"nonmeta jungler is bad, we're going to play this out until you realize it"

Kr1sys·Jan 3, 2016·67 votes·4,394 views

Bot lane goes 1/9 by the 7 minute mark without any jungler intervention. From either team

But yeah, blame the nonmeta jungler

57 Comments

Ageless NocturneJan 3, 201638 votes

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-blame-the-jungler-38.png

Avios1Jan 3, 20167 votes

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/61/61f840039e676135480f2140f4cdbc3a81d73b5dab81a9592edb8b66161c3977.jpg

MelledoneusJan 5, 20161 votes

Well, of course bot lane is feeding when you go Nasus ADC!!!

Zero ShingetsuJan 16, 20161 votes

Should've put him at support. People never learn.

Spacesuit SpiffJan 3, 201610 votes

Some people find it easier to just give up and blame a non-meta than actually play well. Thats why 0/1 turns into 0/9, they get an easy way out of feeling bad about the game and they take it.

See discoheat. Botlane dies at level 2 "gg report this ashe mid"

blueberrypancakeJan 4, 20162 votes

Ashe mid

Huh

Never thought about it

I like that idea, but was probably better when blue build ashe was a thing and utility mages were the rage in season 4

Spacesuit SpiffJan 4, 20161 votes

Ya it seems to have been a steady tier lower than normal stuff for a long time. Which is the point of discoheat videos. He picks slightly suboptimal stuff, does well, and then shows us his team flipping out regardless

LankPantsJan 4, 20161 votes

I like that idea, but was probably better when blue build ashe was a thing

Blue build has always been straight-up worse than building anything else on Ashe regardless of where you play her. It's always been better just to rush Infinity Edge even if you're playing Ashe mid.

kaltenashesJan 4, 20161 votes

adc going mid (building the same stuff as he would in bot lane) was pretty common in s1,s2

right now if they go mid lane, people start changing their builds

AyRe CoNteMpTJan 3, 20168 votes

there is no lane that can be killed if played properly. if you die in lane, its always your fault and never the junglers or anyone else.

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 3, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=AyRe CoNteMpT,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iqHnJeVR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-03T19:25:30.378+0000)

there is no lane that can be killed if played properly. if you die in lane, its always your fault and never the junglers or anyone else.

You sir... have not had 5 people gank you at level 3 and tower dive 5v2 and double kill. Which means you are either inexperienced or have a bad memory. Either way, you don't know what you're talking about.

LuluInWonderlandJan 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You sir... have not had 5 people gank you at level 3 and tower dive 5v2 and double kill. Which means you are either inexperienced or have a bad memory. Either way, you don't know what you're talking about.

Well I have. And if that many people are ganking you level 3, then 1) Their mistake - take objectives in response in other lanes, and 2) why did you not notice people missing and back off?

I agree - (nearly) every death is avoidable. And the few that aren't, means it comes at a much greater cost to their team than it's worth.

KynamiJan 3, 20161 votes

Well there was this lovely teleport top and mid meta just a short while back... where a jungle paying a visit at like level 3 can drop a ward in river bush and suddenly its a 5v2 down there.

Also, almost impossible to take tower at that level. You can push a wave in for some chipping damage but actually taking the tower isn't going to happen that early in the match if you are the only person in your lane.

And getting a double off on a snowball champ that early in the game is easily a half-level advantage plus half an item lead. Combo that into early tower/drake and what greater cost?

AyRe CoNteMpTJan 3, 20161 votes

oh yeah im sorry im so inexperienced please teach me sensei

EasyWay BWJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You sir... have not had 5 people gank you at level 3 and tower dive 5v2 and double kill. Which means you are either inexperienced or have a bad memory. Either way, you don't know what you're talking about.

hahah you sir don't know how to leave a tower when needed then the tower wont always save you.

La BarbotteJan 3, 20167 votes

being non meta doesnt mean bad, it simply mean not the ''Most Efficient Tactic Available'' (META) meaning that non meta pick can be good and work BUT they arent the best thing you could do at the current state of the game ex. ( talon jg got a little bit of CC and deals alot of DMG, but j4 does too but better) you understand ?

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

being non meta doesnt mean bad, it simply mean not the ''Most Efficient Tactic Available'' (META) meaning that non meta pick can be good and work BUT they arent the best thing you could do at the current state of the game ex. ( talon jg got a little bit of CC and deals alot of DMG, but j4 does too but better) you understand ?

This. Only more concise: PLAY THINGS THAT HELP YOUR TEAM, DON'T BREAK THE META CAUSE YOU THINK YOU'RE COOL.

La BarbotteJan 3, 20161 votes

yes this is true, but thats where normals come in, practice optimal champions, then go get that sweet freelo

The Mighty FleaJan 3, 20166 votes

So you are saying that me, one if my mid lane mains is karthus,over 500 games over 3 seasons, should only play zed because he is strong and "meta" at the moment instead of the champion I have the most experience with. (No games with zed because I hate him.)

La BarbotteJan 4, 20161 votes

no, im saying that if you had the same amount of experience on a ''meta'' champion, you would be in the freelo zone, put it this way, lets say next patch karthus is the OP thing, well you know your champ AND the champ is super strong its better than knowing a champ that is weak even tho you might win most of your lanes / games, you would do so even more when the champ is in a strong state

Avios1Jan 3, 20161 votes

I don't play Bard jungle or top because I think I'm cool, I play it because it helps my team.

KaisadiIIaJan 4, 20163 votes

This is a game. Which means you play whatever you want to have fun. If you like Anivia full AD jungle, you can play it, and nobody can't tell you otherwise (in fact, it's not reportable as stated by RIOT, and if you do, it lowers your future reports' value).

ProzzakJan 3, 201610 votes

Meta is just like stereotypes. Right for the vast majority but cannot be extended to individuals. Some people are far more comfortable on talon then J4 and likely can't play J4 worth a shit compared to talon. I am like that with Kha and Rengar. I can't play rengar at all but love Kha yet people on these boards frequently ask what the point of playing kha is when rengar exists.

Void NargacugaJan 3, 20163 votes

Where did you get that META = Most efficient tactic available? Because the META is just what happens to be FOTM or is inherently strong due to the most recent patch from what I can tell. META is a gaming term in League of Legends that essentially describes what is considered the norm to play.

KaisadiIIaJan 4, 20163 votes

The fact that there can be "multiple metas" at the same time (in different regions, for example), is enough to prove your point.

junglerboy16Jan 3, 201613 votes

That's not actually what meta means, that just an internet joke.

"Meta" in this case is an abbreviation of the term "metagame" which is basically the abstract set of rules about how the game works best (adding "meta" to something means you want to talk about the non-concrete part of it). Meta transcends tactics and strategies since it is based on concepts that are fundamentally external to the game itself, where strategies are based on something within the game.

blueberrypancakeJan 4, 20162 votes

You guys probably don't give a shit but I'm gonna say it anyways

if this game had no meta, it would be an action game, not a strategy game

junglerboy16Jan 4, 20161 votes

I'm not saying it doesn't have a meta, I'm saying he doesn't know what meta means.

KarKzzJan 3, 20164 votes

Experience > Meta.

It's better to play a non meta champion that you have a lot of experience than a meta champ that you didn't trained a lot. If you know you matchup (or your jungle) you can deal with anything. If you know how to play against something, you may won't be able to win, but at least you know how to not lose, and how to go around it.

But if your main end up being META, well, get your freelo.

My Waifu VanillaJan 4, 20163 votes

The best part about this statement is a majority of players do not believe it. When I play my 80k mastery Akali top and get "countered" by a first time Garen/Darius because the Internet says it's freelo for this match up, I proceed to go at least 3/1 in lane and steamroll their team because I know my counter lanes extremely well due to them being common occurrences and my opponent not having an idea what they are doing because they blindly follow the internet.

GamblerOfLivesJan 3, 20165 votes

you do understand that some lanes are lost due to being counterpicked? for exampl draven+janna vs vayne and bard:)...Draven wins this hard:).ot saying it's the jungler fault, but you need to be aware of this;)

TurquoiseYoshiJan 3, 201629 votes

1-9 is not a lane that should happen even in a counterpick. That only comes from bad play.

Nu63Jan 4, 20162 votes

If the 9 deaths are split between 2 players, that's the average crappy bot lane run.

70640285DEL1Jan 5, 20161 votes

I understand where you are coming from dude, but as the saying goes...

"Then there is the man who drowned while crossing a stream that was, on average, 6 inches deep..."

DAM1VJan 5, 20161 votes

9 deaths before 7 minutes isn't an average crappy bot lane run. Considering minions don't even get to lane in like 2 minutes, thats 9 deaths in about 5 minutes. That should be a very very crappy bot lane run.

Nu63Jan 5, 20161 votes

Somehow I missed the 7 minute thing.

magic poleJan 4, 20162 votes

IF 1-9 Draven IS GIVING YOU A CHANCE

aura trifireJan 4, 20162 votes

Um. Lcs players get counterpicked from time to time. How do they deal with it? It's hard but it's possible to deal with.

GamblerOfLivesJan 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=aura trifire,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iqHnJeVR,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-01-04T02:54:25.833+0000)

Um. Lcs players get counterpicked from time to time. How do they deal with it? It's hard but it's possible to deal with.

http://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/1317630568/204624139 everybody feed from time to time

http://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/1316894655/204624139

even i feed:)

LuluInWonderlandJan 3, 20164 votes

As a jungler, you should be helping lanes especially if they are at a (slight) disadvantage. That said, unless you are next level you can't help everybody. Every lane should be able to hold their own even when counter picked. They may not win, but it's also not the jungler's fault if they feed. It's okay to lose a little in lane. Generally, when you get counter picked, it hurts you most early game but you either outscale later or provide something else to your team that they don't. Otherwise, they messed up hard in champion select anyway.

Anyway...everybody blames a jungler when they lose lane. I've had all 3 lanes losing and managed to help one out of the ground. The other 2 raged hard that I wasn't ganking for them and they were behind. They tend to only see their own lane, and as a jungler you have to watch the entire map and not babysit.

Being meta or not had nothing to do with their raging. Losing their lane did.

aura trifireJan 4, 20161 votes

Yep if the Gank isn't there don't go for it. Keep FARMing and warding along the way and etc. a bad Gank is worse than none.

My Waifu VanillaJan 4, 20161 votes

If anything, completely disregard bot lane and get your Jax/Riven/Irelia/etc. fed since if they get fed they will just kill their fed adc regardless of how many items he has. There are things such as lost causes and it is sometimes better to get the winning lane further ahead since if any of the aforementioned champions (or anyone else in their categories) get fed your game suddenly becomes a 4v3 with that champions lane opponent being out of the game entirely and their fed carry dying before they can do anything with all of their damage. All of this at the cost of disregardIng your 0/5 Ashe or whatever.

manbearswineJan 3, 20163 votes

To be fair,they might have a point,at least to a certain extent.

I for one will play very differently depending on who the enemy jungler is,if it's something without much presence early I might play as if he isn't there at all,whereas if it's something with very serious presence,I might in turn play very passively,which puts me in a less favorable position for trades and all ins.

So yeah,the jungler can actually influence the lane a lot without ever going near it.

Now I'm not saying that they went 1/9 in 7 minutes due to that(and in fact it's highly unlike to be the case),but picking a weak early jungler can screw your team much more than you'd think.

kaltenashesJan 3, 20162 votes

i agree with you that if the enemy team is lee sin you have to play more careful, if its shyvana then you can breath a little more

if one of your ally lane is 0/3 or more, if bot is around 0/3 to 0/6, what do you expect the jungler to do in this/these lane(s)? nothing, he cant go in there cause the enemy will have an huge advantage over your ally laner(s) that if the enemy read the situation and do play his part well, he'll get a double to triple during your gank, making that lane fall behind even more and the jungler will also fall behind

unless you got make a 2 man gank on a 1vs1 lane or 4 man gank on 2v2 lane, the jungler cant and shoudnt show in these lanes

manbearswineJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

i agree with you that if the enemy team is lee sin you have to play more careful, if its shyvana then you can breath a little more

if one of your ally lane is 0/3 or more, if bot is around 0/3 to 0/6, what do you expect the jungler to do in this/these lane(s)? nothing, he cant go in there cause the enemy will have an huge advantage over your ally laner(s) that if the enemy read the situation and do play his part well, he'll get a double to triple during your gank, making that lane fall behind even more and the jungler will also fall behind

unless you got make a 2 man gank on a 1vs1 lane or 4 man gank on 2v2 lane, the jungler cant and shoudnt show in these lanes

My whole point wasn't about actual ganks at all,simply that having a jungler with a strong early in a game means he can affect lanes without ever going near them,having to play more carefully is a disadvantage,and like any disadvantage it can tip the lane in the favor of your opponents,meaning that it is in fact possible for a jungler to influence a lane simply with his pick,without ever even going near that lane.

kaltenashesJan 4, 20161 votes

i kinda went off... my point was that some off meta pick tend to have pretty bad clears in the early game, and some cant secure a kill 'til lvl 6, and while he's leveling up in the jungle, his allies are still facing the enemy every single second....

Zyra is a good off-meta pick, her plants can tank the monsters for her, and as long as she kites, she can pretty much gank lvl 3 (like xin,lee,udyr,vi) if she lands her snare the enemy will burn a summ or die...

i think that Karma could also become a strong early game pick, her R+W can regenerate her health and works in jungle monsters

manbearswineJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

i kinda went off... my point was that some off meta pick tend to have pretty bad clears in the early game, and some cant secure a kill 'til lvl 6, and while he's leveling up in the jungle, his allies are still facing the enemy every single second....

That's not exactly what I was talking about,some off meta junglers have good early clears,and some champions with poor clear have solid gank pressure.

Take amumu for example,I guess most people wouldn't see him as a trollpick,but until level 6 his gank pressure isn't much(que a bunch of people to brag about how they go 7/0 on amumu's early game all the time,go figure why they are bronze),even if he does have a solid clear many people might see him on the enemy team and get constantly in their opponents face.

Hell,speaking of karma,if I see an amumu on the enemy team when playing karma mid,I will shove them under their tower and poke them while they are trying to cs,that's not something I'll be doing vs a lee sin,or even against a jungle bard(assuming he can clear),it's not about how serious the pick is,it's about how much early pressure it has(though,to be fair,this is often tied to competitive viability).

is a good off-meta pick, her plants can tank the monsters for her, and as long as she kites, she can pretty much gank lvl 3 (like xin,lee,udyr,vi) if she lands her snare the enemy will burn a summ or die...

Sigh,no. I actually play jungle zyra on occasion,and on top of the her regular issues(is a cheese pick which is just all around bad if the enemy team is half-coordinated and knows what she is capable of) her ganks are weak,her snare is slow,has a small hitbox,has a short duration to make things worse she has a crap base ms and due to her low defensive capabilities and hp,you need to be very careful not to get jumped on when ganking(so no going around the enemy team,only flanking,and outright avoiding assassins and things with a lot of damage and mobility(like riven)),she has a decent clear but is still very vulnerable in the jungle,she can scale decently into the lategame(if the enemy team doesn't feel like playing around her,which they generally don't,even if her kit has more holes in it than swiss cheese) and help if the laner isn't too mobile/bursty and is playing very aggressive,but overall she's just bad and you're better off with amumu or malphite,who offer most of her strengths+some strengths of their own with greatly reduced weaknesses.

i think that could also become a strong early game pick, her R+W can regenerate her health and works in jungle monsters

Thing about karma is that she doesn't scale too well into late but as a jungler doesn't have an amazing early either,maybe in certain comps though...if she can clear.

aura trifireJan 4, 20161 votes

Well if u are playing nidalee and u manage to land that spear onto enemy adc...

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 3, 20162 votes

Odds are, they're getting ganked cause you have no map presence or lane pressure and it IS the JG fault for at least half those deaths. That they're bad and feeding just makes it worse.

TurquoiseYoshiJan 3, 20166 votes

If neither jungler is there, then I wouldn't say that the jungler is at fault. Yes, if one jungler is there and one isn't, that's one thing, but if neither are there then it's just a 2v2.