Is there nothing Riot can do about this?

Empress Red·Jun 21, 2018·3 votes·2,407 views

Two seasons in a row, I have made it to Gold 4, and both times, I have been set back nearly irreparably by other players either running it down mid, dcs, or rage quitting. People who tell you that that's just part of the game and that you just have to be determined to climb have never had the misfortune to have this happen so often and so many times in a row, it drags you into such a bad elo you can't climb out of it because you keep getting more of the same, or people so bad you can't win.

This season, my mmr was so high in gold 5 I was getting diamond players mostly, and then this happens again. I hit this fucking shit with smurfs raging because they don't care, streamers doing so, dcs, people inting, running it down mid. I perform so well. 7 game win streaks, 1 loss, 5 game win streaks, 1 loss, and this is what I'm rewarded with. Does their system really have nothing to help people like this? This should not nearly irreparably damage future games for someone who has nearly pulled through 4v5s but it's just too much. I realize how whiny this sounds, but this is fucking hopeless feeling and awful when you're performing well and this just screws you. Shouldn't have to climb out of it. Spent a whole season, and it just got worse and worse because I got matched with the bottom of the barrel.

I'm not even sure where to post this.

18 Comments

ModThe DjinnJun 21, 20184 votes

Riot can't accurate predict if someone will rage, feed, or disconnect, so no, not really. They've been improving their detection for feeding players, but it's still a hard thing to determine.

The truth is that this sucks, yes, but it happens to both teams. This is why MMR is most accurate over a long number of games played -- if you don't rage/feed/disconnect, there are only FOUR spots on your team that this can occur, and FIVE on your opponent's team, so the balance ultimate works in your favor. Negative confirmation bias, however, always reminds you of the times that your team had a heavy weight on it, and tends to assume that any game where your ENEMY had that heavy weight is just one where you or someone on your team did unusually well. Remember that you're far more likely to remember the game where your top-laner fed 6 kills than the one where the enemy top laner fed 6 kills.

Empress RedJun 21, 20181 votes

Should be something they can do to revert your mmr loss from those matches at least. I won't pretend to know how it works but surely they should know how it works and how that gets ticked off. They can't predict it, but surely can tell after the fact. Just have to watch a replay to see a rage quit.

I get it's automated mostly. They aren't going to put in manpower for that.

But it's depressing. Who's going to keep going? From the ragers, I get more inters. From more inters, I get people who get in and just feed someone to such an extent even other ahead lanes can't do anything bc they keep doing it. I had an 80%+ winrate and now my mmr is like tanking down into silver.

ModThe DjinnJun 21, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Praetor Thot,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jnqleBns,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-21T13:12:06.803+0000)Just have to watch a replay to see a rage quit.

Sure. The problem here is that this creates an incentive to try to encourage people to quit if you're losing, so you don't lose MMR. That's a bad thing, as it basically creates more toxicity, and leads to a situation of "well, it's your fault, so quit so we don't lose rating for your mistakes."

Who's going to keep going?

Statistically, a lot of people. It's frustrating -- I get that. But it's part of playing an online game that people will occasionally leave, whether due to frustration or real-world issues. This is why the system is accurate over more games played, rather than being super accurate over a small numer.

I had an 80%+ winrate and now my mmr is like tanking down into silver.

Given that you seem to have ended Gold last season and seem to have played less than 100 ranked games this season (assuming LoLKing is currently accurate), that sort of fluctuation seems possible, yes. It's important to remember that while you can get held down by problematic players, you can also be buoyed up by really great players or players having a good game, and this is why the more games you play the more likely you are to place close to your accurate MMR.

Empress RedJun 21, 20181 votes

I only started playing ranked seriously last season. For the record, I don't think the system is ineffective overall, it must work overall, but I do think there are little things that slip through in some cases. I guess I'm just frustrated with possibly being one of those slips. I understand what you mean because admittedly, even with this, I've had a lot of 4v5s that I've won. I don't generally quit even after someone rage quits. It's just a hole in your sails when you're climbing a division a day, and suddenly, you're thrown the bottom for reasons outside your control.

Like four days ago, I had some diamond dude smurfing and streaming who straight up rage quit WHILE ON STREAM and it's like ?????? I don't know. Maybe I don't understand the system completely. I just seem to notice getting worse players and more of the same the more of it you get, and you try to balance for bias, but it can still get you.

Sometimes all you get is an imperfect system; it can't be perfect. I play this game way too much to ever really quit so I'll probably keep climbing, but sometimes imperfection doesn't feel good enough, you know? I do my best to make sure my team gets the win, regardless of sacrifice. Hell, we had a match where my adc went out the river route WHILE tabbing out of game to change music, fed the Draven, and then kept going by the blind bush to get displaced, Lux snared, and killed by the Draven.

Had a great JG and Top that game, a mid that did their job, and it was a hellish match, but cooperation got it done. Hardship is kind of just the name of the game. You never know what's going to happen. And that kind of thing I expect. It's just been wild how many rage quitters there've been. 3 games ago, we had top say "I mean look at your score" and that's it, and my adc said "I can be childish too" rage quit, and then show up at the post game.

Nearly won that, too. I suppose it's like pointless pining. Just wish there was something that could be done about it.

big boi edriJun 21, 20184 votes

Your match history shows the highest your MMR ever got was about Plat 5 (still a full league ahead of Gold 5, but definitely not Diamond).

It also shows you repeatedly feeding like crazy and having super low kill participation in many of your games. I know everyone likes to point fingers, but sometimes you just gotta take a look in the mirror.

Empress RedJun 21, 20181 votes

That's because I was lumping in two seasons, instead of one, because I've had this issue for two, and last season I had master players in one of my queues, but it wasn't solo queue.

How far back are you going? Because my past 10 or so games are filled with different issues, though a couple were just bad matches. Most of the time my KDA isn't great when I play support, but I usually die creating some sort of opportunity for my team. Context is a powerful thing, friend. I assume you mean the Xerath matches, in which case I will confess to being tilted for the games I've had this morning/week, the first being a bad game right after a rage quitter match, the second being top late very fed, very mobile, and me slightly tilted.

There's no fingers to point. I have no issue with playing badly, or simply losing. I have issue with losing because of rage quitters and the like. If you have that much frequently, of course things are going to suffer. A simple look at my history is not going to show you that fairly, and frankly, it isn't a fair thing to assess off of. Minus the past maybe 6 or 7 matches, I have no more deaths than anyone else or would be warranted in the sorts of matches I was in, and my kill participation is higher.

I'm not proud of it, but I will admit that I have been tilted off my ass because of the frequency of rage quitters and so on I've encountered lately. That's just the game. Maybe I should suck it up, but sometimes it will happen regardless, and things slip out of control. I could point out exactly what happened to you in whichever match if one was pointed out. I am extremely critical of my own playing, so take it or leave it when I say I wouldn't be pointing fingers at others. My past 7 or so ranked matches, minus the recent two, are train wrecks. I will make no excuses there. I don't mean to sound defensive, but I absolutely must say that recently, it's been awful, and I would not look at that as the norm. It's been a hell of a week...

ChermorgJun 21, 20181 votes

Even if the details are less than fully accurate, the base info is the same.

If you aren't climbing, it's not because of anyone or anything else. It's because your skills are not of a higher level, even if they were before or in past seasons.

Empress RedJun 21, 20181 votes

I am climbing. That's not the issue. The issue is it feels like I'm being punished for losses that aren't my fault through subsequent matchmaking, and rage quitters absolutely aren't my fault.

I'm dealing with it. No other choice. I still think it's crap since before that I was winning quite a bit. Don't think it's fair to ignore that and boil it down to my skills when it got worse AFTER I lost due to those issues.

Dcs and afks and rage quitters aren't part of my skills, far as I'm aware.

edit: topic's fairly simple. is it not true that losing would lower your matchmaking? so if you repeatedly lost due to things like this (before my recent losses) your matching would be worse

ChermorgJun 21, 20183 votes

But you would also win games due to this sort of reason, reason, and it all evens out in the end. In fact, statistically speaking, over time, you actually slowly climb because of MMR changes for games with AFKs or trolls. It is more likely they're on the enemy team than yours.

Empress RedJun 21, 20181 votes

Eh, in an ideal world. I mean, over time, I can't say it hasn't happened, but this season specifically? I'd notice a rage quitter or an afk or dc. I'm just saying, it hasn't specifically happened in my favor this season yet. My map awareness was terrible two seasons ago so now I'm hypervigilant with it now after working on it, and it'd be kind of hard to miss.

But maybe it will even out, like you say, over time. I can see what you're saying about the big picture of it. It's just morose in the interim. I'll just have to be patient and see how the macro pans out this season. This was just a topic made in despair, admittedly. Not my finest moment, but like my recent match history shows, it's been a hell of a week as far as that's concerned.

It's also a bit shocking because you'll go a while without seeing it, and then suddenly, it's 5 rage quitters a week. It's very odd to see out of the blue. And it's even stranger because they'll do it in a winning game. It's like watching a garbage truck smack into the side of a bodega right in front of you. Very, very strange.

Empress RedJun 21, 20182 votes

I appreciate the responses, though, either way. Like I said somewhere in here, I won't pretend I have intimate knowledge of this system and how it works overall. So it is helpful to hear, and somewhat pacifying as far as "despair" goes.

I both enjoy and despise this game, in a way. It can be very fun, despite how its entire playerbase calls it shit, but it can also be really draining in a strange way.

JunkοJun 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Härd Stuck,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jnqleBns,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-21T14:30:17.576+0000)

Your match history shows the highest your MMR ever got was about Plat 5 (still a full league ahead of Gold 5, but definitely not Diamond).

It also shows you repeatedly feeding like crazy and having super low kill participation in many of your games. I know everyone likes to point fingers, but sometimes you just gotta take a look in the mirror.

Can you judge my match history then smartass?

Empress RedJun 21, 20181 votes

I don't even feel it's fair to do so, so I don't know why they felt the need to say that. Mine fluctuates a lot, especially norms, because I have premades a lot, and how serious we want to take it really depends. My 5 man friend norm games often just end up clown fiestas rather than real matches, and we're fine with that.

I just don't know why I'm being judged off that when I clearly stated it's been tilt city for a bit because of things. I took a look at theirs, and it doesn't look especially ripe, either, I mean... but I'm not going to judge off that because shit happens, and matches go to hell, and things go out of whack. It's surprising what one lane going 2/8 can do to other lanes and their KDA, and if you're dead, it's really hard to have kill participation. I also die a lot when I'm learning something, and a lot of my Zyra games in recent history are /that/. And one of those games, I had Yasuo adc that tower dove both bot laners when I wasn't even in lane. Repeatedly. And as soon as I got back to lane, Nocturne would ult and kill me.

I mean, shit happens. Sometimes there's nothing you can do. It's rude to assume someone's deflecting accountability. I made this post out of frustration and hopelessness because of how this shit makes you feel. I'm well-aware I'm not excellence itself. More than that, I have a friend in Diamond who's far better at this than I am and even teaches people, and sometimes his match history looks like it's been through WWII. It's just the game.

big boi edriJun 21, 20181 votes

I cannot, it shows you haven't played any games recently at all.

JunkοJun 21, 20181 votes

Literally stuck in the exact same scenario right now. Playing against Plats to climb out of Gold 2, and just now I got demoted after playing 1 game against normal Gold players, where I had such gems as Kleptomancy Kai'Sa, 2/13 Nami and 9/15 Wukong on my team.

Great system.

Empress RedJun 21, 20181 votes

Full damage Vi top into Yasuo. "why are you guys feeding?" when 11/1 Yasuo comes down

RookPusherJun 21, 20181 votes

They can do something about it, many logical steps have been posted on these boards. Like many things in the real world, we don't lack solutions, we lack political will.

The solution (imo) is to A. Incentive normals B. Standardize Ranked C. Have ranked-based punishments for deviation from averages.

In other words, if you play Champ X in Role Y, we look at the average deaths. If you fall outside of 5 deaths on the average, then after 3 games of this, you have to play 10 normals before ranked again.

Like, to me I can't even fathom why this isn't implemented from a logistics standpoint. If you say "well we don't want to dissuade RP buyers" then fine, I get that. But in terms of cleaning up ranked, it's obvious to me Riot isn't interested.