Is there enough incentive and reward for Positive Behaviour? What does a 'Banner' really get you?

Lonely Flame·1/4/2016, 6:29:43 PM·6 votes·1,534 views

Hey all, before you immediately downvote all I ask if you take a read. If you still feel like downvoting then by all means go ahead.

I've started hanging around the Player Behaviour forums more recently and admittedly, it is pretty amusing that almost 90% of the threads are people complaining they got banned. But the more I read the threads and the more I play I realise one of the reasons people act the way they do is because they feel there's no incentive to. I've had more than my fair share of normal games where a Gold, Plat, and even in one case a Diamond player, were abusive, and when speaking to them after the game their response is 'there's no point'. And it got me thinking: There really isn't much in it for people to behave.

With ranked you get rewarded based on your tier of skill (in theory anyway). The better you are, the higher you climb. And the higher you climb, the more rewards you get. There's:

  • Summoner Icons
  • Banner Trim's
  • Loading Screen Boarders with division makers for extra specificity on how good you were
  • Invite and Friend Request Flairs
  • A Victorious Skin and a potential free champ if they're unowned
  • Not only that, you have a Ward that changes based on your Ranked Team Wins.

Look at all of that. You earn all of that. Sure it may not seem like a lot, but you're getting rewarded for how good you were.

Now when you look at the Honour Initiative, what are the rewards there? You get a tiny banner on the corner of your Loading Screen Border. But here's the kicker: You can only display one at a time.

So even if you're being nice enough to your own team on a regular basis to have the Teammate Banner, even if you're being helpful enough to earn the Mentor Banner, even if you're working cohesively enough to earn the Leader Banner, even if you're being nice enough to the enemy team that you're eligible enough for the Honourable Opponent Banner, you only get to display one of these.

Now let me clarify: I'm NOT comparing Ranked to Honour. They're 2 completely different things. What I am comparing is effort to reward. The guy who maintains his Gold Rank all season gets those listed above, but the player who maintains his Honourable Opponent banner all year gets...to keep his Honourable Opponent Banner.

So what am I suggesting? Well simple stuff really. I've seen people in the past requesting exclusive skins in same way as the Victorious skin, and while sure that would be nice, it seems a beyond excess. But on the topic of skins, the funny thing with this is Riot DOES give a random skin to players who don't get banned, but this is to everyone, not just those who have earned Banners. They're treated like everyone else. The people are making the effort to try and be better in the community are rewarded in the same way as the guy who makes no effort.

But a Summoner Icon? A ward? Doesn't seem like that big of an ask. Heck, just even being able to display more than one Banner would be nice. Think about it. If you go into a game and you see all 4 Banners, one on each corner, on a single players border, you know that player is: nice, helpful, makes good calls, tries to keep the team working together, ect.

So yeh. TL:DR There should be more incentive to behave and those that are Honour should receive better rewards

40 Comments

Daen1/4/2016, 7:23:40 PM4 votes

I've started hanging around the Player Behaviour forums more recently and admittedly, it is pretty amusing that almost 90% of the threads are people complaining they got banned. But the more I read the threads and the more I play I realise one of the reasons people act the way they do is because they feel there's no incentive to. I've had more than my fair share of normal games where a Gold, Plat, and even in one case a Diamond player, were abusive, and when speaking to them after the game their response is 'there's no point'. And it got me thinking: There really isn't much in it for people to behave.

Incentives to move people from toxic > nontoxic are NOT the same thing as incentives to move people from nontoxic > positive.

So overall, the idea of incentive for positivity is a complex one. I think that, to an extent, people focus on the two extremes (toxic and positive), and in reality almost everyone is somewhere in between the two edges of the continuum. The vast majority of Riot's current player behavior initiatives are meant to do two things:

  1. Move slightly toxic players towards neutral
  2. Remove extremely toxic players

These systems are, for the most part, extremely good at accomplishing these two goals, and I'm not sure there's much debate to be had in that regard. The obvious part that's missing, of course, is an incentive for positivity; this is what I'll address in the rest of my reply, but I just wanted to make sure we're all aware of the distinction between general incentive and focused incentive.


Now when you look at the Honour Initiative, what are the rewards there? You get a tiny banner on the corner of your Loading Screen Border. But here's the kicker: You can only display one at a time.

But a Summoner Icon? A ward? Doesn't seem like that big of an ask. Heck, just even being able to display more than one Banner would be nice. Think about it. If you go into a game and you see all 4 Banners, one on each corner, on a single players border, you know that player is: nice, helpful, makes good calls, tries to keep the team working together, ect.

Honor has a huge number of issues that can't be solved by a reward structure, most notably of which is accuracy. The Honor system is not even remotely accurate enough to facilitate rewards that have actual meaning, and this is basically a gamebreaker until Riot finally gets around to fixing it. The main part there is that, unlike the reporting system, honor isn't checked for validity. Until this happens, rewards for Honor unfortunately can't happen.

the funny thing with this is Riot DOES give a random skin to players who don't get banned, but this is to everyone, not just those who have earned Banners. They're treated like everyone else. The people are making the effort to try and be better in the community are rewarded in the same way as the guy who makes no effort.

Completely agreed, and this is something Riot does in a lot of different areas of their community. There's a huge focus on making the bad not bad, but almost no focus whatsoever on making the neutral good or rewarding the good for being awesome.

PIMPSMOOTH1/4/2016, 6:35:07 PM3 votes

No complaints here.

On the flip side, would you like to see a banner/mark on a player's boarder if they have been permanently banned on another account previously?

IcyPepper1/4/2016, 11:48:30 PM3 votes

Being a better person is a reward in itself.

Samus721/4/2016, 6:40:57 PM2 votes

But the OP overlooks the alternative. Bad behavior gets you removed from the game.

I've do not have any ribbons. But as long as I behave, I can play the game right up to the day I die on my original account. No one who has been banned for being a jerk can claim that.

PROJECT Merz1/4/2016, 6:39:51 PM2 votes

RITO THIS GUY IS ON TO SOMETHING GIV EHIM A COOKIE RIGHT NOW!

Sky of Smiles1/4/2016, 6:39:24 PM1 votes

I get reported for BS reasons and lost my banners several times. Its not an incentive issue because theres plenty of it. Its just common sense - you can't get along with everybody. You're not always going to have games where you do well and it may offend someone. Even in games where you're doing well, people may get offended. You can just go into a game and say GLHF and someone on your team will just report you. It happens.

You're going to lose games because of trolls and as someone who believes in karma they'll be punished for it eventually in one way or another. In the meantime, stop being a B about it. This ain't EU.

Mama Soraka1/12/2016, 3:18:50 PM1 votes

The honor system is a joke. Since its based on an honor/game metric I am completely unable to ever earn a crest because I already had thousands of games played before the initiative started. I would need to earn 2-5 honor/game for potentially hundreds or maybe thousands (Kindred I dunno) of games to have a chance to see one. Worse yet, nobody even gives out honors, anymore. I had a crest near the beginning of the initiative when the requirements were relaxed a bit and people were actually honoring each other, but when they upped the honor/game ratio I lost it, and I've never seen it again.

TL;DR I'm salty about crests because I can't get one

Taunme1/5/2016, 2:29:01 AM1 votes

His point here is:

  1. There are bad consequences for toxic players.
  2. There are good consequences for good players.
  3. But there are no desirable consequences for nice players or 'Honorable' players.

In other words, this game is set up for toxicity. Either it being people who are toxic for their low elo/rank, people who are negative at their teammates for doing poorly one game, or just being negative for no reason at all. There is no setup in this game where you can actually feel good about being a nice person at all. There are only negative consequences. This is unhealthy for any community, by the way. This is why LoL has such a terrible community in the first place. Plus the fact that anonymity is a big factor. Riot needs to fix this.

FuntaC1/5/2016, 7:33:31 AM1 votes

Believe me when I say that I do not mean to diminish the thought you put into this, but, having skipped reading because the conclusion to the title is the same regardless of text, why not simply ask for more permanent icon reminders of an accumulation of good reports? You can inspect the numbers on your summoner profile page, so what you seek is an in-game way of showing off your +1 score.

Sure, why not? I'd bet Riot could charge a lot for the privilege of having many boasting icons appear in the load screen. I'd also like to be able to browse snippets of recent forums posts per player during the loading and game over screens.

MymMbzKIgC1/8/2016, 6:04:54 PM1 votes

there will never be any tangible rewards for positive behavior because it's all about money. why else do you think riot focuses the most on verbal abuse and nothing else? they don't want little kids who are going to be spending their parents money to be in an environment that is bad. they want more money! so they're not going to give you shit that costs money because they want you to spend money! why is it so hard to get permaban? because of money!

The Whamboozler1/8/2016, 6:20:10 PM1 votes

Honor does nothing. I had a banner for over a year. First a yellow, then a green. The only thing I saw from it? People in pre-game lobby would say "oh man, I haven't seen one of those ever". No bonuses. No perks. No incentives to stay honorable or be a kind player. Then to top it all off, I got chat-banned and my banner DIDN'T GO AWAY. Do I feel the ban was deserved? Partially. I always try to play shot caller when the team seems to need one and get people working together and focusing objectives. It's how I got the honor banner in the first place. It also inevitably leads to stubborn, tilting or just plain immature people flaming me for "telling them what to do" or whatever they want to think. When I myself am having a bad day, I tend to argue with them, or throw insults back at them when they attack me personally. So I guess the chat ban was deserved... but that just means that you can be what riot considers rude or toxic enough to get a chat ban and STILL be flagged as honorable. The system doesn't even reliably show who on your team is a polite player!

Eventually... MONTHS down the line, long after I'd stopped arguing so much with people in games... my banner flew away. The reason? Because no one uses honor anymore. It was a failed system that accomplished nothing because there was nothing more to it than a little chart tracking numbers. It was a failure as a means to de-toxifying the community. The systems in place now are 110% negative... and faulty! Lately, I tend to muteall in every game, just to not deal with all the rage and the stress. I still get reported occasionally. EVERYONE does. You can not say a word all game and eat a report by an angry premade who feels you "ruined their game".

If there is incentive to be a GOOD player, not just punishment for being a terrible one... people will actively strive for it. Otherwise rude or neutral players will act better out of greed. They'll want new stuff. Not ALL of them, of course... but some.

Deep Terror Nami1/4/2016, 6:52:16 PM1 votes

They are completely aware that the Honor Initiative sucks and they are replacing it in the future. Will possibly be a main focus this year once they're done with the new Champ Select.