Boards›Player Behavior

You know, if you want "toxicity" to go away...

Niyumi·8/13/2017, 10:21:56 PM·2 votes·947 views

Then stop making such a big deal about it. Hell, I'd never even heard the term "toxicity" outside of scientific context until I started playing League, and I've been playing online games since Diablo 2 and Runescape were big.

But, as long as the community (and Riot) makes such a big deal about "toxicity" (which, by the way, is actually very, very, VERY common behavior in many competitive settings, even some professional ones, to the point I wouldn't use a word with negative connotations like "toxic"), it's never going to get better. The more negative attention that surrounds the whole thing, the more attention-starved kids are goinna freak out about it. And I'm not just talking about the people being punished, I'm also talking about the people who act all holier-than-thou about people who get banned / chat restricted, and join Tantrum with "smiting" people like an asshat. They become hyper sensitive and spur on the trolls when they freak out about chat or something, and it just creates a big loop.

So, you wanna fix the whole "toxicity" issue?

Step 1: Fire Tantrum. Smug asshats like that are not going to make a single player behave better. All he'll do is create more issues.

Step 2: If a player is chat restricted in the game, or banned, do not allow them to post on the forums. If you can't do that, then just delete any post with people complaining about being banned (unless it has a good reason to stay up).

Step 3: Rework the escalating punishment system. Make the punishments painful from the start, but not too harsh, and make them relevant to their offense. Someone is trolling or feeding? Put them in a 20 minute queue for the next few days. Someone is being an asshat in chat? Just keep the current chat restriction system. Someone is scripting or boosting? Just ban them outright. Don't be lazy and say you can't track things, because you absolutely can and have shown you can on multiple occasions.

Step 4: Stop talking about toxicity. Don't give it any attention or thought, and just let the system quietly do its job. Also delete player posts talking about toxicity.

Step 5: If reform is actually your goal, then hire people to talk to people who are repeatedly being punished (according to you it's a VERY small number, so you can't say you don't have enough people) and try to help them with their issues instead of just outright banning them, then having them make a new account and becoming even more of an asshat.

Been playing MMOs for many years now, and I've never seen a community so entirely asinine as League's is. But that's because both the community and Riot encourage it.

So, if you actually care about the whole toxicity issue that's been bubbling up a lot, do something about it. But then, I don't really believe you do care, since banning someone means they have to re-buy skins and all that. You're certainly welcome to prove me wrong though.

31 Comments

Subdue8/13/2017, 11:00:02 PM5 votes

Guy with no understanding of the difference between LoL and an MMO trying to lecture Riot. Classic.

Chermorg8/13/2017, 10:53:29 PM5 votes

  1. Tantram doesn't create issues. All he does is tell the rest of the boards when people are lying.

  2. I can agree with this, but some people legitimately don't understand why they got banned and need help pointing it out.

  3. You literally just described the current system. Chat punishments go 10 game CR (restriction), 25 game CR, 14 day ban, then permanent ban. Gameplay offenses (trolling/intentional feeding/etc) start from 14 day ban. Scripting/third party programs start with permanent ban.

  4. Trying to push something under the rug doesn't do anything to stop it. Sexual assault is a very good example. For the longest time it wasn't talked about. It wasn't understood. Now that it's talked about and mandatory training at many universities, the incidences of college-age sexual violence have gone down dramatically.

  5. It isn't Riot's job to babysit people into being in compliance with the Terms of Service. If you are caught with an illegal controlled substance, you may get a warning the first time (like a fine, and avoid prison time). But if you keep doing it, you get escalating prison sentences. You don't get anyone coddling you and watching what you do such as "oh Johnny careful that's an illegal substance" or anything. People are expected to have self control and the maturity to improve their own behavior. It's not Riot's job to coddle people.

Douglas Funnie8/13/2017, 11:57:04 PM3 votes

To reduce the amount of verbal toxicity, Riot needs to focus on the root cause: Trolls/feeders/afkers/etc. Once Riot understand this, League's community will be at a healthier state, believe me.

Players have complete control over verbal based Toxicity with the mute function. Players, however, do not have control over other players actions during champ select/in-game.

ModPeriscope8/14/2017, 12:32:48 AM2 votes

When players come on here and either lie or are inaccurate when describing their punishment history, I feel it is informative for Tantram to correct that player's incorrect post.

Drugoth8/14/2017, 4:33:53 PM2 votes

Opening your suggestions with firing a key staff member may not have been a good idea...

ModPrandine8/14/2017, 4:09:49 AM1 votes

Step 1: Fire Tantrum. Smug asshats like that are not going to make a single player behave better. All he'll do is create more issues.

I fail to see how Tantram is a problem here. When he does post here it's usually to help clear up confusion and/or call out people who are consciously lying about something (i.e. their punishment, their chat logs, how the system works, etc.). Yes on his own he may not make much of a difference, but that's why this is a team effort with both Riot and the community as a whole.

Step 2: If a player is chat restricted in the game, or banned, do not allow them to post on the forums. If you can't do that, then just delete any post with people complaining about being banned (unless it has a good reason to stay up).

I can understand your reasoning for not wanting punished people to post on the boards, but allot of times when people post about their punishments they do it out of confusion as to what they did to get it in the first place. Now obviously some are more clear about wanting advice than others are but by letting them post they can potentially get the help that they need to fix whatever issues they have with their account and/or behavior.

Also, though it's fairly uncommon posts and threads are deleted if the poster is only interested in insulting everyone and everything rather than having an actual discussion about a topic.

Step 3: Rework the escalating punishment system. Make the punishments painful from the start, but not too harsh, and make them relevant to their offense. Someone is trolling or feeding? Put them in a 20 minute queue for the next few days. Someone is being an asshat in chat? Just keep the current chat restriction system. Someone is scripting or boosting? Just ban them outright. Don't be lazy and say you can't track things, because you absolutely can and have shown you can on multiple occasions.

That's actually how the current system works. Chat related offenses start with a 10-game chat restriction and escalate to a 25-game restriction before moving to game time bans. Gameplay related offenses start with a 2-week ban followed by a permaban if their behavior doesn't change. There's two main reasons as to why chat-based offenses are the common post here:

  1. They're more common and are easier to track compared to gameplay-related offenses.
  2. Usually the people punished for things like trolling and intentional feeding know what they were punished for and thus have no reason to come to the boards to complain about it.

Step 4: Stop talking about toxicity. Don't give it any attention or thought, and just let the system quietly do its job. Also delete player posts talking about toxicity.

If it doesn't get talked about then how can we implement improvements to it and the systems that reward players for good behavior? Sweeping it under the rug would change nothing and it's because it's talked about that we even have today's systems in place.

Step 5: If reform is actually your goal, then hire people to talk to people who are repeatedly being punished (according to you it's a VERY small number, so you can't say you don't have enough people) and try to help them with their issues instead of just outright banning them, then having them make a new account and becoming even more of an asshat.

Under normal circumstances people are given 2-4 chances to change their behavior for the better before their account gets permabanned. By coming to the boards to discuss their punishments and the punishment system players can get insight as to what is considered the wrong way to handle certain situations and what they can do in the future to handle them better if/when they pop up again. That being said though however, it is up to the player to be willing to listen to criticism, be open to change and not lash out at everyone trying to help them out or try to intentionally mislead people by acting their behavior was tamer than it actually was, and it's also up to the people trying to help them to not immediately bite the posters head off once they post.

hexarte8/16/2017, 2:57:35 AM1 votes

I'm sorry you feel this way, but toxicity is actually slang for CYBER HARASSMENT. A very real crime, punishable by law with a hefty fine and jail time. And that doesn't even include court charges. If you do end up with bail that's another fee you end up paying for on top of the fine, and court charges. That's a lot of money. A lot of time and a huge headache.

And then factor in that suicide is rising higher in younger generations, your very words could be the trigger for someone ending their life. And in some states, most notably New York, depending on the form of language you used and time of decease and the time you typed it out, that could mean 15 years to life in prison.

This is a very serious topic, telling someone to "go kill yourself" is a crime, and do you really want that on your conscience?

EvilDustMan8/13/2017, 11:00:20 PM1 votes

HotS had a ridiculous community shortly after the start. I might put up with it in a game that is mostly solo. But in a team game? Where it is tense and my teammates won't shut up about every mistake?

KVbqbFsC8e8/14/2017, 2:05:40 AM1 votes

Toxicity will never go away. Lyte was delusional to think that it was possible. Its something Riot needs to realize will always exist, especially in a game where you are punished because of your teammates mistakes.

Squidwards House8/14/2017, 3:04:32 AM1 votes

runescape used to be big? LOOOL

FurriesAreHot8/14/2017, 3:40:04 AM1 votes

Regarding Tantram, most people he "smites" plead innocent despite being guilty as fuck.