Boards›Player Behavior

Double Standard

Arterigon··7 votes·776 views

One thing I've always wondered is why does Riot take a harder stance on toxicity over intentional feeders and people who troll games? I admit I'm toxic, shouldn't be. Hate on me if you want, its just my personality. For whatever reason, this game gets me heated more than any other game. I've tried quitting many times because I'm toxic but just can't because I'm too addicted. But that's not the point of this post.

I'd say 75% of the time I've been toxic its due to people trolling my games. I know you get in-client messages for punished players. In the 3 years I've played this game, I've never once gotten a message from a player who has trolled. Even though I've gotten probably 50 messages from other toxic players being punished for toxicity.

Why is this allowed in league of legends? I'm not trying to justify being toxic because I know it's wrong and I shouldn't do it. But honestly if they actually decided to punish people for ruining games and there would be more fear of getting banned, maybe there would be less trolls as a whole? Just my thoughts on the situation.

23 Comments

LostFr0st8 votes

{quoted}

One thing I've always wondered is why does Riot take a harder stance on toxicity over intentional feeders and people who troll games? I admit I'm toxic, shouldn't be. Hate on me if you want, its just my personality. For whatever reason, this game gets me heated more than any other game. I've tried quitting many times because I'm toxic but just can't because I'm too addicted. But that's not the point of this post.

Long story short---> They don't. Chat toxicity leads to 10-game chat restrictions, then 25-game, then a 14-day ban, then a perma. Gameplay toxicity (once detected) gives a straight-up 14-day ban, then a perma if detected again.

I'd say 75% of the time I've been toxic its due to people trolling my games. I know you get in-client messages for punished players. In the 3 years I've played this game, **I've never once gotten a message from a player who has trolled. Even though I've gotten probably 50 messages from other toxic players being punished for toxicity. **

This bit is confusing. How does one tell a message of punishment for a troll vs. chat toxic player apart? We don't receive the summoner name in the message...

Why is this allowed in league of legends? I'm not trying to justify being toxic because I know it's wrong and I shouldn't do it. But honestly if they actually decided to punish people for ruining games and there would be more fear of getting banned, maybe there would be less trolls as a whole? Just my thoughts on the situation.

It's not allowed (as mentioned above) and is severely punished. The problem is that the definition of "trolling" is subjective, while toxic chat is very clear-cut. When someone reports for chat, Riot can clearly check the chat and see "yep they said xyz and that's indeed toxic."

For trolling, many of the reports are just people taking out their rage for losing the game on their team. They don't care if their toplaner legit got camped and dove under tower so died, they're just angry about losing the game and want someone punished. They don't want to step up and do something on the map while the enemy jg is known to be top.

The biggest problem is that many times they don't even fill out the comment box and tell Riot how they can tell the person was trolling in-game. Filling out that box is HUGE and narrows down what Riot needs to check.

Were they running it down mid? --- Write it down. Following you in Jg? --- Write it down. Telling the enemy your location? --- Write it down.

Without that info it's easier to overlook/miss the trolling.

tldr: Riot wasn't in the game, they need that info to find the instances of trolling easier.

Arterigon2 votes

That's exactly what happened. I was the top laner who got hard camped. Our jungler was doing nothing. Yea I shouldn't have flamed him but he gave up at that point. ADC and Support followed Suit. At less than 10 minutes into the game our jungler had bought 3 tears and ADC and support followed suit not long after. I shouldn't have blamed/flamed my jungler, but whatever. They still shouldn't give up because I had a horrible start to a game. I mean, they intentionally didn't help me when they set up a tower dive for a solid minute and a half.

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

That's exactly what happened. I was the top laner who got hard camped. Our jungler was doing nothing. Yea I shouldn't have flamed him but he gave up at that point.

Depending on the top/jg 2v2 matchup there legit may be nothing he can do for you. It might be better to go to other lanes at that point.

Sometimes the jg doesn't understand this and just paces like a worried hen; it's up to the toplaner to then type "forget about top do stuff elsewhere" or give specific updates to the team on what the enemy will do and what the plan to match it (i.e. take infernal drake or get bot/mid tower) could be. This can include giving up top tower to cut the losses and starve the enemy top afterwards through a freeze.

ADC and Support followed Suit. At less than 10 minutes into the game our jungler had bought 3 tears and ADC and support followed suit not long after.

"bought multiple tears" should be in the report then.

I shouldn't have blamed/flamed my jungler, but whatever. They still shouldn't give up because I had a horrible start to a game. I mean, they intentionally didn't help me when they set up a tower dive for a solid minute and a half.

But should and could they have helped you realistically. That's the disagreement here.

Can a behind top+neutral jg defeat an ahead top+neutral jg? Depends on the 2v2 matchup and cds (I don't have this info).

Was there something better to do on the map (whether or not they did it is irrelevant, we need to let them know ahead of time that the coming enemy dive is their chance and to be ready).

tldr: Yes we all want to carry, but why not just back off and let the tower drop so that farm can be acquired more safely afterwards?

If we know the dive is coming and we have no help, conceding the tower is an option. It also doesn't give a bonus 450g.

Arterigon1 votes

Well the reason I couldn't concede is because the enemy top laner was proxying 2 waves back to back. so I had no other way to go because the jungler was coming from the top. they gave up on the first wave cause I played it smart but came back in second after I was chunked. Also every lane was losing, mine due to a jungler. I was 50 hp from kill their top twice and both times their jungle came right after a hard engage and everything I had was on cooldown. Both ganks pre 4 minutes into the game. Second one ill admit I played too far up. Either way, I was sitting under my tower after those 2 ganks and the jungler flat out ignores pings, and proceeded to gank mid and die over and over, and eventually started the game 0-7. Ironically the jungler fed more than me yet they blamed me for the loss and gave up at that point. I was just toxic so therefore I was banned.

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

Well the reason I couldn't concede is because the enemy top laner was proxying 2 waves back to back. so I had no other way to go because the jungler was coming from the top.

Still no idea on the matchup. The specific champs matter.

they gave up on the first wave cause I played it smart but came back in second after I was chunked. Also every lane was losing, mine due to a jungler. I was 50 hp from kill their top twice and both times their jungle came right after a hard engage and everything I had was on cooldown. Both ganks pre 4 minutes into the game.

Confused a bit here.

Be patient with me for the following questions: Was the enemy proxying and was chased by you (thus chunked) or were you under tower csing? How to get chunked if under tower last-hitting while enemy is proxying?

What it sounds like is (insert top champ) hard-engaged on the proxyer and got chunked and the enemy jg came to protect because proxyers make good bait.

Second one ill admit I played too far up. Either way, I was sitting under my tower after those 2 ganks and the jungler flat out ignores pings, and proceeded to gank mid and die over and over, and eventually started the game 0-7. Ironically the jungler fed more than me yet they blamed me for the loss and gave up at that point.

If the jg is that behind we really don't want him up there bro. Laners with doublebuffs aren't fun to vs. ^^"

I was just toxic so therefore I was banned.

Arterigon1 votes

Okay I was Sion vs a Riven (snowball champ I know) and my lee sin jungle vs enemy Sejuani. I more of wanted a counter gank when it looked like he was gonna dive me. I was full health under tower he chunked me to 1/2 health while losing 1/3 health and went behind me in lane. The jungler was above me so I had nowhere to go above me. Next wave they tried but sej whiffed so they ran off I cleared minions as safely as I could for another wave. After proxying the second wave and second wave hits my tower (cannon wave) they have plenty of time to dive me. I chunk sej to 1 tower hit away and he flashes out. riven unfortunately kills me and has about 1/3 - 1/2 health left. I just feel like lee could've come and help prevented since it wasn't a clean dive for them. I sat under tower prior to this too while riven froze wave and from the time I was sitting under tower til I died was like 1-2 minutes. I was pinging and there was enough time. And pretty sure lee had already given the enemy Zed double buffs XD.

LostFr0st2 votes

{quoted}

Okay I was Sion vs a Riven (snowball champ I know) and my lee sin jungle vs enemy Sejuani. I more of wanted a counter gank when it looked like he was gonna dive me. I was full health under tower he chunked me to 1/2 health while losing 1/3 health and went behind me in lane. The jungler was above me so I had nowhere to go above me. Next wave they tried but sej whiffed so they ran off I cleared minions as safely as I could for another wave. After proxying the second wave and second wave hits my tower (cannon wave) they have plenty of time to dive me. I chunk sej to 1 tower hit away and he flashes out. riven unfortunately kills me and has about 1/3 - 1/2 health left. I just feel like lee could've come and help prevented since it wasn't a clean dive for them.

If it was a clean dive they would have been healthy enough to fight Lee. Can't expect them to fk it up as a reason Lee should be there. Hindsight is 20:20.

What I don't get is how Riven is outpushing a Sion. Eing the wave and hitting her should at least equalize the push and make her sad.

So I found the game and it's Jax. Jax just tries to live to 6 and wins trades working around E cd (lvl 1 takes E).

I sat under tower prior to this too while riven froze wave and from the time I was sitting under tower til I died was like 1-2 minutes. I was pinging and there was enough time. And pretty sure lee had already given the enemy Zed double buffs XD.

Can break the freeze fast by baiting her into autoing Jax inside the wave then sitting in the bush for exp.

IDK if JaxLee beats RivenSej straight-up. For sure can't win any trade without E off cd, (match history won't say if E was taken lvl 1) but could have asked Lee to help break the freeze I guess.

I personally wouldn't trust him for the 2v2. Lol about Zed. My condolences for the tear trio.

Arterigon1 votes

Oh woops it was jax. I'm a sion main :) so I got confused lol. But yea I was winning really hard initially. And I was winning it pretty hard until Sejuani came and ganked twice. I tp'd back to lane and tried to kill Riven but she barely survived. My mistake there because I thought I could all in her. Sej then came back 15 seconds later and killed me. It wasn't even our mid laner who fed Zed. It was our Lee sin who camped mid and kept dying to him...lol.

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

Oh woops it was jax. I'm a sion main :) so I got confused lol. But yea I was winning really hard initially. And I was winning it pretty hard until Sejuani came and ganked twice. I tp'd back to lane and tried to kill Riven but she barely survived. My mistake there because I thought I could all in her. Sej then came back 15 seconds later and killed me. It wasn't even our mid laner who fed Zed. It was our Lee sin who camped mid and kept dying to him...lol.

I don't think Sej had anywhere else but top to go in that case :/ bot looks like it won by itself and mid was too (Lee helped). Probs just unlucky that game.

The tears make it pretty obvious they were griefing, but as you said it's not worth your time to flame Lee. Just report after the game and mention the tears in the comment box. Riot will see it.

I know the thread is about the fairness of troll vs chat punishments, but I think the following may help future games.

  1. It's probably better to just to /muteall every game and pretend your team is Ai cats. Trust me, it'll save a lot of grief since getting mad at Ai or cats would be silly.

  2. The trick is to pretend your team is piloted by kittens and use the blue ping without a name (basically a laserpointer). If it's not spammed they'll follow it most of the time. It's legit very fun.

ModThe Djinn6 votes

Trolling, griefing, and intentional feeding are not allowed. In fact, they are aggressively bad whenever they are identified. The problem is that those behaviors are a lot harder to detect then toxic in-game communication, and it often takes longer to confirm that behavior. This is especially true with intentional feeding or in game trolling such as following someone around and taking all their minions, because killing minions is something that happens in a game, and being bad and dying a lot is allowed as long as you aren't doing it intentionally.

As a result, you tend to see less punishments go out for this, because while your reports add to the pile of evidence, but it also takes longer for the system to be confident a punishment is warranted.

ShaolinToilet1 votes

Seen lots of players with 100s of losses and a 1 percent winrate on a champion that don't get banned until Reddit or boards points them out. Do you think they just need to ruin 1000s of games before they get caught?

Kei1433 votes

Alot of times people mistake feeding with inting / griefing / trolling. They are different things.

Feeding can be caused by many things, being bad, being outplayed, being camped are all part of it. None of those reasons for feeding can be punished. Only when someone displays a clear intent to loose the game is when it is punishable.

People report others for inting / griefing falsely too much, and it clouds the data can learn from, thus making the reports super unreliable and much harder for the system to make a decision on whether there is a clear intent of loosing, which is also why you see inters / griefers less punished. Not because they want it to, but because everything else clouding the data too much.

Karunamon3 votes

why does Riot take a harder stance on toxicity over intentional feeders and people who troll games?

They don't in policy, but it's a lot easier to automatically punish people based on things like "kys" than it is to determine if that "feeder" was actually feeding or just having an awful game. And given the chatlogs that wind up here, most people don't know the difference.

No, you can't just go off of KDA - not without a huge false positive rate.

Arterigon1 votes

Personally 5 tears is a good indication to me they're trolling...they gave up because I was 1-5 and flaming. That's still punishable.

Karunamon2 votes

Depends on when they do it. They're dead and the respawn timer would take longer than it'll take their nexus to blow up?

Arterigon1 votes

It was probably a 23 minute game. Jungler sold all items and bought tears 10 minutes into game and the other two players bought tears 15 minutes into the game. While me and our mid didn't give up. I have a file of a screenshot of the tears but don't know how to post it....

Karunamon1 votes

Okay yeah, that is definitely intentional. You'd probably want to direct that to player support, it'll just get nuked here because calling people out for their bad behavior is against the rules :(

Arterigon1 votes

Yea I figured it did, and I just wanted to at least hear some feedback from some people before it does get deleted. I just feel like there could be some algorithms added to at least provoke some more investigation other than providing detailed feedback every time it happens. Because people give up every few games and I Don't want to have to provide a screenshot every single time it happens. I'm a low gold player so I know I suck and deal with other hardheaded people like me XD

General Esdeath 2 votes

I'll make this simple, they punish both, one is just a hundred thousand times easier to detect just by chat logs. I don't have to watch your replay to know that you calling Thresh a racial slur is wrong. I'd have to watch it to see where Thresh died and how he died to decide if he's inting or not.

Arterigon1 votes

I guess, but its frustrating to not see them get punished. When I see me get punished for toxicity and others who I reported for toxicity, but to not see it for giving up or trolling after those games, its frustrating. Because 90% of the time I get the message either in que for next game, or waiting for me after my next game finishes.

General Esdeath 1 votes

And how do you know they didn't get punished?

Arterigon1 votes

I shouldn't be toxic, and yes I was wrong for reacting the way I did. Honestly don't know how to play the game without being frustrated. It's probably in my best interest to quit playing but I barely have any other games to keep me interested long enough. I know personally if I had the satisfaction of seeing the players also get punished for inting, I'd probably be more likely to be less toxic. Still not trying to make excuses because its not justified, I just feel like I wish I could see the player actually get punished.

Nosferous1 votes

Some people are just legit bad, or learning to play a champ, unfortunately it happened to be during your game. Even high ELO players have to learn a new champ and become good, maybe they aren't trolling 100% of the time and they can't control their skill level or don't notice they're over-extending, making poor calls to dive, etc... You can control what you type in chat and on that keyboard. That's the difference.

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