and NOT int feeding)

  2. Player Y (with good intentions but objectively incorrect) assumes Player X is "int feeding" and calls for reports "please report player X for int feeding thank you"


  • How do you (the IFS) determine if Player Y is harassing Player X, or not?

  • How do you determine if Player Y should be punished, or not?

  • How do you (the IFS) determine the intentions behind the player asking for reports?

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k0tL1els,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-17T23:14:46.073+0000)

You say "this ^"

Which means you agree that:

Yet down below you state:

So how do you know when someone saying "report soandso for x offense" is using it as a form of harassment versus genuinely believing they're "in the right" when asking for reports?

Let's say:

Player X goes 0-10 top lane (but is having a bad game, according to the IFS system, and NOT int feeding)

Player Y (with good intentions but objectively incorrect) assumes Player X is "int feeding" and calls for reports "please report player X for int feeding thank you"

How do you (the IFS) determine if Player Y is harassing Player X, or not?

How do you determine if Player Y should be punished, or not?

He didn't say they would be punished, he said if someone tells someone to kill themselves and you ask for a report against that player you won't be punished for asking for a report, but you really should avoid asking people to report people for feeding because it's harder to detect whether or not it's intentional.

Chønklord1 votes

but you really should avoid asking people to report people for feeding because it's harder to detect whether or not it's intentional.

This is the part I've been trying to get them to clarify.

He didn't say they would be punished, he said if someone tells someone to kill themselves and you ask for a report against that player you won't be punished for asking for a report

Even so, since we know that one report is all it takes, "asking for reports" never leads anywhere, except as you've stated "making [the report caller] feel good/validated".

I still don't see that as an objectively valid reason to let report calling 'be a thing', when it leads to so much confusion with a lot of players thinking that by asking for reports, they're somehow making League "a safer place", assuming that more reports will somehow be validated by Riot and punish the "offender".

Cosnirak1 votes

The problem is that no matter what Riot's stance on the issue is, many players will be unaware of that stance and will act based on their assumptions. Riot doesn't want to punish people for not knowing that they in fact are not making things better by asking for a report on someone who legitimately should be reported. If it seems like your intention was to make League better, even if your actions weren't facilitating that, they aren't going to punish you for it so long as any negative consequence of your actions is minor at most.

Trying to create a hard line stance of not allowing people to ask for reports at all might never be intuitive to players, so Riot probably isn't going to take such a stance. It'd be nice if they could make that their stance and even explain why and let everybody know. But many players do not read patch notes, their 'required' agreements to even play in the first place, or the little notifications we get when something is disable or whatever.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

Nobody ever believed that it did, and nobody has ever gotten an instant two week suspension from asking for reports.

What I don't understand is why some Rioter would make a thread claiming that asking for reports is no longer punishable if it actually still is.

RiotRiot Tantram10 votes

It was an attempt at providing some clarity to the nuance.

Saying, 'Remember to report the graves for constantly telling our top laner to kill themself', is not punishable. Saying, 'Report our top laner for feeding', which they were just having a bad game, is punishable.

There was a post on reddit complaining that 'asking for reports causes bans', and there was a lot of conversation about it. This is what prompted the post. It ended up causing more confusion, which is when I tried to explain it a little better.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

What about in cases where no reason is given? Someone just saying in all chat- "report champion".

IcyPepper1 votes

Depends on frequency, in my opinion. If it's chronic, it's irritating and worth reporting. If it's a one time thing, sounds more like context-less bitching and the one time could be ignored for the most part. We're not perfect, after all.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

{quoted}

Depends on frequency, in my opinion. If it's chronic, it's irritating and worth reporting. If it's a one time thing, sounds more like context-less bitching and the one time could be ignored for the most part. We're not perfect, after all.

I'm only referring to a one-time thing. I personally get annoyed when my chat is spammed with "report x player" and usually it makes me less likely to report them anyway

Chønklord1 votes

Your opinion, sure.

What is the actual policy from Riot, though?

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k0tL1els,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-04-17T22:10:44.800+0000)

What about in cases where no reason is given? Someone just saying in all chat- "report champion".

Most of the time if there is no reason the reason is implied in the behavior of the champion. Let's say I go adc and my support drops three wards in the middle of the lane and spams abilities for no reason. That doesn't really show up in chat, but is so obvious to the enemy team that it doesn't need an explanation.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

That isn't something the automated system can see though. Remember- it uses and sees virtually no context. If you said "report player" in chat, thats the only thing the instant feedback system sees, chat but not gameplay. It would be no different if you said it for no reason even if someone was obviously trolling/feeding/etc.

Chønklord2 votes

And let's say that top laner was oh... I don't know... 0-11, and just having a really bad game, but some other person believed they were int feeding (even though objectively they were not), but subjectively that other teammate believed they were and did "report top laner for feeding" -- do they get punished still?

ModThe Djinn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k0tL1els,comment-id=000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2017-04-17T22:30:41.595+0000)

And let's say that top laner was oh... I don't know... 0-11, and just having a really bad game, but some other person believed they were int feeding (even though objectively they were not), but subjectively that other teammate believed they were and did "report top laner for feeding" -- do they get punished still?

I'd imagine this is probably borderline. If you don't have an obvious case of intentional feeding it's not cool to assume it is, so this is definitely not GOOD behavior. I doubt it'll be a problem occasionally if the player is otherwise in good standing, but they really should probably have addressed the player in question politely first and found out if they're just having a bad game.

It starts to be DEFINITELY unacceptable if the player keeps going on about it though.

Chønklord2 votes

Unfortunately we can speculate all we want, but I'm looking to get an answer from Riot Tantram about this -- as I have been trying to get an answer out of Riot since they made their "clarifying" posts a month ago.

Great Muta1 votes

I think it's only natural if you are asking for someone's report to give a reason. People are going to ask anyway if you don't.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

{quoted}

The only thing a report does is trigger a review. One report, from anyone (unless they made so many false reports that their reports just go into the trash bin automatically).

It is not allowed and is harassment, and frequently punished with chat restrictions or even bans. Anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or in denial of the evidence, including quite straightly stated facts from riot.

Right, and I understand this. I was just saying that habitual behaviors can occur when a player becomes so toxic that people seek unity in asking for reports, as we might do in a real life situation. We seek affirmation.

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