Boards›Player Behavior

Calling Riot Tantram, please respond

Chønklord·3/30/2017, 6:56:43 AM·6 votes·2,243 views

Edit: for those needing more clarity on this post, please go to https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/fwsZB15t-calling-riot-tantram-please-respond?comment=0001000000000001 for the relevant context  

 

##@Riot Tantram: I would appreciate if you could shed some clarity on my confusion (and the confusion a lot of players on the boards here are having) in regard to 'report calling / lobbying for reports'.

As a reply to a comment you made re: report calling, and a follow-up to a question from another poster:

sixdogman (NA) Also a single 'report xx' isn't punishable sure, but if someone does it constantly?

What if you genuinely believe a player is doing something wrong (int feeding, etc), and feel you need to report them in your game. Now let's say you do this on a regular, continual basis; not with any intent of malice or purposeful harassment or any other negative, toxic chat involved -- you simply feel that "justice must be served" by reporting 'wrongdoers'.

Maybe out of 20 games a week, you've reported at least one person in 10 of those games. That's 10 reports a week.

Let's say 50% are false reports and the other half are accurate. The IFS takes the false ones and throws them out (because you say the system is 'very good' at filtering out BS reports); the other ones get pushed through the system as legitimate reports. So now approximately 5 false reports a week are being filed.

Where in this scenario does the system kick in and punish our 'good intentioned' reporter? Is there a limit to the number of reports? Does it punish them at all?

Report calling by itself isn't punishable Riot says, unless it's used as a tool for harassment and/or supplemented with other forms of 'real' harassment.

Riot NaKyle (NA) submitted a day ago If a player used asking for reports as a leaping off point for actual harassment, that's when we'd blow the whistle.

and what you just said in this thread:

Riot Tantram (NA) - about 8 hours ago [. . .] But, asking for reports CAN be a way of harassing players. In that case, the system can detect that you are using it as a means of harassment [. . .]

Also, you've previously stated that a player's report 'weight' does not lose value based on the number of reports they make.

Riot Tantram (NA) 2 days ago Confirmed. Reports do not lose value based upon the number of times you report players.

and

Riot Tantram (NA) about a month ago [. . .] As long as you are making a valid report, it counts. Your reports don't stop being factored in if they don't punish a player.

Where is the accountability in your algorithms for players that lobby reports on others based on a false sense of justice and good intentions -- and sure, may actually catch some 'bad apples' -- but also unintentionally falsely report innocent players on a continunal basis? Are these players then considered 'toxic' and worthy of punishment for 'report calling abuse' or not? Since you've stated a player's reports never lose value (based on the rule 'if report > 0 then flag account'), _every 'report call' made by this well-intentioned player will be counted, and multiplied over the course of dozens of games or more.

You say the system recognizes the validity of incoming reports against the reportee, but how does it handle the (in)validity of well intentioned, but misguided ones by the reporter (in terms of penalties)? Where is the break-point? How many unintentional false reports is too many?

35 Comments

EndlessSorcerer3/30/2017, 2:05:05 PM2 votes

Riot Tantram has expanded on the topic here

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1NGnychF,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-29T21:04:59.627+0000)

That post can be a little confusing.

The post was made to address confusion players had, thinking that asking for reports was akin to hate speech / zero tolerance and directly resulted in a ban. This is not true. But, asking for reports CAN be a way of harassing players. In that case, the system can detect that you are using it as a means of harassment. A single 'report xx' isn't going to cause a penalty. But calling someone a feeder for having a poor game, telling people to report them for int'ing, etc .. is all going to be considered negative.

Riot doesn't define what is acceptable/unacceptable. It is the player base that decides that. Our systems learn from our players. Just like how players taught the system that GGEZ is pretty BM, players also taught the system that 'report xxx for int'ing' when they are not, is also negative.

I admit that the recent post was rather confusing.

HalcyonDweller3/30/2017, 11:28:46 PM2 votes

@BoostedBonobo

You have a really good point with asking for these clarifications, and I want to know the answer just as badly as you do, but why do you feel the need to insult everybody who misunderstands your question? Some of them are expressing genuine ideas, and are not attacking you or your question.

I've been reading through your comments on this thread and I've seen many instances of belittling, sarcasm, and other forms of harassment. There is no need for that. You don't have to respond to them. Or if you feel the need to, you certainly could respond in a kinder manner.

It's just like when a player in game might be afraid of punishment after reports are lobbied against them just for doing poorly, people are having to hazard your temper just to contribute their genuine thoughts and questions to this discussion. Why do you keep picking fights when there is no reason to?

deathgod53/30/2017, 7:26:12 AM1 votes

Report calling by itself isn't punishable Riot says, unless it's used as a tool for harassment and/or supplemented with other forms of 'real' harassment.

report calling isn't the same thing as falsely reporting(which is not punishable). There is no system in place that goes after those who falsely report as what constitutes as harassment is 100 percent subjective. With report calling you have to think about a scenario like this:

[00:04:50] [master Yi ganks lane, mordekaiser gets a double kill on yi and the lane saltyMain10001101110] [00:05:12]saltyMain10001101110: report yi, trolling [00:05:13]saltyMain10001101110: report yi flaming [00:05:14]saltyMain10001101110: report yi burning down my house [00:05:15]saltyMain10001101110: report yi [00:05:16]saltyMain10001101110: report yi [00:05:17]saltyMain10001101110: report yi [00:05:18]saltyMain10001101110: report yi [00:05:19]saltyMain10001101110: report yi

It is this type of report calling that is seen as harassment. So you don't have to worry.