Don't Perma Ban for Chat.

Yassuo3·Dec 1, 2019·4 votes·2,893 views

Why are players permanently banned for things such as bad behavior in the chat? To me this is not a ban able offense since players are given the option to mute each player both on their team and on the enemy team, or further more they can get rid of the entire chat feature itself in the settings box. I believe that every player who was permanently banned from the game for purposes only due to "toxic" in game chat behavior such as cursing and or trash talking teammates or opponents should have a second chance in this game since technically they have not actually broken any rules in terms of making the game enjoyable. Since riot has the mute teammate feature players can simply mute their teammates who prefer to take out their aggression over the terms of typing in chat even though the chat box is suppose to be used for team work and planning, however we players know that this rarely occurs in lower elo and especially in higher elo. Personally Riot should spend less time focusing on banning players for things such as toxic chat behavior for this doesn't cause any real harm unless these players are telling other players to kill themselves repetitively for this is a different style of aggression. Riot in fact should spend majority of their time banning the players who truly cause major issues in this game being those who win trade, and purposely throw games to help streamers out as well as boosters. These players actually effect how the game is played and can cause players who don't deserve certain rewards to get them while players who grind away get farther and farther from their dreams especially if they have to encounter these types of players on a daily basis like I do. The video above is proof that this issue is apparent yet people prefer to say that those who are toxic in chat are the ones who ruin games. Riot please unban those who made mistakes in chat and focus on those who truly cause issues in this game.

26 Comments

Umbral RegentDec 1, 201910 votes

To me this is not a ban able offense since players are given the option to mute each player both on their team and on the enemy team, or further more they can get rid of the entire chat feature itself in the settings box.

The mute feature is a band-aid solution, and it's meant to prevent a player from suffering further ill-effects of chat misbehavior. It is not there to give players an exemption from the rules that they agreed to at account creation.

Whether you like it or not, everyone who makes an account on League of Legends signs up with the promise that they will not abuse the chat feature to misbehave and flame other players. Whether you like it or not, it is a punishable - and, if necessary - bannable offense. Don't like the rules? Them's the 8r8ks.

I believe that every player who was permanently banned from the game for purposes only due to "toxic" in game chat behavior such as cursing and or trash talking teammates or opponents should have a second chance in this game since technically they have not actually broken any rules in terms of making the game enjoyable.

I'm not sure where you're getting "technically" from, because they did in fact break the rules, and they did make the game unenjoyable for other players. If they didn't make the game unenjoyable, they wouldn't have been reported, and if they didn't break the rules, they wouldn't have been punished.

I seriously recommend you read the Terms of Use - Code of Conduct as well as the Summoner's Code, as both constitute the rules and behavioral guidelines you're expected to follow in League of Legends.

Since riot has the mute teammate feature players can simply mute their teammates who prefer to take out their aggression over the terms of typing in chat even though the chat box is suppose to be used for team work and planning, however we players know that this rarely occurs in lower elo and especially in higher elo.

Players should not have to mute other players. If you prefer to take out your aggression in-chat towards your teammates, then guess what; players can mute you, and they can also report you. You're not allowed to flame, period. The mute feature does not exempt you from that rule.

Additionally; I'd really love to see some statistics about the usage of chat for coordination/teamwork. I doubt it's as low as some people like to sell it as.

Personally Riot should spend less time focusing on banning players for things such as toxic chat behavior for this doesn't cause any real harm unless these players are telling other players to kill themselves repetitively for this is a different style of aggression.

Why do people assume that Riot is strictly focusing on chat misbehavior? It's not like they have extremely limited resources and choose to funnel all of them towards chat misbehavior. The IFS - the system that handles chat misbehavior - is automated. So with the exception of cases pulled from the IFS for audit/manual review, they really aren't focusing on chat misbehavior any more than they're focusing on anything else.

Riot in fact should spend majority of their time banning the players who truly cause major issues in this game being those who win trade, and purposely throw games to help streamers out as well as boosters.

Again; you're assuming that they aren't trying. Unfortunately, non-chat offenses aren't something they can just set the IFS to track and punish reliably. Chat offenses are easy; win-trading, trolling, intentional feeding, etc.? Those aren't half as easy. And as it were, simply saying "focus on this instead of chat" isn't going to make it any easier.

The video above is proof that this issue is apparent yet people prefer to say that those who are toxic in chat are the ones who ruin games.

Both are players who ruin games. It's not an either/or situation, and I don't think I've seen anyone even remotely suggest that wintraders/trolls/etc. don't ruin games while flamers do. Both ruin games, both are awful, and both deserve punishment.

Riot please unban those who made mistakes in chat and focus on those who truly cause issues in this game.

Again; they already are focusing on gameplay misbehavior.

And as for unbanning flamers; if they got permabanned, then they didn't just "make mistakes in chat". They made a ton of mistakes. Constantly. Enough so that Riot had to permanently remove them from the game.

At that point, that's not "making mistakes", that's deliberately flouting the rules. And those players who openly disrespected the rules, even after countless warnings, they're not getting unbanned. Period. If you can't be bothered to play by the rules, Riot can't be bothered to have you playing at all.

SymbolicFearDec 1, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iz44l8xf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-01T08:59:32.608+0000)

The mute feature is a band-aid solution, and it's meant to prevent a player from suffering further ill-effects of chat misbehavior. It is not there to give players an exemption from the rules that they agreed to at account creation.

Whether you like it or not, everyone who makes an account on League of Legends signs up with the promise that they will not abuse the chat feature to misbehave and flame other players. Whether you like it or not, it is a punishable - and, if necessary - bannable offense. Don't like the rules? Them's the 8r8ks.

I'm not sure where you're getting "technically" from, because they did in fact break the rules, and they did make the game unenjoyable for other players. If they didn't make the game unenjoyable, they wouldn't have been reported, and if they didn't break the rules, they wouldn't have been punished.

I seriously recommend you read the Terms of Use - Code of Conduct as well as the Summoner's Code, as both constitute the rules and behavioral guidelines you're expected to follow in League of Legends.

Players should not have to mute other players. If you prefer to take out your aggression in-chat towards your teammates, then guess what; players can mute you, and they can also report you. You're not allowed to flame, period. The mute feature does not exempt you from that rule.

Additionally; I'd really love to see some statistics about the usage of chat for coordination/teamwork. I doubt it's as low as some people like to sell it as.

Why do people assume that Riot is strictly focusing on chat misbehavior? It's not like they have extremely limited resources and choose to funnel all of them towards chat misbehavior. The IFS - the system that handles chat misbehavior - is automated. So with the exception of cases pulled from the IFS for audit/manual review, they really aren't focusing on chat misbehavior any more than they're focusing on anything else.

Again; you're assuming that they aren't trying. Unfortunately, non-chat offenses aren't something they can just set the IFS to track and punish reliably. Chat offenses are easy; win-trading, trolling, intentional feeding, etc.? Those aren't half as easy. And as it were, simply saying "focus on this instead of chat" isn't going to make it any easier.

Both are players who ruin games. It's not an either/or situation, and I don't think I've seen anyone even remotely suggest that wintraders/trolls/etc. don't ruin games while flamers do. Both ruin games, both are awful, and both deserve punishment.

Again; they already are focusing on gameplay misbehavior.

And as for unbanning flamers; if they got permabanned, then they didn't just "make mistakes in chat". They made a ton of mistakes. Constantly. Enough so that Riot had to permanently remove them from the game.

At that point, that's not "making mistakes", that's deliberately flouting the rules. And those players who openly disrespected the rules, even after countless warnings, they're not getting unbanned. Period. If you can't be bothered to play by the rules, Riot can't be bothered to have you playing at all.

Quick question is it a bannable offense to make the game unfun for other players, REALLY? Legitimate question here.

Umbral RegentDec 1, 20194 votes

Quick question is it a bannable offense to make the game unfun for other players, REALLY? Legitimate question here.

That's not a question with any singular answer. No matter which way you put it, there's always some factor that basically resolves the question to "yes, if it makes the game unfun for other players, you can be punished for it."

An example that I know is contentious; excessive negativity. Yes, it may not be with the intention to make the game unfun for other players, but the effect is still the same; excessive negativity and constant complaints wears on people's morale and makes them want to play the game less.

Other cases are more obvious; flaming, trolling, intentional feeding, etc., those come with the explicit goal of making the game not just unfun, but straight-up miserable for other players.

SymbolicFearDec 1, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iz44l8xf,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-01T09:30:25.037+0000)

That's not a question with any singular answer. No matter which way you put it, there's always some factor that basically resolves the question to "yes, if it makes the game unfun for other players, you can be punished for it."

An example that I know is contentious; excessive negativity. Yes, it may not be with the intention to make the game unfun for other players, but the effect is still the same; excessive negativity and constant complaints wears on people's morale and makes them want to play the game less.

Other cases are more obvious; flaming, trolling, intentional feeding, etc., those come with the explicit goal of making the game not just unfun, but straight-up miserable for other players.

Yet, why is basic shit talking a bannable offense, when a lot of people get into it and use it to boost their efforts, and have more fun. Also, why is it that in game chat is the biggest priority as Riot is so lazy to make it automated and refuse to ever put in any real effort to stop wintrading, smurfing, boosting, intentionally feeding, trolling, etc etc, also, why is the game frequently updated to be more and more frustrating to the individual? With complete disregard to the feedback that a majority of players, even high elo streamers and players of many many years and even pro players, they repeatedly make them game more and more unfun and unenjoyable to play. In fact, ive spoken to a large variety of players in all elo and they all state the same issues and it started about 3 to 4 years ago. This is from discussion with well over 100 players in a variety of formats. Any response to the piss poor job the company is doing?

rujitraDec 1, 20195 votes

You are entitled to your opinion that these issues are bigger. You repeating a conspiracy over and over does not make it fact.

SymbolicFearDec 1, 20191 votes

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TrulyBlandDec 1, 20199 votes

That's like asking "Are birds black?" and insisting on the answer being either yes or no. You are taking something extremely vague and asking whether something extremely specific applies to it. That might not be rocket science, but it makes no sense either.

Riot doesn't want people to do things that make the game unenjoyable. Within the things that make the game unenjoyable, some things are such that Riot believes it's acceptable to punish people for it to try to deter people from doing those things.

That's as much as you can generalize it.

SymbolicFearDec 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That's like asking "Are birds black?" and insisting on the answer being either yes or no. You are taking something extremely vague and asking whether something extremely specific applies to it. That might not be rocket science, but it makes no sense either.

Riot doesn't want people to do things that make the game unenjoyable. Within the things that make the game unenjoyable, some things are such that Riot believes it's acceptable to punish people for it to try to deter people from doing those things.

That's as much as you can generalize it.

Incorrect, it may be a blanket statement, but it all revolves around the same issue. Whether it is or it isnt. And if it is, why are so many held unaccountable for the problems they cause, while chat gets the biggest focus?

TrulyBlandDec 1, 20198 votes

Incorrect, it may be a blanket statement, but it all revolves around the same issue. Whether it is or it isnt.

Again I ask you: Are birds black? Yes or no? That too, is a question of whether "it" is, or "it" isn't. So it should be easy to answer, right?

And if it is, why are so many held unaccountable for the problems they cause, while chat gets the biggest focus?

"Focus" is not a measure of effect, it's a measure of effort. How much effort do you think a completely automated system takes? How much effort do you think is actively applied to chat? And the effect of the punishments for chat is simply larger because it's much much easier to hold people accountable for their chat than to hold people accountable for their intentions.

And that's the point of what I was trying to say: Making the game unenjoyable via, for example, feeding is only deemed worthy of punishment if it happens intentionally.

SymbolicFearDec 1, 20191 votes

[deleted]

TrulyBlandDec 1, 201911 votes

{quoted}

Incorrect yet again young one

What is incorrect?

Asking if birds are black is not a yes or no question as it encompasses many different species and subclasses, "Birds" isnt a specific.

And asking if making the game unenjoyable is bannable is not a yes or no question as it encompasses many different types of behaviour. "Making the game unenjoyable" isn't specific.

Asking if its bannable to make the game unfun, is a specific, im specifically asking if i make the game unfun for others, knowing thats what im doing, is that bannable?

Just because you say it's specific doesn't mean it is. Admittedly you are getting more specific as you are now including "knowing that's what I'm doing" in the question. But there's still a whole lot of ways you could be doing that.

There are plenty of lane combinations that specifically aim to make the opponent's game hell. That's not bannable. Some people dislike certain champions in certain roles, to the extend that if I pick such a champion (even if I know I'm improving my - and therefore the team's - chance to win) I make their game less enjoyable. That, too, is not bannable.

So the answer to your question, just as with the question of "Are birds black?" is: Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

You can keep pretending as if all actions that make the game unenjoyable are 100% identical and should be treated 100% identical. But it's simply not the case. And that's why your question is, frankly, bullshit. You are putting your own views and assumptions in there, forcing anybody who would try to answer the question to implicitly agree with those assumptions.

Well, here's the thing: I don't. I don't agree with your assumption. That doesn't mean I'm overthinking things, doesn't mean I'm underthinking things, doesn't mean I'm a fanboy. It just means that I disagree with you. Is that really such a strange concept to you?

SymbolicFearDec 1, 20191 votes

[deleted]

ModiDec 1, 20191 votes

The above arguement is just me being a smart ass to an idiot who is essentially employed by riot to moderate these forums, I dont care if you disagree with me or not, to me your just another name without a face and I frankly, couldnt give less of a damn.

Essentially employed by riot? Get your foill hats, people, we have a conspiracy theory on our hands

ModiDec 1, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Is making the game unenjoyable bannable or not? Simple yes or no is required bud, its not rocket science.

No, it is not that simple.

I have been in games where people call "duo bot" regardless if it would be better to swap one person to a different lane. That made that particular game not fun for me.

Was I frustrated? Hell yeah I was.

Were their actions punishable? Absolutely not.

Yin Yang TaoistDec 1, 20196 votes

No one is permanently banned for bad behavior in chat, right off the bat. You're given a 10, 25 game chat restriction followed by a 2-week suspension and finally, a permanent ban. I don't think that Riot would ever agree with people using chat to make others feel miserable because it would thwart their business. Riot also doesn't allow match fixing or boosting. This one in the video was quite obvious for griefing/boosting.

But. Its often times a lot more difficult to tell whether they are intentionally playing a certain way or not because it isn't possible to get in their heads and understand their true intentions.

SymbolicFearDec 1, 20194 votes

Shit talking is a part of every online game, it is what it is, shouldnt be punished unless taken to extremes such as threatening someone's irl life or family and homophobia, sexism, and racism. When its just people saying "Youre garbage" it shouldnt get you banned. I think everyone can agree that toxic GAMEPLAY is the real problem and always has been, its just being blamed on peoples words.

Yassuo3Dec 1, 20194 votes

I totally agree man

CharDeeMcDennizDec 1, 20196 votes

living in the past, grow up

Nightsky PirateDec 1, 20191 votes

Are you under a rock? More often than not, I see this bannable chat in games, and more often people who won't say anything no matter what.

You're living a deluded fantasy.

CharDeeMcDennizDec 1, 20195 votes

shit talk is NOT "part of every online game", not even close.

in fact, the ENTIRE gaming industry is trending away from the concept that toxicity is ok, you should check out https://fairplayalliance.org/

tons of MASSIVE companies all rallying behind the same philosophy, so no, it is not, nor will it be in the future, be ok to flame. The days of screaming "F$%^ YOUR MOM" in every online game are gone and good riddance to them, get with the times luddites

Nightsky PirateDec 1, 20192 votes

That's a lot to read (and I will be), yet its apparent that even at a mere glance through it's resources talking about toxicity and behavior, that something along the lines of "you're garbage" isn't the sort of thing they're hoping to quash.

They're about building healthy games, not oppressive games. This here, this autoban crap without any compassion for players or understanding of context, is NOT what Fair Play Alliance is advocating.

There is a massive difference between "Way to go dummy" and "### #### ###### ########### ############"

Now kindly get out from under your fantasy rock.

CharDeeMcDennizDec 2, 20191 votes

enjoy thinking like a dinosaur

deuces*[slayer-jinx-catface]*

EntrancesDec 30, 20191 votes

you literally flamed him to explain why flaming is bad

NavaruneDec 1, 20194 votes

Having a feature to protect yourself against toxic behavior does not give anyone else the right or freedom to continue said behavior. Reforming and correcting the behavior and whatever underlying conditions that cause it are honestly not the responsibility of the game company nor of the other healthy members of the community for that matter.

Yes, there are a number of issues in this community. But, that does not negate the effect of abusers of the chatbox. Each needs to be dealt with harshly and with a strong stance that any such behavior--including toxic chat--will not be tolerated.

Yassuo3Dec 1, 20191 votes

Apparently what I am trying to get at isn’t sinking in for everyone to understand so I will go about this at a different approach. Toxic chat behavior can vary yes ? Someone can simply flame things like “stop feeding” or “please help the team instead of nonstop free farming jungle all game” and all it takes is a pre made group of two to report you and you get the same punishment as someone who were to take this sort of behavior to another level being in typing things that are more or less on a more personal and aggressive manner. One is not even remotely harming another player at all where as the other is, yet they revoke the same kind of punishment. Win trading however affects the teams who have the win trader and those who do not, for no matter what happens the team that has the win trader is going to lose the game and potentially end their series or promotions or what ever it may be. The team that is receiving the free win has a ruined game experience due to it just not being fun to win that way. Boosters ruin the game by making others hard work and time commitment seem pointless when someone who has played the game for one year can go from Bronze 4 one month to let’s say gold 1 or platinum 4 the next. While in the course of this month they randomly start taking flash on d as opposed to f like that have their entire league career. For those of you who believe that I am only asking that toxic players should get un banned only because I got banned? Honestly this is somewhat true for I personally got banned permanently on my main account due to trying to expose a win trader in the chat and they told their duo along with their friends who reported me straight to riot. Do I find this fair? Not really for everyone else on my team was flaming them as well and yes they also got permanently banned, while the win traders did not. Now that we have got this settled. To turn the conversation so that others who Always seem to point the finger at strictly toxic behavior. I know for a fact that everyone in this game has flamed their teams one time or another, some do it every game. Why don’t they get banned then if it is breaking the rules ? Also let’s say that you flame someone due to having a bad day, and you get banned I garentee that your opinions about toxic chat behavior will change. This is something that we all can agree on yes ?