I found the best comment in the world on a youtube video on what Riot needs to do.

Shosha··5 votes·2,068 views

"To drop my few cents on the topic, I disagree with Riot's punishment-philosophy. The way I personally think it should be, would split punishments into two categories regarding Gameplay and the Chat. A chat-related offense should receive a chat-related punishment such as restricting the player from using the all-chat and limiting the amount of messages he can send. But it should not be answered with limited or permanent account-bans, as players have various ways to handle rude messages or spam, such as muting the player sending them or turning off the all-chat or the chat-window as a whole. Gameplay-related offenses, such as intentional feeding or inappropriate amounts of AFKing should be answered with gameplay-restricting punishments such as locking the player out of ranked matchmaking or matchmaking in total for a limited or unlimited time. I believe that this is the way it should get handled because dealing with rude, or using the buzzword 'toxic', players is already a really easy task and I cannot agree with the idea that such behaviour should lock you out of playing the game at any time. I do not intend to encourage uncivil behaviour in the ingame-chat but I personally regard 'flamers' or 'spammers' as way better teammates to have than AFKs or trolls. Yes, they will drag themselves and the team down by making rude comments and unnecessary trashtalk, but an intentional feeder straight up loses your game and potentially even that very important promo you were taking so seriously. I think that Riot needs to neglect some of their efforts to 'reduce 'toxic' behaviour' since the option to mute someone ingame is already granted at any time. This makes players that demand additional focus on preventing rude behaviour, honestly, seem like crybabies and keyboardwarriors. Instead the company should focus on punishing leavers, trolls and intentional feeders. Especially in competitive matchmaking it is not so much rudeness but outright sabotage that should get you punished faster than the other."

To add my own two cents, any account that has been permanently banned for Toxic Behaviour such has flaming and shit talking should be unbanned and instantly put on a permanent chat restriction/ban.

TL;DR Take away peoples chat, if they start to int ban them, just because someone says something you don't like doesn't mean their account should be taken away. Give the toxic perma bans their accounts back but remove their ability to chat.

82 Comments

Sarutobi7 votes

See but they already tried this in the past. If it didnt work, and just made people who were chat ban to just troll, and ruin the experience for others players, why bother? They want to try and solve the problem before it gets worse. And usually when someone is toxic in chat their next means is to ruin it for others by affecting their games! Plus just because there is a mute button doesnt mean you should get free range to use racial slurs, or harass another person. This is a game and should be treated as such. I play to enjoy the game and relax. Not to have people curse at me or anyone else over little mistakes.

Shosha1 votes

They did not try to take people's chat away. And it clearly says if people troll in game IE feeding or afking then they deserve to be perma banned, but I did not int in anyway, and I did not use racial or homophobic words. I got banned for arguing. That shouldn't happen. I shouldn't be banned just because I was arguing. I used 250+ of my OWN money just to have it banned because Riot didn't like me arguing. I do indeed insult people by saying they are bad at the game or they should uninstall, but I don't excessively swear at them, and I have NEVER told anyone to kill themselves, or wished anything upon their families.

SrbLud5 votes

What you just said is i was breaking the rules but not as much as other people, i also spent a lot of money. No one is gona skip you over just cause there are more severe offenders. You break the rules you get a punishment. Riot didn't ban you because "they" didn't like you arguing. People you were playing with reported you for ruining their games in one way or another is why you got banned. Riot doesn't go around randomly picking on people. You had restrictions before the ban and a good idea where it's leading, so why not reform? If you fail to reform the reason you got banned is you don't belong here. Sorry to be that blunt but that's what your teammates are telling you with those reports. Don't take this as an offence or something. Just a random guy passing by giving his 2 cents.

Shosha1 votes

But I also admited I wasn't the nicest guy, I am not saying I don't deserve to be reported. I am saying I should still have my fucking account. I shouldn't have my shit taken away, and AFKers and ints are just casually living their lives. The ban system is swayed the wrong way. This would 100% fix it.

SrbLud1 votes

Riot has their rules and they don't look to change them any time soon. All those AFKers and ints get their bans too. It's just harder to spot them. If you leave a trace of toxicity it's easy to spot since there are chat logs that prove it right away. Those AFKers and ints have a benefit of the doubt since they might be having a bad connection or being outright bad. It takes awhile before it's obvious they are doing it intentionally. That's why they stick longer.

Shosha1 votes

It's quite ez to spot an INT or an AFKer. Context clues are a bitch when it comes to that. Read the chat, look at their build, how long they were in game, what they said, what their team said etc. I will say it away. Toxicity WILL be solved if you just, take their chat away. Like literally. It will be instant.

SrbLud1 votes

That's what riot does now... They take away your chat 2 times...ater that it's only your fault if you continue... Players going AFK have longer que times so they get their gameplay related punishment. If you let someone being toxic and remove bans they are just gonna contine...even when you perm remove chat they will find another way to impact your game...Bans should be there for every offense if it escalates too far... i agree with you that there should be more varied punishments, but if you remove bans you give free reign for all kinds of exploits...

Shosha1 votes

How is removing their bans on their accounts, but taking their chat away giving them free reign to exploits? Like what?

SrbLud3 votes

OK...First of all i think no one should have a ban lifted if it was deserved. Chat restrictions are a punishment not to only stop you from being toxic, but also to show you it is a crucial element of teamplay that you missused and now have to play without it, thus loosing a valuable rescource to win. Chat being a crucial part of teamplay is also why it should never be permanently restricted. If they do decide to lift a permanent ban you have 4 most probable scenarios.

1- the player keeps playing normally and has to suffer not being able to communicate with his team. 2- same as number one but eventually abandons the account and makes a new one to be able to chat. 3-same as number 2 but when he makes the other account goes to his old ways of being toxic. 4-plays with restrictions on his chat but finds another way to express his frustrations towards other players since he can't type ( maybe he starts trolling lanes )

Riot probably had a simillar idea at one point and i would like this to go red so we get an answer from a rioter. They might agree with us or not. But i'm sure they have a lot of reasons, much more viable and better frased than mine. As i said i agree with LoL needing more varied punishments, but lifting bans is never gonna happen if it was earned, and permanent chat restrictions can't have a place in this game since it's a big part of gameplay.

Shosha1 votes

You are just flat wrong on it being a big part of game play.

Smart pings were made for people who can't chat. If they are being toxic, they aren't going to using the chat usefully anyways.

There is literally no downside to just unbanning them and taking their chat away, using the stupid argument of "It's communication" they won't be communicating anyways, I won't be either, I usually just play with friends, on comms, I made a mistake of solo queuing and got wrecked by the unbalanced reporting system.

SrbLud3 votes

Hey you do you. You are entitled to an opinion but you are not entitled to say i'm flat out wrong or call someones argument stupid just cause you don't like it. I gave you my arguments based on facts and personal experience. Riot themselves say chat is a big part of gameplay since it's crucial to communication in teamplay. Yes you can ping. You can ping mia, fall back, coming, close pings for enemy approaching slowly or wide pings for fast approach, pinging positions etc... But try pinging Flash CDs, group, split push ( group and split push can be pinged but not outright obvious and would confuse you ) , voice your opinion on tactics, debate a build path... It's hard as it is when you get restrictions, imagine having that forever. Riot doing that would basically cripple your game experience forever and make you doubt their game and maybe even abandon it (i don't think riot wants that ). They put restrictions to show you what happens when you break the rules so you reform, and if you escalate to the point where you don't show signs of reforming you get banned since the game has no place for you.

Shosha2 votes

Facts? What Facts? I only see opinions. Riot has been known to spout bullshit things, plus with the way things are going if you are Solo queueing anymore you are doing it fucking wrong. Cause lord praise Dynamic Queue and all it's glory. Again Toxic people aren't going to be communicating things like flash timers and debating, if they weren't before, then they won't be now. Nothing changes just because their chat is gone. Just because they got their accounts back, nothing changes, they are themselves still. And currently the way their system is right now, it's only making things worse. Look at Tyler1 He is intentionally making new accounts buying new accounts because he keeps getting perma banned it makes him more and more hateful. If he has no chat then there is no reason for him to keep making other accounts, because well, they aren't banned, he can play on them, but that kid also trolls and afks so they would eventually get banned once more.

SrbLud1 votes

So in your theory they are themselves still, nothing changes, and they go back. That means they will find another way to express themselves.So troll, AFK, feed etc... are viable options for that, which will get them banned. By doing that you don't solve the problem, you just prolong everyones suffering by exposing them to such people, and we have to wait longer to get rid of them. Also the influx of all the banned accounts doing that ( which your theory supports as they would stay the same thus expressing their toxicity by other means ), would break the game for everyone. Imagine all the rightfully banned toxic players invading us with trolling, AFKing and feeding... It would create a huge pool of offenders that have to be banned again just to bring us to the state we are at now. DQ being good or bad is somethig for a whole new thread.

SrbLud1 votes

So riot should reward all the repeat offenders cause there is a chance they might not express their anger in some other way, and risk potentionally punishing players who behave by exposing them to offenders again. Analogy of letting thousands of bank robbers out of the prison and hope some of them don't rob liquor stores.

AramsAreBest3 votes

Just grow up.

PDE5 Inhib1 votes

But then if a player starts to troll, just punish them for trolling?

Sarutobi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jxYVz7jZ,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-04-18T12:40:11.527+0000)

But then if a player starts to troll, just punish them for trolling?

But you can prevent that from happening beforehand by banning toxic players.

PDE5 Inhib3 votes

But you can't say that "toxic" chat players WILL troll. Sure, there's obviously a place for permabanning the 12 year old that just spams "%%%%%%" in chat. That's the type of person that troll. But I see chat logs of permaban players that are "omg dude stop trolling /all plz report for trolling" in a legitimate case of the player trolling, and the community is like "omg u so toxic he having fun asking for report is so bad". I do not feel that the player asking to report a trolling player is going to troll in games when he gets chat banned. I personally like a system where chat offenses are punished by chat punishments and gameplay offenses are punished by gameplay punishments. It's just makes sense to me. Also, I think if they would be more strict with gameplay offenses, there would be less "toxic" chat offenses as well. I personally think that they haven't made progress in the "toxicity" of the community because they are only addressing chat related offenses. It should not take someone 300 consecutive games (including ranked) of literally going 0-40-1 every single game to get punished. I would LOVE for rito to release stats as to how many people were considered "toxic" in a game with that player that would normally be neutral or positive players. Because I think the numbers would show a lot of people that only addressing "toxic" chat is probably the least effective way to go about this.

Sarutobi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jxYVz7jZ,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-18T12:51:00.159+0000)

But you can't say that "toxic" chat players WILL troll. Sure, there's obviously a place for permabanning the 12 year old that just spams "%%%%%%" in chat. That's the type of person that troll. But I see chat logs of permaban players that are "omg dude stop trolling /all plz report for trolling" in a legitimate case of the player trolling, and the community is like "omg u so toxic he having fun asking for report is so bad". I do not feel that the player asking to report a trolling player is going to troll in games when he gets chat banned. I personally like a system where chat offenses are punished by chat punishments and gameplay offenses are punished by gameplay punishments. It's just makes sense to me. Also, I think if they would be more strict with gameplay offenses, there would be less "toxic" chat offenses as well. I personally think that they haven't made progress in the "toxicity" of the community because they are only addressing chat related offenses. It should not take someone 300 consecutive games (including ranked) of literally going 0-40-1 every single game to get punished. I would LOVE for rito to release stats as to how many people were considered "toxic" in a game with that player that would normally be neutral or positive players. Because I think the numbers would show a lot of people that only addressing "toxic" chat is probably the least effective way to go about this.

To be fair though. In the case of people fishing for reports. What is the point? If you report someone and it legitimate, then the system will see it as such and more than likely ban the player especially if they continue to break the rules. Asking people for reports is basically worthless. Plus put into account that people will always lie. If someone claims to be toxic in chat, yet doesnt show it in the chat how exactly are the breaking the rules?

In the case of things like trolling and feeding, a lot of people have very different definitions of the words. Ive seen people who claims someone is trolling just for playing a certain champion. Which isnt always the case. Ive seen people claim "report the feeder" just for losing first blood. All in trying to say is you should be reporting people who you, yourself see as breaking the rules. Not because someone else told you to report someone.

Dont get me wrong. Ive seen some very tame people get ban. But you also have to put into account (in the case of toxic behavioral bans) The chat logs they give doesnt show pre/post chat. So people try to be sly and thinking that they wont get punished because they "dont check those". Also that they dont show you every single detail of past games the person is reported in, only the last 3. So those other games could have been nothing but racial slurs and whatnot! They really should go into more detail and give much more evidence, but its how the system is right now. Its not prefect and its never going to be prefect. People will always try and cheat the system and in that case we as a community has to try and evolve to help strike when things like that happen.

In the case of feeding/trolls you have to remember like i said everyone has a different definition of it. What is considered trolling. The person playing an off meta champion? The person playing badly? The person not building the "correct" items? All those by definition could be considered trolling, or even feeding. Should every person get ban for these types of things? This is the reason why they give leeway for all types of reports (including toxic behavior which some people tend to not believe) and why things like this are hard to actually take action for. You dont want to accuse someone of trolling just because they play a champion in the role that is not normal. Or else you are forcing a meta which is something Riot doesnt want. If you ban the person for doing badly in one game, how do you know he just isnt getting up against people who are far superior? maybe he just isnt feeling 100%. By that logic basically every single person should have been ban since im sure me and you have been in an incident that we wasnt playing well.

All in all, This is what we have to work with for the time being. If someone has any type of suggestion by all means write to Riot HQ, and get your voice heard! But of the suggestions ive seen on the board. Most will hurt the game more than people think it will help.

archerno13 votes

Well all this thread misses is link to dunkey video. Riot tried in past neverending chat restrictions. It backfired ,toxic chat turned into toxic gameplay. You talk too much qbout what riot shoul or shouldnt do but you seem to forget that this game is free to play. Playing here is privilege but you(and not only you) act like its right, like you have right to tell them how they should develop game and its behavior system. Its simple, dynamic q stays, no solo q for now, punishment system stays as it is, game stays free, if u dont like it leave, if u like it enjpy. You put poll, people voted. Dont criticize people now for voting against your opinion.

Shosha1 votes

Why are people voting and not replying, like hello. This a discussion, if you think no, I would like to know why. It seems pretty much like an unbeatable system.

Lauchmelder4 votes

Because it literally boils down to: "Punish AFKs and Feeders while letting the flaming scum flame." I can win a game with an AFK, I can't win a game with a flamer having a loser attitude.

PDE5 Inhib1 votes

If he said to permanently chat ban, then how is he saying "let the flaming scum flame"?

I can win a game with an AFK, I can't win a game with a flamer having a loser attitude.

Stats are against you there. But y u no mute?

Lauchmelder2 votes

Because an AFK is less annoying than a flamer.

PDE5 Inhib1 votes

but y u no mute? Nor did you explain how you think OP is saying "let the flaming scum flame" when he said to permanently chat ban them.

Lauchmelder1 votes

Who said I don't? He gets a report while I am at it too.

EVG Mike2 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jxYVz7jZ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-18T12:41:28.242+0000)

If he said to permanently chat ban, then how is he saying "let the flaming scum flame"?

Stats are against you there. But y u no mute?

Muting a player does not stop their disease from infecting the rest of your team and tilting everyone.

Shosha1 votes

If their chat is TAKEN AWAY. How are they going to flame?!?!?!? CLEARLY no one has read the full fucking post LMAO.

Lauchmelder1 votes

I'm not gonna lie, you are right. I didn't read the whole post because there is no formatting done. Nobody likes to read 1 wall of text. 3 lines with a space inbetween is way easier to read than a wall.

Shosha1 votes

I'm sorry that's the fucking comment? I even made a TL;DR. People need to be less lazy, it takes less than 2 minutes to read it.

Lauchmelder1 votes

It takes way longer to read a wall of text because it's hurting ones eyes...

Shosha1 votes

Again, there is clearly a TL;DR at the bottom. Like Hello? You had to scroll down to get to the comments, you should have fucking seen the big "TL;DR".

Lauchmelder2 votes

It doesn't matter. If you can't behave like a normal human being you aren't welcome in this community. Anybody acting like a civilized Person will never have a problem with bans.

Shosha1 votes

If you can't handle a few rude comments on the internet then get off? Why should I be punished cause someone is a little bitch?

Lauchmelder2 votes

If you can't act like a decent human being why should I put up with your BS?

That Argument goes both ways, and people usually agree with me rather than the flamer.

Shosha2 votes

If the arguement goes both ways, then neither side is wrong. There needs to be a middle ground. There need to be a line, and right now, there isn't one. It's so far swung into the "anything negative = toxic flaming piece of low life shit that should die"

Lauchmelder3 votes

No there shouldn't be a middle ground. Grow the heck up and stop flaming your teammates.

Shosha1 votes

Yes there fucking should be, because everyone opinion varies on what the fuck flame is. Like holy shit. Opinions = Grey area needs to be added. Like there NEEDS to be fucking wiggle room, and anyone that says "No if you are being a rude dude you deserve ban." Is just a narrow minded fool.

Lauchmelder1 votes

"If you have nothing clever to say don't say anything at all." That's a quote from Bambi btw.

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

Mild negativity gets 4 chances to change starting with two chat restrictions. How does that equate to "low life piece of shit that should die"?

But to your point, one side is wrong because one side is doing something that is expressly against the rules. Rules that are based on what most people want.

Shosha1 votes

Rules are based on what Riot wants. Riot has never been community focused. IE Replay system Sandbox mode Permanent Game modes and recently Solo queue.

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

Riot is and always has been community focused. That doesn't mean that they blindly do something because someone or some group of people want something. Riot has final say on what the rules are because it is up to them to decide, but they are still based on what the players want.

Specifically, replays and sandbox are mostly only useful to very serious players, which is a minority. While I would like those features, I understand why they consider their resources better spent elsewhere.

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

Literally everything they do is for the community. But that community is both massive and diverse. Millions of people want vastly different things. Not all of them can be done. There are competing interests.

Like I said, I would like to have both replays and to a much lesser extent sandbox mode. But if I had to choose between say having less ragers in games or replays, I would rather have less ragers. Replays can be reasonably handled by using 3rd party solutions anyway.

EVG Mike7 votes

{quoted}

Why are people voting and not replying, like hello. This a discussion, if you think no, I would like to know why. It seems pretty much like an unbeatable system.

Because this post is stupid. Toxic players have lost me more games than intentional feeders and afkers COMBINE. Bottom line : if you are a jerk this community doesn't want you.

Shosha1 votes

Bottom line is just because people think I am jerk doesn't mean I should have my account taken away. Bottom line is People LET toxic players get to them, you clearly don't know how to mute and move on. I don't know why I made a post in such a community that doesn't even know how to use a mute button. If you don't like what someone say, mute them WOW such a hard task mute them and fucking move on lmao.

EVG Mike1 votes

{quoted}

Bottom line is just because people think I am jerk doesn't mean I should have my account taken away. Bottom line is People LET toxic players get to them, you clearly don't know how to mute and move on. I don't know why I made a post in such a community that doesn't even know how to use a mute button. If you don't like what someone say, mute them WOW such a hard task mute them and fucking move on lmao.

That is exactly what the summoners code says actually. "Don't be a jerk."

Weathered1 votes

Can't argue with that. It's like real life. If you are an asshole you can't play with us.

MasterSomething4 votes

The thing about a voting style board is that you can vote yes or no without saying why or why not. That is a good thing and bad thing. Personally, I like it this way, as I do not like repeating what others said.

PDE5 Inhib1 votes

Nor would forcing a reply solve the issue lol. You just just get a bunch of 'a' responses in the comments lol. They should at least make it so you have to click and view the thread to vote.

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