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An important tactic nobody seems to want to use (or learn to use)

afmghost·5/27/2018, 3:28:46 AM·25 votes·11,970 views

It may be a bronze thing, but I have seen so many people whine and complain to me when I flee from an already lost fight before they do. I figure that's a little less gold that they get, and I get a chance to heal up, shop, and help hold the line when we return. Except nobody seems to want to do that. They'd rather continue fighting the almost certainly doomed fight and play the blame game when the enemy scores an ace. In a way, League is a lot like poker: Knowing how to maximize the payout of a winning hand is important, but it's just as important to know when to fold and cut losses from a losing hand too. If things get dicey, get out of the fight! If necessary, get the tank to run in, stay behind, and let everyone else flee, or get their team to chase your elusive player, something. If you're more doubtful about your success than you are confident, don't commit. It's that simple.

37 Comments

Daniel Paunov5/27/2018, 10:32:51 AM8 votes

Seriously, there are so many times when I'm ≥ 95% sure the result of the fight will be enemy team getting an ace and run. And of course, because we were "definitely going to win that 5vs5 against an enemy team with 2 overfed champions (0 on our team)", following me running is ? ping spam and "report <me> for no help/troll/etc".

Also, if I had a quarter of a freaking penny for every time someone used ? ping as "WTF ARE YOU DOING YOU F---ING DUMBASS" (i.e: not as "ss") or for flame after running from a fight like that, then I wouldn't be playing on a crappy laptop and with crappy internet.

Murl0ugh5/27/2018, 1:38:26 PM4 votes

Happens in Silver, too. Willing to bet it goes up to at least Gold.

Here let me just throw our chance at a comeback and after we fail I will find the person who doesn't die and use them as a scapegoat for why we lost this game. Shit happens all the time, especially in ranked

Vlada Cut5/27/2018, 10:47:44 AM2 votes

Let the tanks and die and then 4v5 while he's waiting to respawn or let the enemy contest Baron/Elder with higher success? No thanks, I'd rather not have anyone on my team engage at all and look for a much better/appealing opportunity to fight them.

lntentFeed5/27/2018, 10:12:39 PM2 votes

I agree bros. Something I've been experimenting with in sandbox mode is this:

When game starts, buy a support item for the passive gold. Next, unlock your screen (it's scary, I know), and pan around to your team. Don't leave the fountain. When you notice that they enemy is taking advantage of a seeming 4 v 5, tell your teammates to play safer. Eventually, each of your teammates should have a few deaths. At that point, accuse them of feeding. Once all your towers are down, farm very safely from base and try to bait someone to chase you into your fountain and you will get the kill. In the end, you should have decent farm and perfect KDA.

You're welcome.

MorganFreemanBot5/27/2018, 4:38:54 PM2 votes

There are basically two important factors to fighting.

'#1: Was someone caught, and are they absolutely going to die?

If someone gets caught out, and there's all of about 0 chances of their survival, you need to know how to not throw yourself away. I see people - fairly often - try to help an absolutely doomed team mate and die themselves. Generally speaking you're fine to throw some long ranged CC to attempt to peel and give them an opening, but do not get involved beyond that.

'#2: On the flip side, was it an intentionally picked fight?

I'm a jungle main. I'm a jungle main who prefers tanks (Zac, Sion) and fighters / bruisers (Olaf, Rek'sai, Trundle).

Of the champions I play, I've a very strong grasp of most of them. I'm aware of how much damage I can take and dish out, and given I've played for years I've a pretty strong read on how much damage most champs will deal to me (except Irelia, qq).

I will, at times, pick fights which look rather sketchy. Dueling a full health Xin at level 2, while I'm at 75% on Olaf at level 2, looks like a fight I'm going to lose; but it's not. The way the champions and their strengths play out, that's a fight Olaf wins 100% of the time baring outside factors. Likewise, picking a fight as 25% health Sion while my shield is up but the enemy mobility is down.

I'd say I can gauge when myself and my laner(s) will win a fight.. probably 90% of the team, at least in the early and mid game. But a lot of these fights look close, a lot of them look like baits, and a lot of the time my allies won't help me / cut and run too early, and I just end up dying for free / in a 1 for 1 trade.

To try and put this more succinctly:

Part of improving in league is pushing yourself into uncomfortable territory and learning how to navigate it. Playing safe is a skill all its own but often times - especially in normals - it's worth it to 'risk it' to get a better grasp of champions and situations. Fights which look doomed to fail can be easily won, and damning picks turned entirely around, with practice and confidence.

Don't feed and throw your life away, but push yourself to be a better player and pull off more impressive things. Also understand when the chips and down and you have to fight; when it's worth it to fight, and potentially die, in order to help your team get through.

Saezio5/27/2018, 7:18:44 PM1 votes

The solution for this is simple in the low elos but it is a multistep process.

Destroy your lane, seriously, you need to showcase your skill to your teammates.
Be vocal about calls, objectives, warding and pressure. Tell your teammates what you want them to do 1 min prior to the time you want it done. Not "OMG why no wards toplane" instead "You will get ganked within the next 2 minutes top buddy, place a control ward so jg and mid can collapse faster than enemy"
Ping whatever you feel is important multiple times just to be sure everyone has noticed. So when your "prophecy" ends up happening your team is like "shit i should have listened to him"
In mid/early late game pinpoint to your allies what skills of the enemy they should keep track of and which of their CDs they should ONLY blow defensively and reactively.
Now that they all listen to your calls, make the right macro calls, especially in low elos gold-silver-bronze EVERY game is winable by macro calling without ever actually 5v5 fighting because the enemy will be so slow to cooperate and counter your call. So basically you need to establish a trusting relationship with your team, even as a support, they will respect you if they see that you clearly are a level above them in all the plays.

Hyquiem5/27/2018, 7:24:31 PM1 votes

I agree people need to learn when to flee, seriously it only makes the game harder to win. “It’s not all about fighting”

ValyrianBlade5/27/2018, 7:26:02 PM1 votes

It's worse when I don't go in the first place because I know it's a bad fight and they fight anyways then complain...

3TWarrior5/27/2018, 7:35:06 PM1 votes

good ol' season four, "olaf, you're the tank! Why are you running away!?"

mages and marksmen on the front-line or not engaging at all

people who don't seem to understand what targets need healing and who doesn't

good times XD

ExpStealer5/27/2018, 8:22:45 PM1 votes

Coutless times do I play a tank and would just run in to save my squishy teammate and they think I'm trying to make a fight so we both die. Then in 75% of the time I get the "Why?" treatment... And my answer is (Gandalf voice): Run, you fools.

Hong Kong Annie5/27/2018, 8:32:22 PM1 votes

You should probably fight with the team no matter what. Unless you are confident in your ability to solo carry 1v5 your best chance of winning is as a team. It makes little difference if one or two of your team make it out alive if all 5 of the enemy are still up, and if all 5 aren't up then sticking in the fight and playing it out might have won your team the fight or at least take down another member or two.

SanKakU5/27/2018, 9:39:58 PM1 votes

It depends. Sometimes people do nothing but watch and then die too. Other times they jump in with the 'crazy player' and they pick up 1-3 kills when they go down. I think the thing I hate most about playing non-tanks in jungle is my allies too often want to put in the least amount of effort possible to pick up kills, which results in me doing most of the work and not getting the job done due to being perpetually outnumbered.

ESeTyRC5/27/2018, 9:45:42 PM1 votes

A good analogy.

Then there's the people that "fold" EVERY single teamfight.

afmghost5/27/2018, 10:17:51 PM1 votes

To all of those who question this (or are butthurt because I called you out):

I agree that there is a fine line between retreating too easily and dying without need. A big chunk of the challenge here is finding the right balance between the two. This also goes with my one thread I made last week about players refusing to learn. Many players go headfirst into certain death and play the blame game when they die. Don't be that guy.

I'm looking at you, Yasuo

Mokuto Bunshi5/27/2018, 10:23:26 PM1 votes

@OP Let me show you something, A fight I could have lost but waited for cooldowns by RUNNING and turning to win. I usually run from unfavorable fights, but I DO like to turn to win them when ahead:

https://youtu.be/BVc8nAeqwb4

I suspect people try doing this but don't take into account how strong they actually are and/or what cooldowns each team has.

Ryouhi5/27/2018, 11:12:37 PM1 votes

Similar to how everyone suddenly complains that supports are OP, but noone bothers focusing them [sg-lux-2]

No wonder they're gonna keep shielding their teammates over and over then [slayer-jinx-catface]

Nubulas5/28/2018, 5:26:09 AM1 votes

I hear this a lot. Usually when I engage on an enemy with a team mate approaching and then right when the fight starts, the team mates runs away and I die or the other team shows up to help right when my team is running away. And then they start the flaming about not feeding.

Once that shit starts, I buy all armor and MR even as the ADC. I wait for the fight to start, use abilities , ult and click on the base.

And I am STILL NOT the first person running away!!!!!!!!!!. I swear my team will flash to get behind me.

FUll tank ASHE is hilarious. W R E run.......

TwoHeadedFreak5/28/2018, 1:36:14 PM1 votes

Whilst i wholeheartedly agree, when it's a 2 vs 2 and you're the stronger two. So many times the other guy has run away on me. I die, and then the other guy dies because he couldn't get away. If he stayed, we would've won the fight.

Arammus5/28/2018, 4:44:05 PM1 votes

just dont SAY that you will obviously lose this fight. its negative attitude/flame and can get you punished. sadly.

but yea youre right. in bronze ppl tend to fight fight fight. ppl have no idea about comps, scale, objectives etc. i saw anivia play toplane vs rene and wondering why they are 0/8 after 6min, because they kept fighting as one of the weakest earlier game (MID)laners vs one of the strongest top laners in early. and then they started to blame the nautilus jungle because he didnt come top to get 1combo'd by the fed rene

Telephone Booth5/31/2018, 5:21:25 AM1 votes

The most important tactic that bronze players don't use; keep an eye on the minimap. You don't need missing pings you newblets. You have a map right there on your screen. You can see what I see... lazy bastards. Just too much brainpower for them to look at a minimap while laning.

Best Vi Earth5/27/2018, 12:34:51 PM1 votes

sad to say thats the wrong thing to do. even if your team is a bunch of monkeys you have to fight with them to even have a chance. the best way to put it is its bronze anything can happen.

LordGeovanni5/27/2018, 3:33:29 PM1 votes

Most people i see who run, run based on their own spells cooldown and dont want to use auto attacks on safe back line champions when they could auto and they win the fight, use spells and win the fight instead of holding ult, help your front line kite out instead of running by yourself when often on blue side the front line cant see their own allies due to the health and skill bars. League is like poker in some resepcts. But in legaue you have to take more risks with fights and try to get something out of it other wise you just end up with stalemates at towers which ends up nice and fine for the adc/ mages but then the bruisers tanks assassins end up sitting down doing nothing but getting poked for long periods of time that sucks for them but engage the fight the follow up rarely comes at all and if so doesnt come quickly despite tanks having massive wind ups on engages or when they go off to split push so that the can actively do something the carries just run and decide never to apply pressure so the split push is never successful and ends up with a 1v5 while the rest of the team takes the opportunity to recall isntead of push their lane with no champions in it.

WrÆth5/27/2018, 3:39:50 PM1 votes

This is one of the only useful tips I've ever seen on the boards. Last night when I was duoing with some friends, one of the newer players made this exact mistake. He was playing Irelia and our mundo started trying to 1v2 contest scuttle vs a 7/0 Udyr and his Cho'Gath. Of course he ran in and died, but then my duo went in as well and died, and then blamed it on the mundo. Just because other people do stupid shit doesn't mean you need to get pulled into their stupid shit. If you lose a game and you don't once get pulled into a bad fight, you did everything you could, and you can be happy with yourself.

Snowman Arc5/27/2018, 4:36:09 PM1 votes

Well, if a fight is lost and you are the only one alive, or most of your team is low and will die soon, it's most wise to fall back and try to defend, if you're a carry that can clear waves.

It's important to note, though, that sometimes, a fight might not be completely lost. From a carry perspective, there are some situations where you can retaliate and dish out some damage and kill people before fleeing. You gotta know the limits of your champion to do that.

It all comes down to correct decision making. Don't listen to what your bronze angry teammates tell you. Watch a replay of a lost fight and try to evaluate what you could have done better, if you should flee or if you could have stayed a bit longer and maybe take down some people.